A Glorious Tale of Dice Karma [Archive] - Wizards Community

A Glorious Tale of Dice Karma [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
im_robertb
12-04-06, 10:00 AM I love my dice. They have served me long and well. Somehow, they are projecting an aura of my will onto the players' dice as well. I always roll in front of my players (except Spot checks and the like), so they know I'm not fudging the rolls, and know their characters, who live by the dice, shall die by the dice.

I have a player, let us call him Joe. My group is half newbies and half old hands; Joe is one of the old hands. I didn't check his character sheet until they'd played through 1st level. His attack bonus was 1 too high the whole time, and upon reaching second level, he rolled a d10 HD- while playing a half-orc monk, because he thought he knew the rules and was wrong. I made him roll a d8 for his second hit die, as he should - and he rolled a 1. I now monitor the consistency of characters' stats.

We had one more session, and then he was absent for the next. I had someone run the half-orc monk, a player who, due to his awesomeness, now plays in my group. The monk climbed up a ledge to attack an archer, without support, and through unfortunate rolling, was dropped to negative hit points. He would have died if the archer hadn't negotiated with the party for their friend's life.

He was absent the next session, and the same guy (let's call him Sam) ran his character. This was the fight with the BBEG, an orc cleric and his barbarian bodyguard. The paladin and monk charged the barbarian, only the monk hit for decent damage. The barbarian five foot stepped. *roll* Does an 18 hit? Yes. *rolls 1d12+7* The die comes up a 12. I knew this would lead to an upset player, but I must let the dice stand as they are rolled. Add 7 for 19 damage. How many hit points does a 10 constitution, 2nd level monk who rolled a 1 on his second hit die have?

Just few enough to go from full health to stone-cold dead in one round. The players were shocked, not only fearing for their own characters, but knowing Joe would be upset. I told Sam that Joe was not allowed to be upset with him; nothing Sam did got the monk killed, just bad luck. If Joe wanted to be angry at someone or something, he was only allowed to be angry at my black d12. Not to mention that everyone accepted it was dice karma.

So he made a new character at the midpoint of 2nd level, and everyone else had just hit 3rd - dying does need to hurt. At his new character's first session, he showed up (complaining of having died and being 2nd level, of course). Rolled the 2nd hit die for his new gnome druid.

HIS green d8 came up a 1. This character, being a high constitution gnome, has survived thus far. The party has, however, had 2 sessions of easier combats. Joe was present for the new druid's inaugural session. Our last session, which was also our last until the holidays are over, he missed the first 2 hours of, and showed up only for the 3rd. I let him know the XP leveled up his druid, he asked to roll hp. I reminded him he could either take Fixed Hit Points per Hit Die (in this case, treat it as if you rolled a 4 on a d8), or roll, and be bound by his roll if he did. He opted to roll.

HIS green d8 came up a 1 again. And I'm going to stick with the plan I've had for a bit and kick things off in 2007 with something a little rough.
Nitan
12-04-06, 11:05 AM Joe should be ticked off at Sam as Sam has no idea on how to play a Monk and because of that, got his character killed.
im_robertb
12-04-06, 11:07 AM When the party isn't aware of the cleric's presence yet (behind a 20' pillar and not casting) and sees only the barbarian, I think that's the way to go about things, not to mention the way Joe would have done it.
wordserpent
12-04-06, 11:27 AM I think that you should stop allowing one player to run another player's character. If a player is late or can't make a game, than you should find some way to keep that character in the background, i.e. "Joe is watching the horses.", or some such excuse.

This will keep Joe from leveling, and why should he? Joe isn't there to actively experience things so there is no reason for him to be rewarded with experience points for some other player's actions.

Now as for hit points; as a DM I generally try to let my players get decent hit points because they will need every one of them. One option that I use is to let a player roll for their character's new hit points when they level and if they get anything below one-half of their full hit points for that level, I just give them half. Example; Brother Joe the monk gains a level and rolls a d8. He rolls a '1', so I give him the default of '4' hit points. If brother Joe would have rolled a '2' or a '3' on the d8 he still would have been granted 4 hit points.

