Post/Author/DateTime	Post
The Soul Collector 01-22-06, 09:16 PM	Hello everyone, I've been gaming for well over 10 years now. I'm a pretty hard-core D&D gamer by most opinions, and I play regularly with two friends of mine on the weekend. For a while now, well over 2 months, that same since of excitement while gaming is gone. I don't feel as exhilarated as I did when I was younger. Not just as a player, but as a DM. To make things even stranger, I buy every 3.5 book (besides Eberron) that comes out and I read these books for leisure whenever I have the time, even if I know I'll never use the material. I just love reading the books, it gets my mind going on how fun it would be to explore some new character concept, class or race. However, when I sit down at the gaming table, that sense of excitement, even if I just had in an hour ago when I was reading a book...goes away. I don't understand it. Has anyone else felt like this? Did you discover what was wrong or missing and did you fix it?
RK)13 01-22-06, 09:21 PM	Yeah, I get what you're talking about. happened to me a couple of times... have been playing for 13 years, DMing for 12 of those. I read the splat books for fun too, and everything. Very similar story. I find that, for me, playing something different every so often helps. My current gaming group will mix D&D with D20 modern, heroclix, and, every so often, Mutants and Masterminds. It really helps freshen me for D&D. Hope it helps.
celtredleg 01-22-06, 10:46 PM	I have played for 29 years now. I am currently go through jsut what you have desribed. For me, I know the solution, find a game I can be a player in. It has been about a year and a half since Iplayed and I know I need to get back in. What drives me crazy though is that I cant just quit. I wont shut down the games I have going. I still put in effort on my DND games and the players are still haveing fun. I just feel myself to be flat. Oddly, the one game I am haveing fun with is a Runequest game I am running for my daughter and a couple of her friends. Thier excitement and enthusiasm rubs off.
Lord Ian Stark 01-22-06, 10:53 PM	Sounds like your problem is not the game but the implementation. You read the books, your imagination soars, then you sit at the table and it's boring. Perhaps going to the game store and seeing how other groups play may help. What sparks our game is everyonce in awhile we play a different/wierd game where we'll all be goblin characters or some other race. Changes the game style up and makes youwant to think how you can make a decent classed Goblin. Have them work for a dragon that will eat them if they disobey or screw up. Just a thought.
Setzertrancer 01-22-06, 10:57 PM	A similar thing happens to me although it's normally the players that bring my mood down when they play an adventure i've though up as they arn't as interested in it as i imagined before the game
Board_Rider 01-23-06, 12:33 AM	I would recommend simply taking some time off. Seriously. Maybe not a long, long time but maybe a month or two. Let your ideas and imagination soar awhile before crashing down to the "reality" of the game.
Edymnion 01-23-06, 12:58 AM	I'd also suggest that you stop avoiding Eberron. The default settings like Greyhawk and Faerun are getting old and musty, where Eberron is a breath of fresh air. I was on the verge of just quitting D&D altogether it was getting so old and repetative. Eberron is the reason I'm still here. But other than that, I'd suggest you take a break, or ramp things back a bit. It is possible to burn yourself out. Nothing wrong with taking a year or two off from playing in order to build things back up. Or you could try playing online in a Play by Post setup, like over on RPOL.net, where its not a "sit down and play" thing, but a sort of always on thing that you check in on when you're in the mood and play. Turn the game into more of a leisurely background passtime than an active "gotta be there on time for X hours!" thing. Or, you could try changing systems for a while. Give D&D a rest. Give the d20 system as a whole a rest. Go try White Wolf, or BESM Tri-Stat, or one of those systems a go for a while.
The Soul Collector 01-23-06, 04:06 AM	Wow, I honestly didn't expect such great feedback, thanks so much guys. I really don't want to quit the game for a great period of time though. I truly love the game...well, that is, when I read the books and check out the whole in-depth character concepts that come out in new books, I start to think how much fun it would be to dive into Incarium magic, or maybe becoming a Dragon Reborn and hell, I usually love to re-read my old book and always imagine trying out one of those anthropmorphic creatures (yeah, I know they are broken). I love the Greyhawk, Fauren settings, I really do. I don't understand why I can't bring that same sense of excitement to the table. It really does help that there are some of you out there that completely understand where I'm coming from.
Ulrich Valdemont 01-23-06, 05:21 AM	Yeah, I guess it's not easy to keep up the same level of excitement for 10+ years. It's only natural. Perhaps, I don't know, your fellow players are right now experiencing the same thing. I do recognise what celtredleg said about a groups enthousiasm and how it can rub off. The opposite can also be possible. This may very well be a temporary situation though. I like the suggestion from Lord Ian Stark, to play something very different for a change. An evil campaign, a monster campaign, a rogue campaign. Something you agree on to let it run wild. Something destined to derail. It can be beatyful to watch something get completely out of control and explode.
