A grappling hook check? [Archive] - Wizards Community

A grappling hook check? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
BaldHero
10-31-04, 12:01 AM I had a player toss a grappling hook into the ribcage of a skeleton last session, and in order to keep the game flowing i just made up some stuff on the fly about how it worked.
Now though, i get the impressoin that everyone really liked the tactic, even though it didnt work, and i need some good rules for how to make it happen.
I started off with an attack roll, range increment 10', and then contested strength roles if the hook hit.
Now i was thinking some sort of trip attack, or maybe something similar to harpoons, without damage?
What do the DMs think is best?
The actual event in game was hilarious, since it was a large troll skeleton, and a halfling was the one with the rope and hook.
Griogre
10-31-04, 12:17 AM If the strenght contest is successful you could use a trip or you could just call it a successful combat assist roll to those actually in melee. You might also look at the grappled rules and see if you think a some sort of modified "ranged grapple" might make sense over the trip.
Bringslite
10-31-04, 12:37 AM Well I think it was creative of your players. I would probably make it a regular ranged touch attack as it should be a bit easier to hook a skellie. I agree that with a successful "hook" it should be an aid another combat situation or maybe a weird grapple. But bottom line it is kind of creative and you shouldn't make it too useless but rather reward them for the good idea.
nekrolog
10-31-04, 01:03 AM I'll throw my 2c in before the armed masses start shouting "No called shots!!" ;)

It is a pretty cool idea, I might rule that it would only work on a large or larger sized skellie, or only on a medium with a small sized grappling hook (like one sized for a halfling or gnome). Human ribs are pretty close together.

Oh yeah, you might want to make the grappling hook an exotic weapon if someone wants to use it in melee. Then just use the rules for a net when it comes to the tripping/entangling aspect. (no folding required though)

I played in a game once where the party wizard was necro-special. He would always raise giant skellies so he could ride around in the ribcage and cast spells through the ribs.
MortalPlague
10-31-04, 02:45 AM I had a campaign where a player made use of a grappling hook to great effect. Picture this if you will; the party is attacking a caravan on a cliffside, with a cliff towering above it, too. The armored guards are trying to stop the PCs, and presenting a tough defense. One player atop the cliff throws a rope and grappling hook, trying to hook the captain of the guards, and misses. One of the players on the ground lunges forward, picks up the hook, and rolls an attack roll with it. He scores a critical hit. I ruled on the fly that it did a d4 of damage, but had a x3 critical. So dealing significant damage to the captain, he embedded the hook in his shoulder. The player who'd originally thrown the hook then hauled the captain up the cliff, jostling him on the hook for further damage, and swung him around to knock the soldiers climbing to get him off the cliff.

The captain had enough HP to survive, however, and unfortunately, his soldiers killed the PC doing the grappling hook melee attack.
Tifus Artwin
10-31-04, 04:01 AM To funny. :rofl:

Id have to rule it like this

Grappling Hook , exotic melee reach weapon, cost 1gp, Dmg(s) 1D4 (l) 1D6 crit x4, Range increment 10', weight 4lbs. , type Blugeoning/peircing.
*as a reach weapon a grappling hook can not be used to attack opponents within 10'.
The grappling hook can be used to attack opponents upto 50' away however and opponents hit by a grappling hook must make a reflexe (DC 13???) to avoid the grappling hook setting in there skin giving the target a -2 on all skill checks, attack and damage roles, skills with dexterity or str as primary abilitys*. A set grappling hook must be forcably removed and causes damage equal to the origanal damage taken, a succsesful heal check DC15 will remove the grappling hook without farther damage. A grappling hook can also be used to make special bullrushes and to drag opponents closer to you with an opposed str check, treat this as an opposed bullrush that pulls the opponent closer instead of pushing them away. A grappling hook can also be used to make a trip attack, if the weilder is triped in turn they can release the rope to aviod being triped.

*undead, constructs, plants, or animated objects are exempt from this penelty as the grappling hook would not obstruct their bodily movements.

Hmmm, that looks good to me, seems balanced from here atleast, make some improvements, a tweek here and there, and make it your own, hope i helped some.
Sucineri
10-31-04, 04:32 AM I've had a halfling rogue use a grappling hook & rope to great success.

I believe we were playing 'Speaker In Dreams' and 2 big purple worms showed up for a fight and my team was getting their butts handed to them because their CR was way too high for the group (DM did it to teach the group that it is OKAY to run away some times because they tended to stay and fight to the death)..and I already started running away when they showed up..but I got like 60 feet and nobody else was coming so I ran back..used my grappling hook..

