A Interesting attack choice [Archive] - Wizards Community

A Interesting attack choice [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Darkness is good
06-21-05, 08:02 PM Me and my players where having a nice quite session today, in which, near the end the players teleported directly into the bed chambers of the main villian (a evil martial arts master)

They jumped the gun, despite all warnings, they attacked when they were not ready and were all (sans one) knocked out.The last concious player was then knocked down, I said

"Iron Eagle stands over you, a pitying look on his face. He looks directly into your eyes and asks "What will you do now?"

The Player then Replyed "I Kick him in the Nuts"

:eek:

This Sparked a huge debate over what happened next.

So, I ended the session that note, and said we'd continue the next time.

I know it sounds childish (and lets face it, it is)
But I really don't have the slightest idea how to handle this.

I can't even begin to comprehend how to stat Nut-kicking

and I do want a definit answer, because I know my players are going to start doing this alot (ninjas and monks don't tend to were cups..to my knowledge)
and I can't verywell punish them for fighting dirty (most of them are evil,3/5 are anyway)

Help?
Galaktia
06-21-05, 08:05 PM Monks and ninjas are not only trained to strike painful parts of the human body but also trained to defend them, the monk can easily defened a kick to the nuts,

Rule it as a called shot, with all apropriate negatives for being flat footed or prone or whatever.
Darkness is good
06-21-05, 08:09 PM Groovy
Darkness is good
06-21-05, 08:10 PM Thank you.

I shiver at the thought of my players wanting to make, The +5 shoe of nut-kicking.
Alynn
06-21-05, 08:11 PM Thank you.

I shiver at the thought of my players wanting to make, The +5 shoe of nut-kicking.

Best...... Magic Item...... EVER!
Temrek
06-21-05, 08:40 PM Maybe an unarmed attack that have special effects if it scores a critical hit (if the player has sneak attack you might want to allow the player to sacrefice all sneak attack damage for the effects).
Hal Horn
06-21-05, 08:46 PM I'd rule it as doing large amounts of subdual.. say, taking him down to 1. Effectively leaving him on the floor.

Maybe a con check to see if he gets back up every round? Say, DC40, 30, 20, gets up?

~Hal|Just my two :twocents:
Liwmial
06-22-05, 01:58 AM I'd go with an unarmed, called shot ( prone modifier negated due to foot to nut proximity) with resulting 1d4 rounds of debilitation if a DC 20 Fort Check is failed.

It may not save your players life, but it will buy them some time to get creative.
Maerdash
06-22-05, 02:06 AM I'd rule called shot at a -4 and say that the monk is stunned for 1d4 rounds
Derren S.
06-22-05, 02:47 AM I rule that it is a normal attack with normal damage when it hits (he can protect his "nuts" but you manage to hit something else)
Don't start using called shots if you don't want to deal with them all the time.
Nut kicking isn't very far away from headshots.

Also, realize that all the things brought up so far are much more effective than the monks stunning fist.

And as you mention dirty fighting, the feat "Dirty fighting" gives you +1w4 damage. There is your effect. And don't forget that they (probably) don't have the feat, so there should be an attack penalty for this.
wildduck
06-22-05, 03:07 AM The short version of my response:

DM: Okay make an attack roll
Player: <rolls high enough to make a normal hit>
DM: Roll damage
Player: <rolls his normal unarmed damage which is not enough to put baddie at 0 or lower>
DM: With a surprise kick you burry your foot where his nuts were just a second ago, however Iron Eagle moves like lighting and your would-be fatal blow mealy glances off his leg instead....

or if you wanna be real gung ho about it

DM: You surprise move works and you land a groin shot, however, Iron Eagle wasn't called "Iron" for nothing. Instead of crumpling like you would expect him to do the martial arts master merely smiles at your feeble blow.
Maerdash
06-22-05, 03:15 AM I rule that it is a normal attack with normal damage when it hits (he can protect his "nuts" but you manage to hit something else)
Don't start using called shots if you don't want to deal with them all the time.
Nut kicking isn't very far away from headshots.

Also, realize that all the things brought up so far are much more effective than the monks stunning fist.

And as you mention dirty fighting, the feat "Dirty fighting" gives you +1w4 damage. There is your effect. And don't forget that they (probably) don't have the feat, so there should be an attack penalty for this.
Ok when put this way I guess I'm going to have to agree with Derren and change my opinion here.
Didge
06-22-05, 03:21 AM As it stands, 3.5 doesn't have a called shot rule. This is for a very good reason, i.e., truestrike.

