A Group of Fighters [Archive] - Wizards Community

A Group of Fighters [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Sasha Windsor
05-18-07, 08:19 PM I'm starting my first PBEM game with a group of friends that I played D&D with years ago. None of them are familiar with 3.5, so they'll be learning as we play.

I stressed party balance to them, but none listened. I have four fighters in my group. This is the first time I've come across this kind of group, where everyone wants to play the same class. It is an interesting situation.

Is there anything I should keep in mind while running this game to ensure we all enjoy the game? Has anyone else run a game where everyone played the same class?
PenderGrass
05-18-07, 08:40 PM Is there anything I should keep in mind while running this game to ensure we all enjoy the game?
I think your thread title says everything you should keep in mind - you have a group of fighters (and not one other character type).

Keep that in mind and you will likely be okay.

:dragon:
****
trapspringer
05-18-07, 08:43 PM Yes and yes.

Here's the deal; each archetypal role prefers one kind of encounter and is negated or disadvantaged by another, kinda' like rock-paper-scissors, but with infinite variation and arranged along a continuum instead of around a triangle.

At one end you have fighters and such, they represent Beaters. They've got lots of HP and not too many special abilities.

At the opposite end you have Gadgets (like wizards and ****). These guys don't have anything but their tricks and gizmos to get by on. Rogues and such are somewhere in the middle, with a modicum of raw killin' power and some tricks to fall back on.

Anyway, Fighters are good against the middle of the spectrum and bad against the far end. They tie with themselves.

What you want to focus on are monsters with lots of HP because these guys are gunna' be dishin' out the damage. Try to keep special abilities to a minimum because the party will be unable to address them properly. Don't go too light on the tricky stuff, though, or combat will devolve into "Tag. You are it. Tag. Now you are the one who is it."

Healing will be less of an issue than you think because they have so much HP, but you should consider swapping out some of the standard treasure allotment for potions of CLW.

While it might be tempting, don't overuse "make a will save" crap. No one likes their heroic hero guy to run 'cuz some dippy jack-ass in a purple robe cast a first level spell.

(If you read the mechanical theory, most of your encounters should land between Beater and Rogue on the continuum, shifting closer to either extreme end for tougher fights.)
Krusk
05-18-07, 08:58 PM I would suggest you stay away from magical traps, but include lots of traps that involve climbing/swimming/jumping around. Things like climb across the swinging ropes over the chasm with spinning blades below it. instead of the doorknob is coated with poison, sucks.

Other than that you can pretty much treat it like any other game at low levels. If they get to a point where all the pregenerated monsters ect have magic abilities you might want to try toning them down some.
Sasha Windsor
05-18-07, 09:04 PM Excellent advice, thank you all. I just wanted to make sure there was nothing in particular that I was overlooking.
Holy_Beholder
05-18-07, 09:40 PM Give them some good new feat options. Lightning reflexes that can be upgraded to evasion, that can be upgraded to improved evasion, same thing for Great Fortitude, and Iron will. Stuff like that.
nickcan
05-19-07, 01:42 AM Also, I know it's just fluff, but with a group of all normal characters (ie, no spellcasters) it's fun to keep magic as something mysterious and dangerous. Wizards might not be so common in your campaign and when they do encounter one he or she would have a strange accent or mannerisms.
runestar
05-19-07, 02:08 AM It looks like you may some problems with certain challenges which may assume your party has access to certain abilities, such as flight, sneaking, healing etc. Potions are prohibitively expensive, consider if one of your PCs might be willing to splash 1 lv of cleric for wands instead. Dispel is also another problem - looks like buffs and the like will give your party fits.

There is a regional feat in PGTF which gives you the ability to use spell trigger items as a 1st lv arcane spellcaster. See if someone is willing to take it, so that your party can at least rely on wands for some limited magical support.