..I tossed it OVER one of the worms and it snagged in the throat area of the other worm and pierced it so I could get a hold onto it..

..next round I did a full sprint with tumbling and went between the worms and jumped over the back of the one I had pierced, so I had the other worm in a loose loop while still hooked onto the first one..

..next round I ran AHEAD of the hooked worm, jumped and swung around the front of it and around the 2nd worm (while sailing over the heads of my party who were still fighting and getting messed up)..

..then I jumped over the back of the 2nd worm and ran down the middle of the two again, swung back around the 1st worm and pulled the rope..

..the two worms then were effectively (to my DM) hogtied and couldn't really attack independantly or more independantly anymore..

..then I climbed the back of the first worm and pulled harder and harder on the rope while doing more swinging and stuff to get them more and more tied up around the head area and they were killed by the party (two were dead by then and the other 2 were at less than 10 HPs). After that moment the group say me in a different light. :)

2nd time I used the grappling hook & rope effectively in combat was when I was on top of a building we were trying to lure guards out of and being the same character I dangled 2 grappling hooks in front of a door..actually I had help from the fighter to set them correctly so that they dropped along the side of the wall (not in the way of the door) on both sides of the door, and on the ground the ropes were crossed at the thresh-hold with the hooks being out of sight of the doorway from the inside..then the fighter came to the top of the building with me (with help from the wizard flying him up)..

..we then made a bunch of noise and had guards running out the door running right over the rope and not noticing it and looking out away from the building trying to see where the commotion came from and I thought that my plan was screwed up..

..then the leader of the guys came slowly waltzing out of the place and I pulled on the ropes (with help from the fighter) and I nailed him in the armpit with one hook and nailed him in the crotch with the other (he was even wearing magical full plate armor..BUT..full plate isn't exactly known for having protection from below..took advantage of that situation twice as well..other time was with spears..sitting under a bridge while my group called me an idiot. Then the badguys we were waiting for in full plate came walking over all cocky and confidant, then I had my group shove spears straight up through the cracks..took out half the guys from the crotch, a quarter of them freaked out and ran away, while the other quarter's morale was so low they could barely hit the wizard in melee)and while he was screaming in pain his guards were freaking out and shooting arrows and bolts at us, but we had full cover behind the short wall that was surrounding the top of the building. We dropped the morale significantly of the guards to which we promptly took the advantage, and we took out their leader. AGAIN..this was a combat that my DM thought the CR was a bit too high for us beforehand.

I just have a thing about asking EXACTLY what the surroundings are..what kinds of roofs building have, how wide and tall doors are, and all kinds of stuff..and then I exploit it into genius strategies. :)
ShadowDragon8685
10-31-04, 04:39 AM Smart donkey. :)

I like, though did the DM consider that a purple worm (not to mention two of them,) can easily make a rope's Break DC on a Strength check.

Or were you using nigh-indestructable Mithril chains for your grapples? :)
Sucineri
10-31-04, 04:47 AM Was using a bunch of silk rope..but the worms were too busy with the rest of the party to really notice me until they were tied up..and whenever the 2nd work tried to break free it would pull the rope with the hook and hurt the 1st worm which would make it attack back..and yeah, the DM was doing the strength check too, but they were failing on bad rolls, heh..AND I was getting a circumstance bonus for eventually having like 8 or 9 layers of rope around both worms..and although it might be easy to snap 1 rope alone..having 9 of em is a bit harder..especially when the harder you pull, the more they tighten around your body. :P
ShadowDragon8685
10-31-04, 05:10 AM Ahhh. :)

Neat-o.

Just don't forget the Mithril chain trick, though. :P
Sucineri
10-31-04, 05:16 AM Just got done drawing a picture in paint real quick if you need any help on visualizing what I said with the worms.

The left is before and during..the right is after.

I am the green dot..my party (when alive) is blue, and my party (with damage/death) has red in em..red meaning how dead they are.

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2004-10/847693/wormfight.gif
ShadowDragon8685
10-31-04, 05:21 AM That... Is sweet. Good work, BTW. That was very nearly a TPK thanks to your party member's bullheadedness. You pulled their fat out of the Purple Worm's mouth, quite literally.