Millennium 01-23-06, 09:10 AM	I do the same thing as you, in many cases: I get almost as much enjoyment from reading the books and seeing how they're put together as I do from actually playing the game. Draconomicon may be the best book Wizards has ever released for that sort of thing, though I'm also a fan of Magic of Incarnum for that. In general, when boredom sets in, there are a few things you can do. Others have already mentioned taking a little time off, or watching other groups play. You might even consider joining a different group for a little while, to see how they do things. Playing another system for a little while can also be surprisingly eye-opening, particularly if it's not in a genre you typically use. The other thing you can do, and this is my favorite method, is to experiment: do something wildly outside the typical norms. I'm working up a homebrew setting which leans very heavily on the alternative materials presented in Magic of Incarnum, Dungeon Master's Guide II, and Unearthed Arcana. I'm still fleshing out details, but the idea is that the world is relatively young, and up until about 50 years ago it was closed off to the multiverse. Until that time, the world was rich in incarnum, but there were no true spellcasters. "Traditional" magic and psionics have only come into the world recently, using spelljamming or the plane of Shadow. Everything from the core books is allowed, of course, but all of the core races and the core spellcasting classes are aliens in this strange new world, while incarnum is the 'native' magic. Everything this world has ever known is being turned upside down at a breakneck pace: how will things unfold? I'm having an absolute blast designing this world, and I can't wait to give it a good playtest. You've mentioned doing some experiments of your own, and that may be exactly what you need.
Romanus_Mortus 01-24-06, 01:43 PM	I am currently in a bit of a funk also - My problem is eerily similar to what you've described. I read through books for hours on end, memorizing tables, looking at the purdie pictures, thinking up new adventure ideas. But I never even make it to the table. I play as a character in other games and have a good time, but as a DM I am bogged down. I have spent the last couple months making a massive homebrew world. Four all-new playable races to replace the traditional races (only human stayed in), a complete new pantheon. Complete set of new prestige classes. Made probably about 100 NPCs, tons of cities, detailed maps, worked out travel times, wrote more history than I could ever hope to get to share with the PCs via normal gameplay. Then it comes time to make a dungeon, or actually put together one of the many many encounters I have thought up, and I just stare at my laptop. It's a strugle just to put together two rooms in a dungeon. I think for me, part of the problem is that I've been DMing for so long (10+ years, almost non stop), that it's become purely academic for me. I love the ideas and the world building aspects, but I get really bored putting in another stuck wooden door, or figuring out how much treasure to put in the den of that minotaur ranger who hunts in the south reaches of the woods. The game is still great for me, but I get bored really quickly when it comes time to reference yet another table, or calculate yet another ECL for an encounter...sound familiar to anyone? More advice would be nice too...(I think the DM Doldrums are a common affliction)
Illion the Red 01-24-06, 02:03 PM	I've been playing D&D for somewhere around a quarter-century. Ruts, funks, and burnouts are common. The best method I have found for getting past them is to find a new group to play with. This almost always sparks me. It doesn't matter if I'm DM or Player, it usually works. The infusion of different playing styles, personalities, and experiences should return the "newness factor" to your game. The only time this completely failed on me was when I joined a game run at the local comic shop. The combination of bad DM and horrible Players with the added "Let's spend half the session talking about my new Dragonball Z deck" almost scared me away from trying to find new Players and games...almost.
oxybe 01-24-06, 02:21 PM	Romanus_Mortus, I've been playing and DMing for only 5 years and I already have the funk. most of the 5 years has been spent DM'ing since there are few players around with the handbooks or time to study them enough to be DM. I find that the best way to let off steam and get back in the groove is either: A) play a console RPG. Dragon Quest 8 is my current non-campaign game. good stuff, nice visuals and the game's story is a laugh riot (EVERYONE in the game have a irish/british-ish accent. Yangus' heavy accent with "Cor Blimey!" thrown in every time he's surprised never fails to make me laugh. I love the game). many console games have ideas you can borrow from. other good ones are: -Final Fantasy 4, 5, 6, 7. the SNES era of FF was the best IMO, along with #7 for the PSone -Suikoden series. the games have a very "large scale" feel to them. a recent game from SquareEnix in the Suikoden vein is radiata stories. not the best RPG but by far not the worse. -the X-Men Legends are top notch gaming if you have a few buddies over (watch out though, some chars are overpowered a bit too much... i remember a little stunt with Wolvie, Cyc, Sorm and Collossus where we beat the final boss[and any boss really] in less then 10 seconds by button mashing our strongest powers in combos... cheap? yes, but funny like hell though) -Breath of Fire series, most all of it. real nice series, high fantasy D&D esque in my opinion. the 2nd one is fresh in memory, and my fave. B)read a good book or movie. unfortunately, i haven't read a good book in a long time, but any of the classics can do quite nicely (not just fantasy classics, the stuff your english teacher made you read in high school and university. olde englishe like shakespear is also good reading for ideas and simply because it's a great read).