You may have to learn to be creative in some aspects, I suppose. Like using wand of summon monster1 to act as trapspringers.
ArcanaKnight
05-19-07, 02:17 AM You might want to take a look at the back of the Complete Warrior. It has some campaign ideas for more martial oriented groups.
kelvinaw273
05-19-07, 10:09 AM Perfect - you have a mercenary troop. Adventure hook? The caravan boss is hiring, the town watch needs new recruits to root out the beasties in the sewers, etc.

This can make for a dead easy campaign from your point of view.
Borris
05-19-07, 10:39 AM Regarding healing, see if you can't get two of the players to make a ranger and a paladin. While they won't be as effective as a cleric, between the two of them, they should provide enough healing to keep the party going for another encounter or two per day.

And do look at the back of Complete Warrior. There's an entire section (called Warriors in the Campaign) dedicated to building a campaign with mostly (or only) martial characters.
celtredleg
05-19-07, 10:48 AM To start with, dont change anything. Run it just like any other game. See if they cant solve the problems themselves. It is a challenge, but it is also a lot of fun when you have to stretch to cover the self imposed weaknesses.
Orbb_was_railed_by_God
05-19-07, 11:04 AM I'd be tempted to run a military campaign, and have them get some battlefield experience.

If I were a lowly serf, I'd be pretty impressed when the level 1 fighters come back as seasoned hard cases.
Eric888
05-19-07, 02:11 PM Single class fighters are tied with wizards for most-broken-class-in-second-edition. In 2nd ed, a party of only fighters was actually pretty good.

I would recomend reiterating your point again. One or two of the players may realize that its a little silly. Otherwise, just run your game. When the party starts having to rest for a month after each encounter, and using intimidate for every social roll, a couple of them will realise how silly it is. Just make sure that you let them make new charecters at no penalty. And avoid letting them drag an NPC cleric around.
Khementari
05-19-07, 02:55 PM The silly thing isn't the "group of fighters", it's the idea that a class should be ruled by what skills it's not allowed to be good at, and therefore games should be built around a 'balanced' group.

There is no reason a fighter shouldn't be able to be a great negotiator, cartographer, linguist, etc...

If I were in a world where I could die at the hands of monsters at any moment I wouldn't run around in a 'balanced' group, I would be back to back with my friends--the people I trusted with my life--and if they happen to all be fighters then so be it.

Take a step back from the video game ideal and let the guys play how they want to play.
Enigmous
05-19-07, 03:10 PM Are they all the same big weapon power attack type? If so, that could kinda suck because they might be able to kill everything in range with the charge.
Sunic_Flames
05-19-07, 03:48 PM Are they all the same big weapon power attack type? If so, that could kinda suck because they might be able to kill everything in range with the charge.

If they are they also all have more or less the same gear needs... very anti synergestic.
BloodyAxe
05-19-07, 06:53 PM Make sure you and your players are thoroughly familiar with ALL the combat rules and have an agreement on anything with ambiguity. Personally, I think it sounds like a lot of fun and should make DMing the group much easier.
Forgember
05-19-07, 07:14 PM Just becuase they are all playing fighters dosent mean they are all going to be suped up battle tanks. Also I wouldnt assume that it means none of them will have skills other than what fighters can take normally. This could be a very diverse group if you think of the staggering number of different ways to build a fighter. I don't think healing and resting will be much of a problem sence its likly everyone would be more than willing to skip forward a few days, rest periods don't always have to be RPed out. That Fast Healing feat is looking pretty good for this party and I'm thinking some cross classed ranks in Healing and maybe the Self-Suficient feat could prove usefull. In any event seems like it would be an exciting RP opertunity and probably alot of fun for you as the DM too. Books are filled with partys of only fighters perhaps take some insperation from them.
Noon
05-19-07, 08:08 PM I'm starting my first PBEM game with a group of friends that I played D&D with years ago. None of them are familiar with 3.5, so they'll be learning as we play.

I stressed party balance to them, but none listened. I have four fighters in my group. This is the first time I've come across this kind of group, where everyone wants to play the same class. It is an interesting situation.