As it stands, here is a breakdown of the rules:

First, the Monk might be "standing over him" ie in the adjacent square, because if he cannot legally enter a square an opponent controls, unless he's trying some fun combat manuevers, but that doesn't sound like the case here. So trying to kick him in the "Jimmy" might not be as effective as the PC thought. Explain exactly where the Monk is and ask the Player to rethink what he's about to do now that he has that information available.

If you're like me, the Monk would have a readied action to "finish off" the punk if he tried to fight back. Thus ensuring the monk would most likely knock the player into La-La land.

But even if the Monk doesn't ready an action, he get's to take an Attack of Opportunity (unless the PC has the correct Feat) because he is attacking unarmed. In which case, the Monk will probably knock him into La-La land.

However, should the Monk not have readied an action, or miss on his AoO, then I'd rule the Monk was flat-footed, however that's it. Don't forget to add in the fact that the PC is prone so add in the appropriate penalties.
Palin the Wizard
06-22-05, 04:33 AM There are no called shots in D&D. You can announce that you aim for his crotch, yes, but you won't hit (unless your attack deals enough damage for the DM to let it pass).

You are always presumed to be striking at the most optimal spot (a warrior tries to attack the head of his opponent with a sword, for instance) unless you specifically say you're not going to. The thing is, you're not actually hitting. If you did, most fights would be over in the first round. The opponent dodges, parries, and does as much as he can *not* to be hit in that vital area.

That's why called shots are not allowed in D&D.
Cantankerous
06-22-05, 09:45 AM Precisely. D&D does not lend itself well to called shots. The entire hit point idea is useless when called shots are allowed without stating each area of the body individually AND then making the called shot difficult enough to matter.

If the character has a BAB of 2 and a total ATT: +3, then a -4 modifier for a called shot might be workable, but if he has a BAB 17 and a ATT: +34 the -4 modifier is nothing, which does not take into account how much better a high level defender would be at defending themselves from such silliness. THAT is the crux of the D&D hit point system. If you screw with it, without MASSIVE safeguards and balancing in place, you will definately screw it up. Don't destroy your game on the basis of making the player happy once.

Also, if you do go with the called shot idiocy, make sure ALL your NPC's do it as well. Otherwise you've just nerfed everybodybut the PC's into total ineffectiveness.

Isshia
KoboldSlayer
06-22-05, 10:16 AM I agree that called shots are a good way to really mess up the system that's in place in D&D for combat.

I encourage my players to describe what they are doing in a combat vividly, but as far as actually game effects, the description is all just for show. I add the dramatics of what exactly was hit if it was a significant blow, like a crit or the last blow on the creature.

PC: I swing my sword in a double-handed chop over my head.
DM: You bring the sword down on the kobold's head, leaving a wicked gash.
(Or with a crit) DM: You slice the kobold's head down the middle like a melon.

But none of that has to do with the shot being "called" or anything.
celtredleg
06-22-05, 10:38 AM As has been stated, called shots are a bad idea. Every monk, and every archer will call "eyes" just about every time.

However, if you want to give your party a break, then rule that this is a one time total surprise situation, where the BBEG thinks the PCs are completely helpless when they are not. Give them enough time to teleport back out while he staggers around puking and whimpering, but still looking dangerous.

If they press the attack, then waste them.
The_Prophet
06-22-05, 10:40 AM Player: Ok, I make a called shot at the ogre's eye.
DM (me): Um, you make a...what?
Player: You know, a called shot!
DM (me, laughing): Yeah, right buddy. *chuckles* Just make an attack roll, and I'll decide where it hits, m'kay?

I love being a DM :schemes:
celtredleg
06-22-05, 10:51 AM When you come down to it, no part of your body reacts well to being smashed by large chunks of metal. Hands fall off, intestines spill out, heads split open. D&D hit points are an abstraction that lets higher levels last longer.

there are game systems that have all body parts stated, and all hits land somewhere. And every now and then, somebody powerful goes down with a single hit by a weak opponent. I lost a Runelord years ago to a peasant with little skill, and a pitchfork. Bad day for me, but thats the price of a system like that.