Romanus_Mortus 01-24-06, 03:10 PM	Romanus_Mortus, I've been playing and DMing for only 5 years and I already have the funk. most of the 5 years has been spent DM'ing since there are few players around with the handbooks or time to study them enough to be DM. I find that the best way to let off steam and get back in the groove is either: A) play a console RPG. Dragon Quest 8 is my current non-campaign game. good stuff, nice visuals and the game's story is a laugh riot (EVERYONE in the game have a irish/british-ish accent. Yangus' heavy accent with "Cor Blimey!" thrown in every time he's surprised never fails to make me laugh. I love the game). many console games have ideas you can borrow from. other good ones are: -Final Fantasy 4, 5, 6, 7. the SNES era of FF was the best IMO, along with #7 for the PSone -Suikoden series. the games have a very "large scale" feel to them. a recent game from SquareEnix in the Suikoden vein is radiata stories. not the best RPG but by far not the worse. -the X-Men Legends are top notch gaming if you have a few buddies over (watch out though, some chars are overpowered a bit too much... i remember a little stunt with Wolvie, Cyc, Sorm and Collossus where we beat the final boss[and any boss really] in less then 10 seconds by button mashing our strongest powers in combos... cheap? yes, but funny like hell though) -Breath of Fire series, most all of it. real nice series, high fantasy D&D esque in my opinion. the 2nd one is fresh in memory, and my fave. B)read a good book or movie. unfortunately, i haven't read a good book in a long time, but any of the classics can do quite nicely (not just fantasy classics, the stuff your english teacher made you read in high school and university. olde englishe like shakespear is also good reading for ideas and simply because it's a great read). All good ideas - But as I tried to make clear. My problem is not with inspiration. I have gobs and gobs of ideas. I could write a few novels with the world I've created, given time to develop a novel-worthy, cogent plot line, and a more limited cast of characters. My funk has to do with the lack of willpower to transfer my ideas into the mechanic of the game. In all reality, I could probably DM several sessions without any further preparation, totally winging every encounter and making up details as I go. I don't lack for the experience necessary to Ad-Lib a bit. The problem is, ad-libbing makes combat slow, and doesn't usually allow for complex exploration. Anytime I sit down to actually "carve out" a dungeon though, I get bored after making one or two rooms...not with the idea, but with the tedium of making notes and running all the pregame calculations.
bholdr_mage 01-24-06, 04:01 PM	The problem isn't DnD, man. It's you. Just joking :) Really though, burnouts happen in every walk of life. Just like my job in the produce section at walmart; it blows donkey balls. And it's not becaue I have a bad job, I really like the guys I work with, my boss is cool, I make good pay for it being walmart, but I've been doing it for 5 years. Now, I just graduated college, so I'm having an "I have a degree and I work at walmart moment." It's frustrating. I know that better things will come along for me. But that example is just like gaming. I know I need a change. Will moving to a different department help me? A different store? Probably. But I know for me to be overly excited about my job, I need to find something in my field-graphic design. Just like a different campaign setting? A different gaming group? A different game? What will take me to the point of Yay, I get to go play games today! There has to be a reason why you have no energy. What is it about the game that you are burned out of? The setting, The people, your character and many other things could make you feel that way. Maybe like many others have said--you could just need a vacation from your gaming. Heck, even artwork, which I love to do gets tedius and old after a while. You have to try new things and step back sometimes.
Minauros 01-24-06, 04:20 PM	25+ years in gaming here, and I have had the same experiences you describe. I did spend a long period away from D&D, and actually only sort of recently came back to it. (Maybe 2 years or so.) During that time I played a lot of other games and it drove home one of the defining aspects of D&D that isn't really replicated in any large-scale way in any other big-selling game. The alignment system. To me, this is the actual source of D&D's mystique. And it dovetails into your other points about the goals and methods of a typical party of adventurers. I have begun approaching my games as morality plays, and have found my interest in them completely renewed. My most recent character is a LE priest who feels genuine love and affection for his family and his party-mates. He just happens to be an evil bastard towards everyone else. In truth I find this character plays much more realistically than the LGs who generally employ all the same tactics in an identical fashion. Coincidentally this topic is covered in a more humorous way in the most recent Heroes of Lesser Earth. (http://heroesoflesserearth.com/comicarchive-frameset.html) Funny how these things seem to run in circles.