Is there anything I should keep in mind while running this game to ensure we all enjoy the game? Has anyone else run a game where everyone played the same class?
You realise that they are changing the game world by their choices - ie, they chose fighters and your going to change a bunch of stuff to fit that? Essentially they are chosing the change a bunch of stuff and your the proxy for it to happen.

The way to enjoy it is to embrace it fully - bypass playing cool tactical minatures and have it a collaborative world creation and enjoyment session - let them change other stuff.

Seriously, I bet their not at all interested in learning from a TPK cause they chose a crappy party line up. I bet it's all world creation fun in their minds - and I bet in yours as well, so go for that.
AtmaWeapon
05-19-07, 09:31 PM All in all, the most hilarious thing is that, in a year, after they pick up the rules, you're going to have a party full of clerics and druids ;)
celtredleg
05-19-07, 10:06 PM At least you cant claim they are trying to powergame.

A full party of clerics might be a real pain.
Finarin Panjoro
05-19-07, 10:45 PM This could be a help to you.

I introduced a fighter only feat called Skill Emphasis this allows the fighter to select any of the +2/+2 skill boost feats (alertness, stealthy, magical aptitude, etc) and in addition to the bonus it makes both of the the boosted skills fighter class skills.

This would let each fighter in your group have a different skill specialty and a different function within your campaign.

I'd recommend they each take something like:
SE: Negotiator (Diplomacy and Sense Motive) the party face
SE: Self- Sufficient (Heal and Survival), the party healer and tracker
SE: Magical Aptitude (Spellcraft and Use Magic Device) the party wand and magic item user
SE: Stealthy (Hide and Move Silently) the party sneak (probably an archer or other dex based fighter type).

Have fun!
Dragoloth
05-20-07, 12:54 AM Sounds great to me. This actually gives you some good encounter possibilities. I say let them do it and have fun with it.
zzo38
05-20-07, 01:13 AM I say, ignore the fact that it is all fighters. Play the game normally, and hope the players are smart enough to figure out how to get by things that mostly fighters don't do. Also they could hire NPCs and stuff. But, if they do get killed from such things as all 4 fighters, you could tell them next time recomend making not all same classes. If they continue making 4 fighters again then they have to understand how to survive in such situtations.
Dazzer
05-20-07, 03:57 AM If all four are actually playing, the FIGHTER base class.

Keep in mind, they'll probably be useless in social situations, barring with animals, and scaring people into saying useful things.

Barring smart cross-class selection, they know nothing about magic, monsters, society, famous people, anything. They have no knowledges and must act upon COMMON KNOWLEDGE and INSTINCT, alone. You will have to feed them information from NPC's for them to know anything about monsters if they don't cross-class some knowledges. Perhaps you should make a chart paying NPC's for knowledge that an NPC might know? Or at least come up with some basic figures.

Ironically enough considering the above. The only situation in which your fighters will shine, is fighting the monsters they know nothing about. Funny don't you think?

Because of these things, I would suggest that if they all insist on playing fighters, suggest the following.

Variant Fighter: THUG
Loses Armour proficiency medium/heavy, tower shield proficiency.
Loses: Bonus fighter feat at level 1
Gains: 4+ int skills
Gather information, knowledge local, sense motive, sleight of hand
Can take urban tracking as a fighter bonus feat.

The above variant is IDENTICAL to the fighter in every other way except as mentioned above.

Unless you want your game to be pure hacknslash, which it will probably become because 4 fighters will not go into the business of social delegation. They will search out things they are good at doing, like fighting. Suggest the following

PrC's. Suggest prestige classes, which expand their repetoire of abilities. The pious templar will make a fighter lose 3 bonus feats, but gain paladin spells and some special abilities. A kensai (complete warrior) fighter is also very cool, awesome weapon and bonuses on social abilities. A particular favourite of mine, is the Occult Slayer, 5 levels, gains bonuses against casters (which will be hard for them to contend with)

Suggest the Feat: Signature Skill, This feat grants a +2 bonus when using a particular skill, it also makes the skill a class skill regardless of your class. As an example, a fighter could take signature skill Decipher Script, and treat that skill as a class skill for the rest of his life. He also gains a +2 bonus when using it! This is especially useful, since a 4 fighter party will be quite bland on skill selection barring Godly (DM) intervention. Good choices would be, spellcraft, heal, balance or a social skill or two.

