A Helping Hand? [Archive] - Wizards Community

A Helping Hand? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Blackened_Blade
07-31-07, 02:24 PM Hey all,

I have a question for all of you: How do you react to players trying to assist you? For our upcoming campaign, we’ll be set in Menzoberanzan. I will not be the Dungeon Master, however. The problem, as I see it, is that I happen to know way to much about the city and Drow culture. The current DM is under-equipped run this campaign, at least from my perspective. So, I have taken the liberty of procuring a number of concise documents on Drow culture and Menzoberanzan at large.

Everything from name generators to descriptions of architecture, you name it and I probably have it. I’ve written plot summaries, several detailed examinations of Drow Houses and important corporate entities in the city, and NPC background. But therein lies a problem: I know more than the DM. I don’t want to hijack the campaign and be the DM because:

1) I’ve been looking forward to a Menzoberanzan based campaign for too long.
2) It’s the guy’s first tour as a DM, and I don’t want to crush his soul.

I’ve tried to take this all into account by engineering a character that would have a pretty good reason to have this knowledge. In fact, he’ll appear in the character development forum for a critique of his RP to Game Power value in a few days. But I just want Dungeon Master opinions of the situation before I start giving my current DM all this information to work with. Your appraisal of the situation would be most helpful.

Thank You
Lazigothi
07-31-07, 03:56 PM I think your help seems very generous, but I'd still approach the DM cautiously. Being new, this DM will possibly either find the help overwhelming/ intimidating or will misconstrue the help as back-seat driving. The question itself is harmless, and the DM should let you know if the help is needed and appreciated. I'm hoping you are also communicating with the DM regarding your own designs for your character. If your DM knows that your character's knowledge will surpass his, will he take in character input as cues or as a coup?

The other thing to keep in mind that even with all of the fluff and crunch you might provide, the DM has the prerogative to alter something. The incentive might be to alter some things at least to create some sort of surprise and mystery for you.
Kouk
07-31-07, 04:15 PM I think your help seems very generous, but I'd still approach the DM cautiously. Being new, this DM will possibly either find the help overwhelming/ intimidating or will misconstrue the help as back-seat driving. The question itself is harmless, and the DM should let you know if the help is needed and appreciated. I'm hoping you are also communicating with the DM regarding your own designs for your character. If your DM knows that your character's knowledge will surpass his, will he take in character input as cues or as a coup?

The other thing to keep in mind that even with all of the fluff and crunch you might provide, the DM has the prerogative to alter something. The incentive might be to alter some things at least to create some sort of surprise and mystery for you.

Quoted for Truth.

Ask him if he wants some help. If he doesn't, then that's the end.

You should also ask about having a character that "knows" things that the DM doesn't even know, I would be very careful that you don't make things too obvious for the other players or give things away. Knowing too much may just lead to your own frustration "But I should be able to buy this special item, because obviously all drow have it!".

I would recommend making a normal character and just trying to bear with it no matter how badly the drow culture might be "butchered" -- if you want it to be faithfully presented as written then you should DM it yourself. This guy is probably not going to be anywhere near faithfully presenting anything if he is new, he is likely to only know what the adventure tells him.

A player knowing more about a topic than the DM is discussed in the DMG2 I believe. It says it can be good that the players are excited about the world, but it can also be bad because they will try to steer things too much by knowing all the "important" people and places.

Any time you are under a DM that is using published campaign settings or material, you should expect it to be his version, and not the "real" version.
Blackened_Blade
07-31-07, 05:13 PM Well, I guess I should try and put my situation into context.

Basically, I had been running a campaign across Faerūn with this batch of players. The current DM was one of the players. Now the party, in their far wanderings across the Forgotten Realms came across numerous portholes (they’re all over the place in the Realms). One such porthole transported them to Sshamath, the City of Dark Weavings. Well, they had a ball in their short stay there. I’m not sure if it was the intrigue or the utterly alien nature of the Drow, but they did enjoy it.

The current DM had always been interested in being a dungeon master, but had never been one. I promised him that I would let him be the dungeon master in an upcoming campaign and that I would provide technical support (tips like, how to organize binders, note cards, making readable stat blocks…). I actually started prepping him before the campaign ended. From an organizational perspective, I think that he’s ready for the job.

I told him that a prefab adventure would be a good first choice, but I guess that Sshamath had caught his attention more than any of the current modules. He knew that the other players were looking forward to a grand Underdark adventure as well. So, I gave him my DM guides, the Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting, and The Underdark supplement and wished him luck. Naturally, he figured out that Menzoberanzan was the ‘capital’ Drow city on Faerūn.

This could go either really well, or really badly. Since I know he has the mechanical aspect of being a DM in hand, there would only be the artistic nature left to grasp…which is something that you can’t teach. I figure he’s got a campaign ready that makes sense. I’m not really afraid of that. What I want to do with this information is to try to maximize artistic output. I want to ensure that he understands that Drow minds do not work like normal peoples’. Things will be a lot more random and self-centered. More to the point, the plots and conspiracies will be far more insane and far more cunning than what he’s used to dealing with as a player. I don’t want to direct his campaign from my position as a player. I just want to make sure that he has all the correct tools at his disposal to make the campaign as ‘realistic’ and as fun as it can be for all parties involved.