Sulaco 01-24-06, 05:18 PM	Hello everyone, I've been gaming for well over 10 years now. I'm a pretty hard-core D&D gamer by most opinions, and I play regularly with two friends of mine on the weekend. For a while now, well over 2 months, that same since of excitement while gaming is gone. I don't feel as exhilarated as I did when I was younger. ... Has anyone else felt like this? Did you discover what was wrong or missing and did you fix it? Yep. you're burnt out, man, it's no big deal. It happens to pretty much all of us at some point. I myself was off D&D for 2 or 3 years in the early 90's, but like most of us I came back. My adivce is to take a break from D&D. Indeed take a break form the whole fantasy genre. Play d20 modern or Cyberpunk or something. Cleanse your palette and then give D&D another go in 6 months or a year. You just might find, as I did, that the magic is back. Cheers! :D
GenghisUber 01-24-06, 05:35 PM	Burnout like this happens. I can't count the number of times I've burned out in 21 years of gaming. It's cool, and maybe you just need a different style of game for a year or so. My current group plays a lot of hack-n-slash games, and we switched DMs for a campaign and it was more story driven and I loved it and it kept me going. We're back to hack-n-slash, but just having that change really helped and now I can jump into the kind of campaign that we're used to and it feels fresh.
YRM 01-24-06, 07:07 PM	Maybe it has something to do with that quote you're using. Are you overthinking everything and therefore missing out on just the joy of adventuring? You, and your players, should feel like you just went west for a Gold Rush, or found a new civilization in a new world. There should be some simple rush and excitement to accompany detailed stories and NPCs. If Indiana Jones in the Temple of Doom and his allies had to stop and ask, "Well, we snuck into this secret passage and bypassed the security, we should respect this foreign culture that has discovered us trespassing... if it's proper for their culture to tear my heart out with their bare hands for a ceremony as a result, I should respect that... after all, why did I bother snooping about and thieving artifacts for in the first place?" The whole trilogy would have been: A). Over. B). A lot less fun. Anyway, why not focus all that energy into other aspects of the campaign that everyone will enjoy instead of over-focusing on humanizing orcs, gnolls or bugbears? I actually used a small group of LN, Kobolds that were following an unusually brave and relatively honorable sorcerer leader... but if the PCs had decided to fight those Kobolds instead of negotiating with them, and managed to win a tough fight, I wouldn't be losing sleep over it. Worrying about things like that can make the game less fun. Maybe that's not the issue... but it could be.
Grier 01-25-06, 02:20 PM	Well, there have been enough tips about burn out, but I'd like to add my 2 cents. Sounds like what you find boring is the dungeon crafting, yes? You have all these great ideas, but to put them in a dungeon, make all the rooms, statting out all the monsters, calculating XP and treasure... it's boring you? Well... I don't have any tips for that. Maybe you can find a program or two on the internet that can help you with XP and treasure calculations, monster statting, dungeon creation, etc. so you can get the boring stuff out of the way and get to the creative roleplaying.
Neverwrong 01-25-06, 02:27 PM	Had it once. Still do i suppose. But it's all right, just follow the light, and don't be afraid of the dark. Ahem. Happiness comes from inside, so maybe you should play it from the inside? See character concepts go as you thought in a game? Start drinking or using prozac? Je ne sais pas. C'est problem incroyable.
pmurray@bigpond.com 01-25-06, 07:46 PM	For a while now, well over 2 months, that same since of excitement while gaming is gone. I don't feel as exhilarated as I did when I was younger. Not just as a player, but as a DM. I get the same thing with regard to programming. The latest APIs or language features just don't thrill me anymore. And married people seem to get the same thing with regards to their spouses.
j_gunder 01-25-06, 08:26 PM	This sounds like a support group. "Hello, my name is Jason..." Like many DMs out there, I was the only one out of a large group with any skill at sitting behind the screen. Everyone took their turn, decided I was the best, and ever since that day I have been the DM. It's like the kid in the playground with the good arm always being "all-time quarterback" during pick-up football games. After a while, it gets old. From your symptoms (heh), it sounds to me like you need to take a break from number-crunching, not from dungeons and dragons. I ran a 4-year campaign where we were able to game twice a week, sometimes more, and after a while I fell into the same slump. My solution? No more stat blocks. No more percentile dice for treasure. No more graph paper. We let the game go free-form for a while. This let the characters fully explore their characters through role-playing, and gave me a break from mechanics. We still used the sheets for skill checks and such, but the characters decided to camp out in a city and avoid combat for a month or two. In that time, they developed many excellent NPC ideas that I had and they learned a lot about who their characters were, as opposed to what their characters could do. At the end, I started to crave stat blocks again, my players got hungry for a dungeon crawl and a little hack and slash, and we returned to a more "by the book" campaign, only this time with new NPCs and a greater understanding of their characters and the setting. I statted out the new NPCs, rolled up some encounters, and was back on my feet. Hope that helps.
jagraham 01-25-06, 08:58 PM	After my last two long running campaigns, I changed games to play something else for a few months. One time was Shadowrun, another Harnmaster, both with very different feels and rule systems. I also played some LOTR miniatures. But I always come back.