Note, that these fighters will be useless against traps, healing eachother (without the use of items). They don't have a cleric or any kind of healer. A universal rule for most parties, is that without a cleric, you cannot expect them to last the distance in a very long series of encounters. They just don't have the ability to recuperate quickly. At high levels, they are expected to do things like hack their way through the 10 ogres, beat the 10 headed pyro-hydra, murder the 6 vampire spawn minions which all happen to have 6 levels in wizard or cleric to boot, and then kill the vampire and his lich companion. Without a healer, two or three critical hits could stop these guys at the ogres.

However, as they are all fighters, their combat options will be, or will become, enormous. You'll be working around grapples, disarms, trips, bullrushes, over-runs, mounted trampling, sundering, power attacking, cleaving, whirlwinding, and a bunch more cool stuff that sometimes gets neglected in a campaign. Make encounters where these things get highlighted. The difference in Daves fighter from the others, is that he's the only one who SPECIALIZED in tripping. Make a monster that if not tripped gets 8 attacks per round, when tripped, 1 attack if it gets up, or 4 AoP's if it doesn't (carrion crawler is a good one for this!). It will highlight his usefulness. Make opponents use these options ALOT, as fighters, they will either be good at defending against them, or will soon learn to take feats to BE good against them, it isn't like they are lacking.

Since they are all playing fighters, you should suggest to them, that they broaden their techniques AS FAR apart from eachother as they can get.

My suggestion would be

A reach weapon specialist (halberd is good)

A defensive specialist (AC build, hitpoints, enduring, combat reflexes!!!)

A ranged specialist (fear the fighter with manyshot, and a hundred damage extra from feats....and a strength bow...that's magical...fear him alot...rogue sneak attack soon means very little...you'll see.) (He must wear a buckler...read it's description in the PhB, excellent shield)

A general fighter, a good one for this, is he doesn't specialise in any weapon PER SAY although he could, if he does suggest a weapon that can be thrown and used effectively in melee, so he has options. Improved unarmed strike is great for this kindof fighter, as is a stunning fist, taken as a normal feat. Suggest he use a buckler since with Impr. Unarmed, Deflect arrows, and a melee weapon in his other hand, all the other shields means he can't use deflect arrows, with a buckler he can. Also a buckler can be used with a bow of any kind without penalty.

These are all suggestions, not word of law. Take heed of any of them you want, and ignore any you want to. I stress I am not telling you how to run, I'm simply giving you advice, sometimes in the form of how I would do it!

Have Fun, that's the main idea anyways!
JulesCARV
05-20-07, 04:24 AM Are any of them charismatic? If so, you might consider allowing them to take the leadership feat by level 6 (and mention that, hey, they don't have to take it, but you'll certainly be accomodating if they want to take it). As for levels 1-5, (or 6+ if they all decide to skip leadership, or take more fighters as cohorts), that'll be tough, but it could work if they're smart.
Sunic_Flames
05-20-07, 01:17 PM By the way, there's an item in the Magic Item Compendium called a Healing Belt. 3 charges a day, replenished at dawn and can use 1-3 charges at once. 1 charge = 2d8 healing, 2 charges = 3d8 healing, 3 charges = 4d8 healing. Only costs 750 gp, so you could reasonably let em have it around level 3, and potions in the meantime.
loaba
05-20-07, 01:43 PM First of all, I'm completely jealous. I would love to run/play in a group of Fighters (absolutely my favorite class in the game).