I'll bet you three survivors got a metric assload of XP for that. :)
Sucineri
10-31-04, 05:35 AM Well, all 6 of us got exps..I believe RAW mentions something like as long as 1 person in the group is still standing at the end of combat, everyone who participated gets exps as normal..though technically I think I should have gotten more exps than anyone (and actually I did after the game because the group liked the strategy so much they gave me a bunch of roleplaying exps) :)
Mister Mayhem
10-31-04, 05:46 AM I beleive that thr rules for Caluhaks(?), a Dark-Sun weapon that is basically a rope with a grappling hook on each end, appeared in a reasonably recent Dragon Mag.

I remember (in AD&D) using these as the primary weapon for my halfling beast-rider. Ride into range, entangle the enemy, then hook the other end onto the saddle and ride off as fast as you can...
LiXinjian
10-31-04, 09:31 AM Just take into account the Grappling Hook rule (p.126 of the PHB) which states that to throw it properly, you need a successful Use Rope check, DC10 + 2 per 10 feet of distance thrown. If the check fails, the rope got messed up in some way, and the hook didn't really fly towards its target. If you are attempting to affix the hook to an opponent engaged in melee with you, you still need to make a DC10 check to avoid entangling the rope.

If the Use Rope check succeeds, the player rolls his ranged touch attack (if the opponent is more than 5' away), or a normal melee touch attack (if within the character's reach - d'huh). Attack of opportunities take place if appropriate, of course.

The rope check should be considered part of the attack.

Once your hook hits, both opponents are considered grappled. You can deal damage with a successful grapple check each round. I'd go with 1d6 minus the target's armor bonus, including natural armor (it is, after all, possible to wedge the hook in between plates or scales, where it doesn't hurt but is still stuck). Other options while grappling in this fashion include tripping, the possibility to escape the grapple at any time by releasing the rope, moving the grappled creature with a successful opposed strength check, etc. For the opponent to escape, and most other issues, try to use the regular grappling rules. We are talking about a grappling hook, right? ;)

If you want to try to yank an opponent's shield (or other legitimate item) free, substitute the Grappling Rules for the Disarm rules. Just keep the "base" rule that applies to the Grappling Hook, and disregard options that are not viable. In the case of the grappling option, for instance, you don't have to enter the opponent's square and therefore cannot draw attacks of opportunity from other creatures.

