a horse as a familiar? [Archive] - Wizards Community

a horse as a familiar? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
NecroticBanana
08-21-06, 02:08 AM one of my players asked if it would be possible to have a horse as a familiar. any suggestions on what it might grant him, and should i make him take imp. familiar feat?
Eela6
08-21-06, 02:23 AM Seems to me this one would be pretty simple.

+3 on Ride Checks. Alternatively, +2 on Fort [heavy horse] or Reflex [Light Horse] could work.

A Horse shouldn't really be an improved familiar, unless it's an especially powerful or unique horse [such as the Valenar riding horses in Eberron]. While a Horse may seem useful, you can get one for hours a day by utilizing a first level Sor/Wiz spell (which this player will have), and you can buy them cheaply. In addition, unlike, say, a Hawk, it doesn't have absurd skill bonuses [+16 spot, anyone?]

In addition, a horse is a large target and the penalties for losing a familiar are immense, so your Player will have to actually care for his mount rather than treating it like a damage sponge [as many players seem to do with their animals/mounts].

I'd reward your player's initative and give him the horse. It's less useful than many familiars and seems like an interesting and different familiar.
KmartKommando
08-21-06, 02:40 AM That's just asking for a gish mounted combat expert that you'll have a heck of a time taking the mount out from under him. Improved Evasion, share spells, deliver touch spells, master's BAB.. and that's just at low levels.
stargate525
08-21-06, 03:11 AM That's just asking for a gish mounted combat expert that you'll have a heck of a time taking the mount out from under him. Improved Evasion, share spells, deliver touch spells, master's BAB.. and that's just at low levels.
I dunno, it's not like the thing can come into the dungeons with him, and alot of that stuff has to be within certain distance. Stick him somewhere inside and that's negated.

also, unless he puts barding on the thing, it is a large creature, and probably not difficult to hit.
Gedrin
08-21-06, 04:30 AM A horse is a bit larger and more physically powerful than other familiars listed. In exchange, I'd say he doesn't get any special bonuses from the familiar itself. However, I would grant a +2 to +4 Circumstance Modifier to all Ride checks when the caster is on his familiar due to the empathy and extraordinary intelect.

As a side note, I have to say that it wouldn't be the first time we saw a story where the wizard had a horse as an animal companion of sorts.
Pandaemoni
08-21-06, 09:06 AM A horse is a bit larger and more physically powerful than other familiars listed. In exchange, I'd say he doesn't get any special bonuses from the familiar itself. However, I would grant a +2 to +4 Circumstance Modifier to all Ride checks when the caster is on his familiar due to the empathy and extraordinary intelect.

I agree that a horse is definitely far too powerful to be one of the "regular" familiars, but it's your game.

A regular horse would be a good Improved Familiar for "caster level 1". As you caster level increases the Improved Familiar feat gives you access to more and more powerful types of creatures. If your player is of higher level than 1st, you could always add a template to the horse to make it more "worth the feat." For example, making it a dire horse, celestial horse, fiendish horse, feral horse (Savage Species), spell warped horse (MMIII), spell-stiched horse (MMII, for evil PCs), topiary horse (MMIII), horse effigy (Complete Arcane)...or even (at *very* high levels) a legendary horse (MMII).
wrecan
08-21-06, 09:39 AM I agree with pandaemoni. A horse familiar is a potent familiar, despite it's large size.

As the mage increases in level, the horse not only shares spells and saves, it gets improved natural armor and intelligence (and thus more skill points)

As with other improved familiars, having an improved familiar is benefit enough. he doesn't also need a bonus to his skills. Essentially, with the Improved Familiar feat, a familiar is transformed into an arcane animal companion with a closer empathic bond.
DarkLiChNeaZur
08-21-06, 10:01 AM why not.... i mean its a horse not like a great wyrm, its not an outrageous request, it wont help too much in combat but sure why not.
olshanski_home
08-24-06, 10:12 AM A familiar is generally 2-3 sizes smaller than the master. An improved familiar is generally 1-2 sizes smaller than the master.