You've gotten tons of useful advice, the only thing I can think to as is this; don't forget multiclassing! As the game progresses, don't be afraid to point out neat multiclassing options for these developing Fighters. I'm seeing Fighter/Cleric and Fighter/Rogue as natural progressions, maybe even a Gish.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Sasha Windsor 05-18-07, 08:19 PM	I'm starting my first PBEM game with a group of friends that I played D&D with years ago. None of them are familiar with 3.5, so they'll be learning as we play. I stressed party balance to them, but none listened. I have four fighters in my group. This is the first time I've come across this kind of group, where everyone wants to play the same class. It is an interesting situation. Is there anything I should keep in mind while running this game to ensure we all enjoy the game? Has anyone else run a game where everyone played the same class?
PenderGrass 05-18-07, 08:40 PM	Is there anything I should keep in mind while running this game to ensure we all enjoy the game? I think your thread title says everything you should keep in mind - you have a group of fighters (and not one other character type). Keep that in mind and you will likely be okay. :dragon: ****
trapspringer 05-18-07, 08:43 PM	Yes and yes. Here's the deal; each archetypal role prefers one kind of encounter and is negated or disadvantaged by another, kinda' like rock-paper-scissors, but with infinite variation and arranged along a continuum instead of around a triangle. At one end you have fighters and such, they represent Beaters. They've got lots of HP and not too many special abilities. At the opposite end you have Gadgets (like wizards and ****). These guys don't have anything but their tricks and gizmos to get by on. Rogues and such are somewhere in the middle, with a modicum of raw killin' power and some tricks to fall back on. Anyway, Fighters are good against the middle of the spectrum and bad against the far end. They tie with themselves. What you want to focus on are monsters with lots of HP because these guys are gunna' be dishin' out the damage. Try to keep special abilities to a minimum because the party will be unable to address them properly. Don't go too light on the tricky stuff, though, or combat will devolve into "Tag. You are it. Tag. Now you are the one who is it." Healing will be less of an issue than you think because they have so much HP, but you should consider swapping out some of the standard treasure allotment for potions of CLW. While it might be tempting, don't overuse "make a will save" crap. No one likes their heroic hero guy to run 'cuz some dippy jack-ass in a purple robe cast a first level spell. (If you read the mechanical theory, most of your encounters should land between Beater and Rogue on the continuum, shifting closer to either extreme end for tougher fights.)
Krusk 05-18-07, 08:58 PM	I would suggest you stay away from magical traps, but include lots of traps that involve climbing/swimming/jumping around. Things like climb across the swinging ropes over the chasm with spinning blades below it. instead of the doorknob is coated with poison, sucks. Other than that you can pretty much treat it like any other game at low levels. If they get to a point where all the pregenerated monsters ect have magic abilities you might want to try toning them down some.
Sasha Windsor 05-18-07, 09:04 PM	Excellent advice, thank you all. I just wanted to make sure there was nothing in particular that I was overlooking.
Holy_Beholder 05-18-07, 09:40 PM	Give them some good new feat options. Lightning reflexes that can be upgraded to evasion, that can be upgraded to improved evasion, same thing for Great Fortitude, and Iron will. Stuff like that.
nickcan 05-19-07, 01:42 AM	Also, I know it's just fluff, but with a group of all normal characters (ie, no spellcasters) it's fun to keep magic as something mysterious and dangerous. Wizards might not be so common in your campaign and when they do encounter one he or she would have a strange accent or mannerisms.
runestar 05-19-07, 02:08 AM	It looks like you may some problems with certain challenges which may assume your party has access to certain abilities, such as flight, sneaking, healing etc. Potions are prohibitively expensive, consider if one of your PCs might be willing to splash 1 lv of cleric for wands instead. Dispel is also another problem - looks like buffs and the like will give your party fits. There is a regional feat in PGTF which gives you the ability to use spell trigger items as a 1st lv arcane spellcaster. See if someone is willing to take it, so that your party can at least rely on wands for some limited magical support. You may have to learn to be creative in some aspects, I suppose. Like using wand of summon monster1 to act as trapspringers.
