A good Cleric raising an evil character [Archive] - Wizards Community

A good Cleric raising an evil character [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Jonah
06-20-05, 04:08 AM Im my campaign one of the characters is a Lawful Evil Samurai. He had been sent on a mission by his Boss but mugged along the way and knocked unconscious. Now although he is LE, he is still honourable and secondly he has completely lost his memory of who and what he was.

He originally was a follower of Bane though he has no recollections of it and during the last game, he died in combat.

Now here's my question. The party are currently in the Dalelands, (Archendale to be precise,) and if they find a Cleric who is willing to bring back the character, would he know the God and the Characters alignment? After all, he is trying to draw the spirit back from Bane and back into the body. In my eyes I think he would know and I doubt a single non evil Cleric in the entire Dales would bring back a follower of Bane.

I suppose a Druid could cast a reincarnate which always proves interesting but can cause problems with the player.

So any suggestions on how to approach it?
Quirriff
06-20-05, 04:18 AM Loosing memories would allow for easy (and realistic) voluntary allignment change.

The Lawful Good Cleric can cast Raise dead and Atonement, and possibly Quest (for a Lawful Good Course), Bingo.
Galaktia
06-20-05, 04:32 AM Just because a cleric needs the souls permission to bring it back to the body and resurrect a character, it does not mean and says nowhere does it say that raising a character instantly allows a cleric to know the persons alignment or deity, though a detect evil spell would reveal the alignment.
primemover003
06-20-05, 04:45 AM While there are many ways to prevent Raise Dead (or resurrection) in your case only the PC, the god of the cleric casting the spell, or the samurai's god (Bane) can stop the spell from functioning. If this is good for your story or plot then by all means have fun with it. If it's inconvenient, let the spell function as normal.
VerinBlod
06-20-05, 05:23 AM I agree the cleric wouldn't know the alignment and beliefs of the samurai by casting Raise dead. Only the samurai's soul would know by whom he would be ressurected and what the beliefs of the cleric in question are. So it is up to the player to decide if he wants to come back under those circumstances. He has to make the decision as to how much his soul remembers when he is dead. Doe he know he was an evil character? Doe he wants to be brought back from the dead by a good cleric? This could give nice roleplay opportunities.

Being the DM I wouldn't give him a hard time unless you have some nice story arc in mind ;)

Just my views on it.
Al2902
06-20-05, 06:27 AM I don't necessarily see why a good cleric wouldn't bring back an evil character - even a follower of Bane - particularly if his divine portfolio includes Mercy, Compassion and Forgiveness. If anything, I would argue that neutral clerics are less likely to raise the character in question (since they would veer towards pragmatism) whilst good clerics might consider him a worthwhile character who could possibly be redeemed if shown an act of great potential sacrifice and compassion.
Carn Vandoril
06-20-05, 06:48 AM LE samurai????

That said... by the rules any cleric can raise anyone. How ever I feel the way you do about alignments in this case, but you would have make it some sort of house rule.
Our house rule: a ressurection is extremely rare. (a quest for the party)
But you could consider the WTC, one step rule:
1 step in range of the alignment is ok in cases like this.
So a chaotic evil, lawful neutral maybe even chaotic neutral or neutral cleric could raise your character.

Greetings.
Jonah
06-20-05, 08:51 AM LE samurai????

In the Complete Warrior it just says they have to be Lawful. Part of his history was that he was sent to kill someone from the party but his lack of memory would prevent him from carrying out this act. By the time he remembered, he would have been in several fights alongside them and revoke his oath. He'd then lose his Samurai abilities but renew an oath with a more good aligned belief at a later stage. Plus he's planning on going Kensai anyway.

I agree with the posts but I'm not quite sure how to work out how much his soul would remember or purely leave it up to him.
VerinBlod
06-20-05, 09:04 AM I agree with the posts but I'm not quite sure how to work out how much his soul would remember or purely leave it up to him.

I would leave this one up to the player. IMO you should not make such decisions about a PC.
Dark Alex
06-20-05, 12:29 PM As the player in question I feel it would only be fair to point out that I have left a lot of my characters history in the GM's hands deliberately, one as it gives him a good hook to bring in extra plot lines, but primarily because I enjoy having some surprises.
katsklaw
06-20-05, 02:16 PM I would leave this one up to the player. IMO you should not make such decisions about a PC.

I disagree, more choices in this scenario are at the DM's whim than in the hands of the player. Also lets not forget that it's the OTHER PC's that must agree to even take the dead to a cleric to begin with. Granted, it's still the players character, but if the other pc's elect to leave the body there then the player will have to coordinate with the DM OOG or use the character in another group.

It's not realistic for a player to say "I want to resurect my character" and *poof* it's done. Secondly, a cleric can get a general good or evil impression from a person by looking at them. Charles Manson doesn't look like a good babysitter does he? I'd agree that a detection spell is required to know the exact alignment and unless the corpse is wearing something like a charm or a signet of their deity then the cleric wouldn't know.

Third, lost memories *are* a good time to persuade an alignment change and in my opinion penilty free, however good and evil are both "in the soul". Meaning that just because a person forgot their name doesn't mean they forgot their definition of right and wrong.

Last but not least, I don see a problem with a good cleric resurecting an evil character except if the clerics deity is a mortal enemy of the dead pc's deity.