Keep the AC, Hardness and HP stats of those ropes at hand, though, because most everybody will want to cut the rope asap. Don't be surprised if your players start looking for the aforementioned mithril rope, heh.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
BaldHero 10-31-04, 12:01 AM	I had a player toss a grappling hook into the ribcage of a skeleton last session, and in order to keep the game flowing i just made up some stuff on the fly about how it worked. Now though, i get the impressoin that everyone really liked the tactic, even though it didnt work, and i need some good rules for how to make it happen. I started off with an attack roll, range increment 10', and then contested strength roles if the hook hit. Now i was thinking some sort of trip attack, or maybe something similar to harpoons, without damage? What do the DMs think is best? The actual event in game was hilarious, since it was a large troll skeleton, and a halfling was the one with the rope and hook.
Griogre 10-31-04, 12:17 AM	If the strenght contest is successful you could use a trip or you could just call it a successful combat assist roll to those actually in melee. You might also look at the grappled rules and see if you think a some sort of modified "ranged grapple" might make sense over the trip.
Bringslite 10-31-04, 12:37 AM	Well I think it was creative of your players. I would probably make it a regular ranged touch attack as it should be a bit easier to hook a skellie. I agree that with a successful "hook" it should be an aid another combat situation or maybe a weird grapple. But bottom line it is kind of creative and you shouldn't make it too useless but rather reward them for the good idea.
nekrolog 10-31-04, 01:03 AM	I'll throw my 2c in before the armed masses start shouting "No called shots!!" ;) It is a pretty cool idea, I might rule that it would only work on a large or larger sized skellie, or only on a medium with a small sized grappling hook (like one sized for a halfling or gnome). Human ribs are pretty close together. Oh yeah, you might want to make the grappling hook an exotic weapon if someone wants to use it in melee. Then just use the rules for a net when it comes to the tripping/entangling aspect. (no folding required though) I played in a game once where the party wizard was necro-special. He would always raise giant skellies so he could ride around in the ribcage and cast spells through the ribs.
MortalPlague 10-31-04, 02:45 AM	I had a campaign where a player made use of a grappling hook to great effect. Picture this if you will; the party is attacking a caravan on a cliffside, with a cliff towering above it, too. The armored guards are trying to stop the PCs, and presenting a tough defense. One player atop the cliff throws a rope and grappling hook, trying to hook the captain of the guards, and misses. One of the players on the ground lunges forward, picks up the hook, and rolls an attack roll with it. He scores a critical hit. I ruled on the fly that it did a d4 of damage, but had a x3 critical. So dealing significant damage to the captain, he embedded the hook in his shoulder. The player who'd originally thrown the hook then hauled the captain up the cliff, jostling him on the hook for further damage, and swung him around to knock the soldiers climbing to get him off the cliff. The captain had enough HP to survive, however, and unfortunately, his soldiers killed the PC doing the grappling hook melee attack.
Tifus Artwin 10-31-04, 04:01 AM	To funny. :rofl: Id have to rule it like this Grappling Hook , exotic melee reach weapon, cost 1gp, Dmg(s) 1D4 (l) 1D6 crit x4, Range increment 10', weight 4lbs. , type Blugeoning/peircing. as a reach weapon a grappling hook can not be used to attack opponents within 10'. The grappling hook can be used to attack opponents upto 50' away however and opponents hit by a grappling hook must make a reflexe (DC 13???) to avoid the grappling hook setting in there skin giving the target a -2 on all skill checks, attack and damage roles, skills with dexterity or str as primary abilitys. A set grappling hook must be forcably removed and causes damage equal to the origanal damage taken, a succsesful heal check DC15 will remove the grappling hook without farther damage. A grappling hook can also be used to make special bullrushes and to drag opponents closer to you with an opposed str check, treat this as an opposed bullrush that pulls the opponent closer instead of pushing them away. A grappling hook can also be used to make a trip attack, if the weilder is triped in turn they can release the rope to aviod being triped. *undead, constructs, plants, or animated objects are exempt from this penelty as the grappling hook would not obstruct their bodily movements. Hmmm, that looks good to me, seems balanced from here atleast, make some improvements, a tweek here and there, and make it your own, hope i helped some.
Sucineri 10-31-04, 04:32 AM	I've had a halfling rogue use a grappling hook & rope to great success. I believe we were playing 'Speaker In Dreams' and 2 big purple worms showed up for a fight and my team was getting their butts handed to them because their CR was way too high for the group (DM did it to teach the group that it is OKAY to run away some times because they tended to stay and fight to the death)..and I already started running away when they showed up..but I got like 60 feet and nobody else was coming so I ran back..used my grappling hook.. ..I tossed it OVER one of the worms and it snagged in the throat area of the other worm and pierced it so I could get a hold onto it.. ..next round I did a full sprint with tumbling and went between the worms and jumped over the back of the one I had pierced, so I had the other worm in a loose loop while still hooked onto the first one.. ..next round I ran AHEAD of the hooked worm, jumped and swung around the front of it and around the 2nd worm (while sailing over the heads of my party who were still fighting and getting messed up).. ..then I jumped over the back of the 2nd worm and ran down the middle of the two again, swung back around the 1st worm and pulled the rope.. ..the two worms then were effectively (to my DM) hogtied and couldn't really attack independantly or more independantly anymore.. ..then I climbed the back of the first worm and pulled harder and harder on the rope while doing more swinging and stuff to get them more and more tied up around the head area and they were killed by the party (two were dead by then and the other 2 were at less than 10 HPs). After that moment the group say me in a different light. :) 2nd time I used the grappling hook & rope effectively in combat was when I was on top of a building