ArcanaKnight 05-19-07, 02:17 AM	You might want to take a look at the back of the Complete Warrior. It has some campaign ideas for more martial oriented groups.
kelvinaw273 05-19-07, 10:09 AM	Perfect - you have a mercenary troop. Adventure hook? The caravan boss is hiring, the town watch needs new recruits to root out the beasties in the sewers, etc. This can make for a dead easy campaign from your point of view.
Borris 05-19-07, 10:39 AM	Regarding healing, see if you can't get two of the players to make a ranger and a paladin. While they won't be as effective as a cleric, between the two of them, they should provide enough healing to keep the party going for another encounter or two per day. And do look at the back of Complete Warrior. There's an entire section (called Warriors in the Campaign) dedicated to building a campaign with mostly (or only) martial characters.
celtredleg 05-19-07, 10:48 AM	To start with, dont change anything. Run it just like any other game. See if they cant solve the problems themselves. It is a challenge, but it is also a lot of fun when you have to stretch to cover the self imposed weaknesses.
Orbb_was_railed_by_God 05-19-07, 11:04 AM	I'd be tempted to run a military campaign, and have them get some battlefield experience. If I were a lowly serf, I'd be pretty impressed when the level 1 fighters come back as seasoned hard cases.
Eric888 05-19-07, 02:11 PM	Single class fighters are tied with wizards for most-broken-class-in-second-edition. In 2nd ed, a party of only fighters was actually pretty good. I would recomend reiterating your point again. One or two of the players may realize that its a little silly. Otherwise, just run your game. When the party starts having to rest for a month after each encounter, and using intimidate for every social roll, a couple of them will realise how silly it is. Just make sure that you let them make new charecters at no penalty. And avoid letting them drag an NPC cleric around.
Khementari 05-19-07, 02:55 PM	The silly thing isn't the "group of fighters", it's the idea that a class should be ruled by what skills it's not allowed to be good at, and therefore games should be built around a 'balanced' group. There is no reason a fighter shouldn't be able to be a great negotiator, cartographer, linguist, etc... If I were in a world where I could die at the hands of monsters at any moment I wouldn't run around in a 'balanced' group, I would be back to back with my friends--the people I trusted with my life--and if they happen to all be fighters then so be it. Take a step back from the video game ideal and let the guys play how they want to play.
Enigmous 05-19-07, 03:10 PM	Are they all the same big weapon power attack type? If so, that could kinda suck because they might be able to kill everything in range with the charge.
Sunic_Flames 05-19-07, 03:48 PM	Are they all the same big weapon power attack type? If so, that could kinda suck because they might be able to kill everything in range with the charge. If they are they also all have more or less the same gear needs... very anti synergestic.
BloodyAxe 05-19-07, 06:53 PM	Make sure you and your players are thoroughly familiar with ALL the combat rules and have an agreement on anything with ambiguity. Personally, I think it sounds like a lot of fun and should make DMing the group much easier.
Forgember 05-19-07, 07:14 PM	Just becuase they are all playing fighters dosent mean they are all going to be suped up battle tanks. Also I wouldnt assume that it means none of them will have skills other than what fighters can take normally. This could be a very diverse group if you think of the staggering number of different ways to build a fighter. I don't think healing and resting will be much of a problem sence its likly everyone would be more than willing to skip forward a few days, rest periods don't always have to be RPed out. That Fast Healing feat is looking pretty good for this party and I'm thinking some cross classed ranks in Healing and maybe the Self-Suficient feat could prove usefull. In any event seems like it would be an exciting RP opertunity and probably alot of fun for you as the DM too. Books are filled with partys of only fighters perhaps take some insperation from them.