I generally like to use the 'gaining fixed hit points' method as presented in the DMG pg198. as it sort of keeps everyone on the same level and neutralizes poor die rolls for hit points. However, many DM's find this to be to 'cookie cutter'.
Elessara
12-04-06, 11:52 AM I've never really understood the concept of "death should hurt" if your character dies through, as you say, bad luck. Especially how the death of your previous character affects the new character, two characters who presumably have little to no connection to each other - other than the player behind the wheel.

It's like this:
Bob the Fighter is engaged in combat with Urg the Orc.
Urg (the DM) rolls a natural 20 followed up by a dice roll that confirms the critical.
Urg (the DM) rolls really well on the damage.
Bob the Fighter dies.
DM: Poor Bob the Fighter is dead, roll up a new character. You have Sally Sorceress? Ok, but because Bob the Fighter died (through no fault of your own), Sally Sorceress (who didn't know Bob the Fighter and had never even heard of him) must start out 1 level lower than Bob the Fighter.

Or even:
Player B has their character do something stupid that gets Player A's character killed.
Player A gets punished by having their next character 1 level lower because Player B did something stupid.

Ok I'll amend that by saying if the person has their character do something incredibly stupid and their character dies because of it, ok death should hurt. Even more so if it kills the entire party.

Or I could just be bitter!

Anyway, you gave him a choice between a fixed number and rolling. He chose the roll, therefore he chose the consequences. This one DM I have has a slightly more complicated method. You can't roll below your CON modifier. So, as a fighter, if my char has an 18 CON and I roll a 3, then I get a 4 because my CON mod is 4, to which I then add my mod for a total of 8 hitpoints.

Ele~
Kradlo
12-04-06, 04:45 PM Just out of curiosity, do your Fixed Hit Points always equal one-half the maximum? If so, you're granting them below average hit points (since the average is 0.5 above half max), putting them below the NPCs and monsters. That makes them choose between getting stuck with whatever they roll, no matter how bad, or taking a safe, but below average choice.

I've never liked rolling hit points. Back in the old days, you rolled all your hit dice, including your first. You could get hosed with a character with 1 measly hit point, and that included as a fighter.

In this case, the gnome sounds like he's permanently hosed. The best the player can hope for is a quick death so he can roll up a new character. Is that the solution you want?