A horse (large) is a decent familiar for a creature that is Gargantuan.

There is no way that a horse is in the same ball park as a toad, rat, or raven.

On the other hand, if you are a monty haul DM playing with a bunch of muchkins, and you have no problems handing out artifacts at about 5th level (deck of many things), then go ahead, it will fit right in your game.
Andorxor
08-24-06, 05:07 PM He risk his XP a horse is easier to hit than a snake or raven,takes a familar without bonus or fighting skills for something that he could easily buy without this drawbacks and you call the DM a monty haul DM if he gives it to him?
Toloran
08-24-06, 05:14 PM Other then a strict technicality (familiars are supposed to be MUCH smaller then that), I see nothing wrong with that. The bonuses (being able to use it as a mount) are completely off set by the side effects (it being a HUGE target). In addition, if it dies it cannot be replaced for a year and a day. However, I would rule he is limited to a light horse (not a heavy or war horse) at the very most.
arjomanes
08-24-06, 05:16 PM A familiar is generally 2-3 sizes smaller than the master. An improved familiar is generally 1-2 sizes smaller than the master.

A horse (large) is a decent familiar for a creature that is Gargantuan.

There is no way that a horse is in the same ball park as a toad, rat, or raven.

On the other hand, if you are a monty haul DM playing with a bunch of muchkins, and you have no problems handing out artifacts at about 5th level (deck of many things), then go ahead, it will fit right in your game.

This is a ridiculous comparison. A horse as a familiar truly will not be game-breaking in any way. If it makes you more comfortable, make him take the Improved Familiar feat.
pres_man
08-24-06, 05:17 PM No you may not have a horse familiar, especially one named Shadowfax, and no your wizard can not have the name Gandalf. ;)
olshanski_home
08-24-06, 05:39 PM A horse as a familiar truly will not be game-breaking in any way. If it makes you more comfortable, make him take the Improved Familiar feat.A horse familiar most certainly is game breaking. There are some very abusive things you can do with familiars, especially when you take only 1 level of wizard or sorcerer.