Noon 05-19-07, 08:08 PM	I'm starting my first PBEM game with a group of friends that I played D&D with years ago. None of them are familiar with 3.5, so they'll be learning as we play. I stressed party balance to them, but none listened. I have four fighters in my group. This is the first time I've come across this kind of group, where everyone wants to play the same class. It is an interesting situation. Is there anything I should keep in mind while running this game to ensure we all enjoy the game? Has anyone else run a game where everyone played the same class? You realise that they are changing the game world by their choices - ie, they chose fighters and your going to change a bunch of stuff to fit that? Essentially they are chosing the change a bunch of stuff and your the proxy for it to happen. The way to enjoy it is to embrace it fully - bypass playing cool tactical minatures and have it a collaborative world creation and enjoyment session - let them change other stuff. Seriously, I bet their not at all interested in learning from a TPK cause they chose a crappy party line up. I bet it's all world creation fun in their minds - and I bet in yours as well, so go for that.
AtmaWeapon 05-19-07, 09:31 PM	All in all, the most hilarious thing is that, in a year, after they pick up the rules, you're going to have a party full of clerics and druids ;)
celtredleg 05-19-07, 10:06 PM	At least you cant claim they are trying to powergame. A full party of clerics might be a real pain.
Finarin Panjoro 05-19-07, 10:45 PM	This could be a help to you. I introduced a fighter only feat called Skill Emphasis this allows the fighter to select any of the +2/+2 skill boost feats (alertness, stealthy, magical aptitude, etc) and in addition to the bonus it makes both of the the boosted skills fighter class skills. This would let each fighter in your group have a different skill specialty and a different function within your campaign. I'd recommend they each take something like: SE: Negotiator (Diplomacy and Sense Motive) the party face SE: Self- Sufficient (Heal and Survival), the party healer and tracker SE: Magical Aptitude (Spellcraft and Use Magic Device) the party wand and magic item user SE: Stealthy (Hide and Move Silently) the party sneak (probably an archer or other dex based fighter type). Have fun!
Dragoloth 05-20-07, 12:54 AM	Sounds great to me. This actually gives you some good encounter possibilities. I say let them do it and have fun with it.
zzo38 05-20-07, 01:13 AM	I say, ignore the fact that it is all fighters. Play the game normally, and hope the players are smart enough to figure out how to get by things that mostly fighters don't do. Also they could hire NPCs and stuff. But, if they do get killed from such things as all 4 fighters, you could tell them next time recomend making not all same classes. If they continue making 4 fighters again then they have to understand how to survive in such situtations.
Dazzer 05-20-07, 03:57 AM	If all four are actually playing, the FIGHTER base class. Keep in mind, they'll probably be useless in social situations, barring with animals, and scaring people into saying useful things. Barring smart cross-class selection, they know nothing about magic, monsters, society, famous people, anything. They have no knowledges and must act upon COMMON KNOWLEDGE and INSTINCT, alone. You will have to feed them information from NPC's for them to know anything about monsters if they don't cross-class some knowledges. Perhaps you should make a chart paying NPC's for knowledge that an NPC might know? Or at least come up with some basic figures. Ironically enough considering the above. The only situation in which your fighters will shine, is fighting the monsters they know nothing about. Funny don't you think? Because of these things, I would suggest that if they all insist on playing fighters, suggest the following. Variant Fighter: THUG Loses Armour proficiency medium/heavy, tower shield proficiency. Loses: Bonus fighter feat at level 1 Gains: 4+ int skills Gather information, knowledge local, sense motive, sleight of hand Can take urban tracking as a fighter bonus feat. The above variant is IDENTICAL to the fighter in every other way except as mentioned above. Unless you want your game to be pure hacknslash, which it will probably become because 4 fighters will not go into the business of social delegation. They will search out things they are good at doing, like fighting. Suggest the following PrC's. Suggest prestige classes, which expand their repetoire of abilities. The pious templar will make a fighter lose 3 bonus feats, but gain paladin spells and some special abilities. A kensai (complete warrior) fighter is also very cool, awesome weapon and bonuses on social abilities. A particular favourite of mine, is the Occult Slayer, 5 levels, gains bonuses against casters (which will be hard for them to contend with) Suggest the Feat: Signature Skill, This feat grants a +2 bonus when using a particular skill, it also makes the skill a class skill regardless of your class. As an example, a fighter could take signature skill Decipher Script, and treat that skill as a class skill for the rest of his life. He also gains a +2 bonus when using it! This is especially useful, since a 4 fighter party will be quite bland on skill selection barring Godly (DM) intervention. Good choices would be, spellcraft, heal, balance or a social skill or two. Note, that these fighters will be useless against traps, healing eachother (without the use of items). They don't have a cleric or any kind of healer. A universal rule for most parties, is that without a cleric, you cannot expect them to last the distance in a very long series of encounters. They just don't have the ability to recuperate quickly. At high levels, they are expected to do things like hack their way through the 10 ogres, beat the 10 headed pyro-hydra, murder the 6 vampire spawn minions which all happen to have 6 levels in wizard or cleric to boot, and then kill the vampire and his lich companion. Without a healer, two or three critical hits could stop these guys at the ogres. However, as they are all fighters, their combat options will be, or will become, enormous. You'll be working around grapples, disarms, trips, bullrushes, over-runs, mounted trampling, sundering, power attacking, cleaving, whirlwinding, and a bunch more cool stuff that sometimes gets neglected in a campaign. Make encounters where these things get highlighted. The difference in Daves fighter from the others, is that he's the only one who SPECIALIZED in tripping. Make a monster that if not tripped gets 8 attacks per round, when tripped, 1 attack if it gets up, or 4 AoP's if it doesn't (carrion crawler is a good one for this!). It will highlight his usefulness. Make opponents use these options ALOT, as fighters, they will either be good at defending against them, or will soon learn to take feats to BE good against them, it isn't like they are lacking. Since they are all playing fighters, you should suggest to them, that they broaden their techniques AS FAR apart from eachother as they can get. My suggestion would be A reach weapon specialist (halberd is good) A defensive specialist (AC build, hitpoints, enduring, combat reflexes!!!) A ranged specialist (fear the fighter with manyshot, and a hundred damage extra from feats....and a strength bow...that's magical...fear him alot...rogue sneak attack soon means very little...you'll see.) (He must wear a buckler...read it's description in the PhB, excellent shield) A general fighter, a good one for this, is he doesn't specialise in any weapon PER SAY although he could, if he does suggest a weapon that can be thrown and used effectively in melee, so he has options. Improved unarmed strike is great for this kindof fighter, as is a stunning fist, taken as a normal feat. Suggest he use a buckler since with Impr. Unarmed, Deflect arrows, and a melee weapon in his other hand, all the other shields means he can't use deflect arrows, with a buckler he can. Also a buckler can be used with a bow of any kind without penalty. These are all suggestions, not word of law. Take heed of any of them you want, and ignore any you want to. I stress I am not telling you how to run, I'm simply giving you advice, sometimes in the form of how I would do it! Have Fun, that's the main idea anyways!
JulesCARV 05-20-07, 04:24 AM	Are any of them charismatic? If so, you might consider allowing them to take the leadership feat by level 6 (and mention that, hey, they don't have to take it, but you'll certainly be accomodating if they want to take it). As for levels 1-5, (or 6+ if they all decide to skip leadership, or take more fighters as cohorts), that'll be tough, but it could work if they're smart.
Sunic_Flames 05-20-07, 01:17 PM	By the way, there's an item in the Magic Item Compendium called a Healing Belt. 3 charges a day, replenished at dawn and can use 1-3 charges at once. 1 charge = 2d8 healing, 2 charges = 3d8 healing, 3 charges = 4d8 healing. Only costs 750 gp, so you could reasonably let em have it around level 3, and potions in the meantime.
loaba 05-20-07, 01:43 PM	First of all, I'm completely jealous. I would love to run/play in a group of Fighters (absolutely my favorite class in the game). You've gotten tons of useful advice, the only thing I can think to as is this; don't forget multiclassing! As the game progresses, don't be afraid to point out neat multiclassing options for these developing Fighters. I'm seeing Fighter/Cleric and Fighter/Rogue as natural progressions, maybe even a Gish.