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
im_robertb 12-04-06, 10:00 AM	I love my dice. They have served me long and well. Somehow, they are projecting an aura of my will onto the players' dice as well. I always roll in front of my players (except Spot checks and the like), so they know I'm not fudging the rolls, and know their characters, who live by the dice, shall die by the dice. I have a player, let us call him Joe. My group is half newbies and half old hands; Joe is one of the old hands. I didn't check his character sheet until they'd played through 1st level. His attack bonus was 1 too high the whole time, and upon reaching second level, he rolled a d10 HD- while playing a half-orc monk, because he thought he knew the rules and was wrong. I made him roll a d8 for his second hit die, as he should - and he rolled a 1. I now monitor the consistency of characters' stats. We had one more session, and then he was absent for the next. I had someone run the half-orc monk, a player who, due to his awesomeness, now plays in my group. The monk climbed up a ledge to attack an archer, without support, and through unfortunate rolling, was dropped to negative hit points. He would have died if the archer hadn't negotiated with the party for their friend's life. He was absent the next session, and the same guy (let's call him Sam) ran his character. This was the fight with the BBEG, an orc cleric and his barbarian bodyguard. The paladin and monk charged the barbarian, only the monk hit for decent damage. The barbarian five foot stepped. roll Does an 18 hit? Yes. rolls 1d12+7 The die comes up a 12. I knew this would lead to an upset player, but I must let the dice stand as they are rolled. Add 7 for 19 damage. How many hit points does a 10 constitution, 2nd level monk who rolled a 1 on his second hit die have? Just few enough to go from full health to stone-cold dead in one round. The players were shocked, not only fearing for their own characters, but knowing Joe would be upset. I told Sam that Joe was not allowed to be upset with him; nothing Sam did got the monk killed, just bad luck. If Joe wanted to be angry at someone or something, he was only allowed to be angry at my black d12. Not to mention that everyone accepted it was dice karma. So he made a new character at the midpoint of 2nd level, and everyone else had just hit 3rd - dying does need to hurt. At his new character's first session, he showed up (complaining of having died and being 2nd level, of course). Rolled the 2nd hit die for his new gnome druid. HIS green d8 came up a 1. This character, being a high constitution gnome, has survived thus far. The party has, however, had 2 sessions of easier combats. Joe was present for the new druid's inaugural session. Our last session, which was also our last until the holidays are over, he missed the first 2 hours of, and showed up only for the 3rd. I let him know the XP leveled up his druid, he asked to roll hp. I reminded him he could either take Fixed Hit Points per Hit Die (in this case, treat it as if you rolled a 4 on a d8), or roll, and be bound by his roll if he did. He opted to roll. HIS green d8 came up a 1 again. And I'm going to stick with the plan I've had for a bit and kick things off in 2007 with something a little rough.
Nitan 12-04-06, 11:05 AM	Joe should be ticked off at Sam as Sam has no idea on how to play a Monk and because of that, got his character killed.
im_robertb 12-04-06, 11:07 AM	When the party isn't aware of the cleric's presence yet (behind a 20' pillar and not casting) and sees only the barbarian, I think that's the way to go about things, not to mention the way Joe would have done it.
wordserpent 12-04-06, 11:27 AM	I think that you should stop allowing one player to run another player's character. If a player is late or can't make a game, than you should find some way to keep that character in the background, i.e. "Joe is watching the horses.", or some such excuse. This will keep Joe from leveling, and why should he? Joe isn't there to actively experience things so there is no reason for him to be rewarded with experience points for some other player's actions. Now as for hit points; as a DM I generally try to let my players get decent hit points because they will need every one of them. One option that I use is to let a player roll for their character's new hit points when they level and if they get anything below one-half of their full hit points for that level, I just give them half. Example; Brother Joe the monk gains a level and rolls a d8. He rolls a '1', so I give him the default of '4' hit points. If brother Joe would have rolled a '2' or a '3' on the d8 he still would have been granted 4 hit points. I generally like to use the 'gaining fixed hit points' method as presented in the DMG pg198. as it sort of keeps everyone on the same level and neutralizes poor die rolls for hit points. However, many DM's find this to be to 'cookie cutter'.
Elessara 12-04-06, 11:52 AM	I've never really understood the concept of "death should hurt" if your character dies through, as you say, bad luck. Especially how the death of your previous character affects the new character, two characters who presumably have little to no connection to each other - other than the player behind the wheel. It's like this: Bob the Fighter is engaged in combat with Urg the Orc. Urg (the DM) rolls a natural 20 followed up by a dice roll that confirms the critical. Urg (the DM) rolls really well on the damage. Bob the Fighter dies. DM: Poor Bob the Fighter is dead, roll up a new character. You have Sally Sorceress? Ok, but because Bob the Fighter died (through no fault of your own), Sally Sorceress (who didn't know Bob the Fighter and had never even heard of him) must start out 1 level lower than Bob the Fighter. Or even: Player B has their character do something stupid that gets Player A's character killed. Player A gets punished by having their next character 1 level lower because Player B did something stupid. Ok I'll amend that by saying if the person has their character do something incredibly stupid and their character dies because of it, ok death should hurt. Even more so if it kills the entire party. Or I could just be bitter! Anyway, you gave him a choice between a fixed number and rolling. He chose the roll, therefore he chose the consequences. This one DM I have has a slightly more complicated method. You can't roll below your CON modifier. So, as a fighter, if my char has an 18 CON and I roll a 3, then I get a 4 because my CON mod is 4, to which I then add my mod for a total of 8 hitpoints. Ele~
Kradlo 12-04-06, 04:45 PM	Just out of curiosity, do your Fixed Hit Points always equal one-half the maximum? If so, you're granting them below average hit points (since the average is 0.5 above half max), putting them below the NPCs and monsters. That makes them choose between getting stuck with whatever they roll, no matter how bad, or taking a safe, but below average choice. I've never liked rolling hit points. Back in the old days, you rolled all your hit dice, including your first. You could get hosed with a character with 1 measly hit point, and that included as a fighter. In this case, the gnome sounds like he's permanently hosed. The best the player can hope for is a quick death so he can roll up a new character. Is that the solution you want?