I hope that I’ve explained this well enough.
DoveArrow
07-31-07, 05:27 PM I think you should ask him if he would like you to send him the materials. If he says yes, then send it out. However, keep in mind, that even though he'll have all of this information, his vision of the world is still likely going to be radically different from yours. Just be aware of that fact, and when your views of the world conflict, try not to go all fanboy on him.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Blackened_Blade 07-31-07, 02:24 PM	Hey all, I have a question for all of you: How do you react to players trying to assist you? For our upcoming campaign, we’ll be set in Menzoberanzan. I will not be the Dungeon Master, however. The problem, as I see it, is that I happen to know way to much about the city and Drow culture. The current DM is under-equipped run this campaign, at least from my perspective. So, I have taken the liberty of procuring a number of concise documents on Drow culture and Menzoberanzan at large. Everything from name generators to descriptions of architecture, you name it and I probably have it. I’ve written plot summaries, several detailed examinations of Drow Houses and important corporate entities in the city, and NPC background. But therein lies a problem: I know more than the DM. I don’t want to hijack the campaign and be the DM because: 1) I’ve been looking forward to a Menzoberanzan based campaign for too long. 2) It’s the guy’s first tour as a DM, and I don’t want to crush his soul. I’ve tried to take this all into account by engineering a character that would have a pretty good reason to have this knowledge. In fact, he’ll appear in the character development forum for a critique of his RP to Game Power value in a few days. But I just want Dungeon Master opinions of the situation before I start giving my current DM all this information to work with. Your appraisal of the situation would be most helpful. Thank You
Lazigothi 07-31-07, 03:56 PM	I think your help seems very generous, but I'd still approach the DM cautiously. Being new, this DM will possibly either find the help overwhelming/ intimidating or will misconstrue the help as back-seat driving. The question itself is harmless, and the DM should let you know if the help is needed and appreciated. I'm hoping you are also communicating with the DM regarding your own designs for your character. If your DM knows that your character's knowledge will surpass his, will he take in character input as cues or as a coup? The other thing to keep in mind that even with all of the fluff and crunch you might provide, the DM has the prerogative to alter something. The incentive might be to alter some things at least to create some sort of surprise and mystery for you.
Kouk 07-31-07, 04:15 PM	I think your help seems very generous, but I'd still approach the DM cautiously. Being new, this DM will possibly either find the help overwhelming/ intimidating or will misconstrue the help as back-seat driving. The question itself is harmless, and the DM should let you know if the help is needed and appreciated. I'm hoping you are also communicating with the DM regarding your own designs for your character. If your DM knows that your character's knowledge will surpass his, will he take in character input as cues or as a coup? The other thing to keep in mind that even with all of the fluff and crunch you might provide, the DM has the prerogative to alter something. The incentive might be to alter some things at least to create some sort of surprise and mystery for you. Quoted for Truth. Ask him if he wants some help. If he doesn't, then that's the end. You should also ask about having a character that "knows" things that the DM doesn't even know, I would be very careful that you don't make things too obvious for the other players or give things away. Knowing too much may just lead to your own frustration "But I should be able to buy this special item, because obviously all drow have it!". I would recommend making a normal character and just trying to bear with it no matter how badly the drow culture might be "butchered" -- if you want it to be faithfully presented as written then you should DM it yourself. This guy is probably not going to be anywhere near faithfully presenting anything if he is new, he is likely to only know what the adventure tells him. A player knowing more about a topic than the DM is discussed in the DMG2 I believe. It says it can be good that the players are excited about the world, but it can also be bad because they will try to steer things too much by knowing all the "important" people and places. Any time you are under a DM that is using published campaign settings or material, you should expect it to be his version, and not the "real" version.
Blackened_Blade 07-31-07, 05:13 PM	Well, I guess I should try and put my situation into context. Basically, I had been running a campaign across Faerūn with this batch of players. The current DM was one of the players. Now the party, in their far wanderings across the Forgotten Realms came across numerous portholes (they’re all over the place in the Realms). One such porthole transported them to Sshamath, the City of Dark Weavings. Well, they had a ball in their short stay there. I’m not sure if it was the intrigue or the utterly alien nature of the Drow, but they did enjoy it. The current DM had always been interested in being a dungeon master, but had never been one. I promised him that I would let him be the dungeon master in an upcoming campaign and that I would provide technical support (tips like, how to organize binders, note cards, making readable stat blocks…). I actually started prepping him before the campaign ended. From an organizational perspective, I think that he’s ready for the job. I told him that a prefab adventure would be a good first choice, but I guess that Sshamath had caught his attention more than any of the current modules. He knew that the other players were looking forward to a grand Underdark adventure as well. So, I gave him my DM guides, the Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting, and The Underdark supplement and wished him luck. Naturally, he figured out that Menzoberanzan was the ‘capital’ Drow city on Faerūn. This could go either really well, or really badly. Since I know he has the mechanical aspect of being a DM in hand, there would only be the artistic nature left to grasp…which is something that you can’t teach. I figure he’s got a campaign ready that makes sense. I’m not really afraid of that. What I want to do with this information is to try to maximize artistic output. I want to ensure that he understands that Drow minds do not work like normal peoples’. Things will be a lot more random and self-centered. More to the point, the plots and conspiracies will be far more insane and far more cunning than what he’s used to dealing with as a player. I don’t want to direct his campaign from my position as a player. I just want to make sure that he has all the correct tools at his disposal to make the campaign as ‘realistic’ and as fun as it can be for all parties involved. I hope that I’ve explained this well enough.
DoveArrow 07-31-07, 05:27 PM	I think you should ask him if he would like you to send him the materials. If he says yes, then send it out. However, keep in mind, that even though he'll have all of this information, his vision of the world is still likely going to be radically different from yours. Just be aware of that fact, and when your views of the world conflict, try not to go all fanboy on him.