There is a section of the DMG that describes familiars for oversize (or undersize) wizards.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
NecroticBanana 08-21-06, 02:08 AM	one of my players asked if it would be possible to have a horse as a familiar. any suggestions on what it might grant him, and should i make him take imp. familiar feat?
Eela6 08-21-06, 02:23 AM	Seems to me this one would be pretty simple. +3 on Ride Checks. Alternatively, +2 on Fort [heavy horse] or Reflex [Light Horse] could work. A Horse shouldn't really be an improved familiar, unless it's an especially powerful or unique horse [such as the Valenar riding horses in Eberron]. While a Horse may seem useful, you can get one for hours a day by utilizing a first level Sor/Wiz spell (which this player will have), and you can buy them cheaply. In addition, unlike, say, a Hawk, it doesn't have absurd skill bonuses [+16 spot, anyone?] In addition, a horse is a large target and the penalties for losing a familiar are immense, so your Player will have to actually care for his mount rather than treating it like a damage sponge [as many players seem to do with their animals/mounts]. I'd reward your player's initative and give him the horse. It's less useful than many familiars and seems like an interesting and different familiar.
KmartKommando 08-21-06, 02:40 AM	That's just asking for a gish mounted combat expert that you'll have a heck of a time taking the mount out from under him. Improved Evasion, share spells, deliver touch spells, master's BAB.. and that's just at low levels.
stargate525 08-21-06, 03:11 AM	That's just asking for a gish mounted combat expert that you'll have a heck of a time taking the mount out from under him. Improved Evasion, share spells, deliver touch spells, master's BAB.. and that's just at low levels. I dunno, it's not like the thing can come into the dungeons with him, and alot of that stuff has to be within certain distance. Stick him somewhere inside and that's negated. also, unless he puts barding on the thing, it is a large creature, and probably not difficult to hit.
Gedrin 08-21-06, 04:30 AM	A horse is a bit larger and more physically powerful than other familiars listed. In exchange, I'd say he doesn't get any special bonuses from the familiar itself. However, I would grant a +2 to +4 Circumstance Modifier to all Ride checks when the caster is on his familiar due to the empathy and extraordinary intelect. As a side note, I have to say that it wouldn't be the first time we saw a story where the wizard had a horse as an animal companion of sorts.
Pandaemoni 08-21-06, 09:06 AM	A horse is a bit larger and more physically powerful than other familiars listed. In exchange, I'd say he doesn't get any special bonuses from the familiar itself. However, I would grant a +2 to +4 Circumstance Modifier to all Ride checks when the caster is on his familiar due to the empathy and extraordinary intelect. I agree that a horse is definitely far too powerful to be one of the "regular" familiars, but it's your game. A regular horse would be a good Improved Familiar for "caster level 1". As you caster level increases the Improved Familiar feat gives you access to more and more powerful types of creatures. If your player is of higher level than 1st, you could always add a template to the horse to make it more "worth the feat." For example, making it a dire horse, celestial horse, fiendish horse, feral horse (Savage Species), spell warped horse (MMIII), spell-stiched horse (MMII, for evil PCs), topiary horse (MMIII), horse effigy (Complete Arcane)...or even (at very high levels) a legendary horse (MMII).
wrecan 08-21-06, 09:39 AM	I agree with pandaemoni. A horse familiar is a potent familiar, despite it's large size. As the mage increases in level, the horse not only shares spells and saves, it gets improved natural armor and intelligence (and thus more skill points) As with other improved familiars, having an improved familiar is benefit enough. he doesn't also need a bonus to his skills. Essentially, with the Improved Familiar feat, a familiar is transformed into an arcane animal companion with a closer empathic bond.
DarkLiChNeaZur 08-21-06, 10:01 AM	why not.... i mean its a horse not like a great wyrm, its not an outrageous request, it wont help too much in combat but sure why not.
olshanski_home 08-24-06, 10:12 AM	A familiar is generally 2-3 sizes smaller than the master. An improved familiar is generally 1-2 sizes smaller than the master. A horse (large) is a decent familiar for a creature that is Gargantuan. There is no way that a horse is in the same ball park as a toad, rat, or raven. On the other hand, if you are a monty haul DM playing with a bunch of muchkins, and you have no problems handing out artifacts at about 5th level (deck of many things), then go ahead, it will fit right in your game.
Andorxor 08-24-06, 05:07 PM	He risk his XP a horse is easier to hit than a snake or raven,takes a familar without bonus or fighting skills for something that he could easily buy without this drawbacks and you call the DM a monty haul DM if he gives it to him?
Toloran 08-24-06, 05:14 PM	Other then a strict technicality (familiars are supposed to be MUCH smaller then that), I see nothing wrong with that. The bonuses (being able to use it as a mount) are completely off set by the side effects (it being a HUGE target). In addition, if it dies it cannot be replaced for a year and a day. However, I would rule he is limited to a light horse (not a heavy or war horse) at the very most.
arjomanes 08-24-06, 05:16 PM	A familiar is generally 2-3 sizes smaller than the master. An improved familiar is generally 1-2 sizes smaller than the master. A horse (large) is a decent familiar for a creature that is Gargantuan. There is no way that a horse is in the same ball park as a toad, rat, or raven. On the other hand, if you are a monty haul DM playing with a bunch of muchkins, and you have no problems handing out artifacts at about 5th level (deck of many things), then go ahead, it will fit right in your game. This is a ridiculous comparison. A horse as a familiar truly will not be game-breaking in any way. If it makes you more comfortable, make him take the Improved Familiar feat.
pres_man 08-24-06, 05:17 PM	No you may not have a horse familiar, especially one named Shadowfax, and no your wizard can not have the name Gandalf. ;)
olshanski_home 08-24-06, 05:39 PM	A horse as a familiar truly will not be game-breaking in any way. If it makes you more comfortable, make him take the Improved Familiar feat.A horse familiar most certainly is game breaking. There are some very abusive things you can do with familiars, especially when you take only 1 level of wizard or sorcerer. There is a section of the DMG that describes familiars for oversize (or undersize) wizards.