Hope it helps :)

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Jonah 06-20-05, 04:08 AM	Im my campaign one of the characters is a Lawful Evil Samurai. He had been sent on a mission by his Boss but mugged along the way and knocked unconscious. Now although he is LE, he is still honourable and secondly he has completely lost his memory of who and what he was. He originally was a follower of Bane though he has no recollections of it and during the last game, he died in combat. Now here's my question. The party are currently in the Dalelands, (Archendale to be precise,) and if they find a Cleric who is willing to bring back the character, would he know the God and the Characters alignment? After all, he is trying to draw the spirit back from Bane and back into the body. In my eyes I think he would know and I doubt a single non evil Cleric in the entire Dales would bring back a follower of Bane. I suppose a Druid could cast a reincarnate which always proves interesting but can cause problems with the player. So any suggestions on how to approach it?
Quirriff 06-20-05, 04:18 AM	Loosing memories would allow for easy (and realistic) voluntary allignment change. The Lawful Good Cleric can cast Raise dead and Atonement, and possibly Quest (for a Lawful Good Course), Bingo.
Galaktia 06-20-05, 04:32 AM	Just because a cleric needs the souls permission to bring it back to the body and resurrect a character, it does not mean and says nowhere does it say that raising a character instantly allows a cleric to know the persons alignment or deity, though a detect evil spell would reveal the alignment.
primemover003 06-20-05, 04:45 AM	While there are many ways to prevent Raise Dead (or resurrection) in your case only the PC, the god of the cleric casting the spell, or the samurai's god (Bane) can stop the spell from functioning. If this is good for your story or plot then by all means have fun with it. If it's inconvenient, let the spell function as normal.
VerinBlod 06-20-05, 05:23 AM	I agree the cleric wouldn't know the alignment and beliefs of the samurai by casting Raise dead. Only the samurai's soul would know by whom he would be ressurected and what the beliefs of the cleric in question are. So it is up to the player to decide if he wants to come back under those circumstances. He has to make the decision as to how much his soul remembers when he is dead. Doe he know he was an evil character? Doe he wants to be brought back from the dead by a good cleric? This could give nice roleplay opportunities. Being the DM I wouldn't give him a hard time unless you have some nice story arc in mind ;) Just my views on it.
Al2902 06-20-05, 06:27 AM	I don't necessarily see why a good cleric wouldn't bring back an evil character - even a follower of Bane - particularly if his divine portfolio includes Mercy, Compassion and Forgiveness. If anything, I would argue that neutral clerics are less likely to raise the character in question (since they would veer towards pragmatism) whilst good clerics might consider him a worthwhile character who could possibly be redeemed if shown an act of great potential sacrifice and compassion.
Carn Vandoril 06-20-05, 06:48 AM	LE samurai???? That said... by the rules any cleric can raise anyone. How ever I feel the way you do about alignments in this case, but you would have make it some sort of house rule. Our house rule: a ressurection is extremely rare. (a quest for the party) But you could consider the WTC, one step rule: 1 step in range of the alignment is ok in cases like this. So a chaotic evil, lawful neutral maybe even chaotic neutral or neutral cleric could raise your character. Greetings.
Jonah 06-20-05, 08:51 AM	LE samurai???? In the Complete Warrior it just says they have to be Lawful. Part of his history was that he was sent to kill someone from the party but his lack of memory would prevent him from carrying out this act. By the time he remembered, he would have been in several fights alongside them and revoke his oath. He'd then lose his Samurai abilities but renew an oath with a more good aligned belief at a later stage. Plus he's planning on going Kensai anyway. I agree with the posts but I'm not quite sure how to work out how much his soul would remember or purely leave it up to him.
VerinBlod 06-20-05, 09:04 AM	I agree with the posts but I'm not quite sure how to work out how much his soul would remember or purely leave it up to him. I would leave this one up to the player. IMO you should not make such decisions about a PC.
Dark Alex 06-20-05, 12:29 PM	As the player in question I feel it would only be fair to point out that I have left a lot of my characters history in the GM's hands deliberately, one as it gives him a good hook to bring in extra plot lines, but primarily because I enjoy having some surprises.
katsklaw 06-20-05, 02:16 PM	I would leave this one up to the player. IMO you should not make such decisions about a PC. I disagree, more choices in this scenario are at the DM's whim than in the hands of the player. Also lets not forget that it's the OTHER PC's that must agree to even take the dead to a cleric to begin with. Granted, it's still the players character, but if the other pc's elect to leave the body there then the player will have to coordinate with the DM OOG or use the character in another group. It's not realistic for a player to say "I want to resurect my character" and poof it's done. Secondly, a cleric can get a general good or evil impression from a person by looking at them. Charles Manson doesn't look like a good babysitter does he? I'd agree that a detection spell is required to know the exact alignment and unless the corpse is wearing something like a charm or a signet of their deity then the cleric wouldn't know. Third, lost memories are a good time to persuade an alignment change and in my opinion penilty free, however good and evil are both "in the soul". Meaning that just because a person forgot their name doesn't mean they forgot their definition of right and wrong. Last but not least, I don see a problem with a good cleric resurecting an evil character except if the clerics deity is a mortal enemy of the dead pc's deity. Hope it helps :)