we were trying to lure guards out of and being the same character I dangled 2 grappling hooks in front of a door..actually I had help from the fighter to set them correctly so that they dropped along the side of the wall (not in the way of the door) on both sides of the door, and on the ground the ropes were crossed at the thresh-hold with the hooks being out of sight of the doorway from the inside..then the fighter came to the top of the building with me (with help from the wizard flying him up).. ..we then made a bunch of noise and had guards running out the door running right over the rope and not noticing it and looking out away from the building trying to see where the commotion came from and I thought that my plan was screwed up.. ..then the leader of the guys came slowly waltzing out of the place and I pulled on the ropes (with help from the fighter) and I nailed him in the armpit with one hook and nailed him in the crotch with the other (he was even wearing magical full plate armor..BUT..full plate isn't exactly known for having protection from below..took advantage of that situation twice as well..other time was with spears..sitting under a bridge while my group called me an idiot. Then the badguys we were waiting for in full plate came walking over all cocky and confidant, then I had my group shove spears straight up through the cracks..took out half the guys from the crotch, a quarter of them freaked out and ran away, while the other quarter's morale was so low they could barely hit the wizard in melee)and while he was screaming in pain his guards were freaking out and shooting arrows and bolts at us, but we had full cover behind the short wall that was surrounding the top of the building. We dropped the morale significantly of the guards to which we promptly took the advantage, and we took out their leader. AGAIN..this was a combat that my DM thought the CR was a bit too high for us beforehand. I just have a thing about asking EXACTLY what the surroundings are..what kinds of roofs building have, how wide and tall doors are, and all kinds of stuff..and then I exploit it into genius strategies. :)
ShadowDragon8685 10-31-04, 04:39 AM	Smart donkey. :) I like, though did the DM consider that a purple worm (not to mention two of them,) can easily make a rope's Break DC on a Strength check. Or were you using nigh-indestructable Mithril chains for your grapples? :)
Sucineri 10-31-04, 04:47 AM	Was using a bunch of silk rope..but the worms were too busy with the rest of the party to really notice me until they were tied up..and whenever the 2nd work tried to break free it would pull the rope with the hook and hurt the 1st worm which would make it attack back..and yeah, the DM was doing the strength check too, but they were failing on bad rolls, heh..AND I was getting a circumstance bonus for eventually having like 8 or 9 layers of rope around both worms..and although it might be easy to snap 1 rope alone..having 9 of em is a bit harder..especially when the harder you pull, the more they tighten around your body. :P
ShadowDragon8685 10-31-04, 05:10 AM	Ahhh. :) Neat-o. Just don't forget the Mithril chain trick, though. :P
Sucineri 10-31-04, 05:16 AM	Just got done drawing a picture in paint real quick if you need any help on visualizing what I said with the worms. The left is before and during..the right is after. I am the green dot..my party (when alive) is blue, and my party (with damage/death) has red in em..red meaning how dead they are. http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2004-10/847693/wormfight.gif
ShadowDragon8685 10-31-04, 05:21 AM	That... Is sweet. Good work, BTW. That was very nearly a TPK thanks to your party member's bullheadedness. You pulled their fat out of the Purple Worm's mouth, quite literally. I'll bet you three survivors got a metric assload of XP for that. :)
Sucineri 10-31-04, 05:35 AM	Well, all 6 of us got exps..I believe RAW mentions something like as long as 1 person in the group is still standing at the end of combat, everyone who participated gets exps as normal..though technically I think I should have gotten more exps than anyone (and actually I did after the game because the group liked the strategy so much they gave me a bunch of roleplaying exps) :)
Mister Mayhem 10-31-04, 05:46 AM	I beleive that thr rules for Caluhaks(?), a Dark-Sun weapon that is basically a rope with a grappling hook on each end, appeared in a reasonably recent Dragon Mag. I remember (in AD&D) using these as the primary weapon for my halfling beast-rider. Ride into range, entangle the enemy, then hook the other end onto the saddle and ride off as fast as you can...
LiXinjian 10-31-04, 09:31 AM	Just take into account the Grappling Hook rule (p.126 of the PHB) which states that to throw it properly, you need a successful Use Rope check, DC10 + 2 per 10 feet of distance thrown. If the check fails, the rope got messed up in some way, and the hook didn't really fly towards its target. If you are attempting to affix the hook to an opponent engaged in melee with you, you still need to make a DC10 check to avoid entangling the rope. If the Use Rope check succeeds, the player rolls his ranged touch attack (if the opponent is more than 5' away), or a normal melee touch attack (if within the character's reach - d'huh). Attack of opportunities take place if appropriate, of course. The rope check should be considered part of the attack. Once your hook hits, both opponents are considered grappled. You can deal damage with a successful grapple check each round. I'd go with 1d6 minus the target's armor bonus, including natural armor (it is, after all, possible to wedge the hook in between plates or scales, where it doesn't hurt but is still stuck). Other options while grappling in this fashion include tripping, the possibility to escape the grapple at any time by releasing the rope, moving the grappled creature with a successful opposed strength check, etc. For the opponent to escape, and most other issues, try to use the regular grappling rules. We are talking about a grappling hook, right? ;) If you want to try to yank an opponent's shield (or other legitimate item) free, substitute the Grappling Rules for the Disarm rules. Just keep the "base" rule that applies to the Grappling Hook, and disregard options that are not viable. In the case of the grappling option, for instance, you don't have to enter the opponent's square and therefore cannot draw attacks of opportunity from other creatures. Keep the AC, Hardness and HP stats of those ropes at hand, though, because most everybody will want to cut the rope asap. Don't be surprised if your players start looking for the aforementioned mithril rope, heh.