If thats the sort of thing your players want, losing a PC to a kobold once in a while, then cool. But if you explain that to them that way, they may reconsider.
Phrennzy
06-22-05, 11:02 AM The short version of my response:

DM: Okay make an attack roll
Player: <rolls high enough to make a normal hit>
DM: Roll damage
Player: <rolls his normal unarmed damage which is not enough to put baddie at 0 or lower>
DM: With a surprise kick you burry your foot where his nuts were just a second ago, however Iron Eagle moves like lighting and your would-be fatal blow mealy glances off his leg instead....

or if you wanna be real gung ho about it

DM: You surprise move works and you land a groin shot, however, Iron Eagle wasn't called "Iron" for nothing. Instead of crumpling like you would expect him to do the martial arts master merely smiles at your feeble blow.

We have a winner!

My session:

Player: I kick him in the nuts.
DM: You know there are no called shots. You still want to kick the kung-fu master?
Player: (Sheepishly) No.
DM: What? I couldn't hear you?
Player: (Sheepishly) I said, 'No.'
DM: 'No' What?
Player: No I don't want to kick the kung-fu master.
DM: That's right you don't. Now roll to see if you pee all over yourself in fear.
kaldrin
06-22-05, 11:19 AM I don't know if any of you have ever been in a fight and been kicked in the jewels, but it doesn't hurt as much as when your adrenaline isn't pumping. Sure, it might stun him for a round, but that's it. I'd say make a Fort check at DC 12 or so to avoid the stunning.

As well, a monk who allows himself to be kicked thusly should hang his head and shame.
Phrennzy
06-22-05, 11:47 AM I don't know if any of you have ever been in a fight and been kicked in the jewels, but it doesn't hurt as much as when your adrenaline isn't pumping. Sure, it might stun him for a round, but that's it. I'd say make a Fort check at DC 12 or so to avoid the stunning.

As well, a monk who allows himself to be kicked thusly should hang his head and shame.

I thought about that too, but then I've never been kicked by a guy wearing metal boots...
Callista
06-22-05, 12:33 PM A fellow player once did this with a use of the Stunning Blow feat; this seems to be the appropriate feat for the use of such a tactic.
kaldrin
06-22-05, 12:37 PM I thought about that too, but then I've never been kicked by a guy wearing metal boots...

Cowboy boots are worse.

Metal boots would slow the hit down somewhat, making the attack even less powerful... adding to the fact that the guy trying to attack is prone.
Darkness is good
06-22-05, 01:27 PM Having been kicked in the nuts on 3 seperate occasions (same girl, I dumped her a day before)
I can say it hurts, enough to stun, if not render helpless for at least 3 rounds.
(the day after the break up, she kicked me, same day the next year, kicked me, same day next year, punched me, I guess I'm over due for this year :eek: )
Thoronmir
06-22-05, 01:49 PM As for "real world" examples of groin attacks, see my sig ... D&D isn't the real world and once you start down the path of seeking ad hoc "realism" in a game, you're opening a very dangerous Pandora's box.

I concur with Derren S. ... treat it as a normal attack. Of course, you should include all applicable modifiers, AoOs, etc., per the RAW.

However, if you're dead set on house-ruling a solution, ask your players this question ... "How do you want me to adjudicate the rules the next time an NPC wants to kick you in your nether regions?" Remind them that your NPCs can exploit the same tactics the PCs use. It doesn't even require advanced tactics or training ... a foot to the groin is a very elementary attack.
Darkness is good
06-22-05, 01:54 PM I see your point.
Stuned for 4 rounds on a failed fort check, dc20,
How about that?
Derren S.
06-22-05, 01:56 PM Still way better than stunning fist.

How about this. A normal unarmed attack and when it deals enough subdual damage to knock him unconcussionous he passes out.
Elzar
06-22-05, 02:00 PM While your players might relish the humor value of the attack, it opens a door that can't be closed later. Like previous posters, I'd stick with the rules, particularly because the player's opponent is a monk (and trained to expect such attacks).
Darkness is good
06-22-05, 02:11 PM Okay, but before I let this topic die, i have one last question:

How the hell do I get my Retarded pc's Out of this mess?

They need a helping hand from deus ex machina, but I'm the very imaginitive.
they don't have many friends in the game (most of them being evil)

Who will help the doomed nut-kicker?
kaldrin
06-22-05, 02:17 PM Okay, but before I let this topic die, i have one last question:

How the hell do I get my Retarded pc's Out of this mess?

They need a helping hand from deus ex machina, but I'm the very imaginitive.
they don't have many friends in the game (most of them being evil)

Who will help the doomed nut-kicker?

I'd say put them in the dungeon. If they can't escape, the campaign's over. But then I'm not a big fan of evil PCs either.
Derren S.
06-22-05, 02:22 PM Who will help the doomed nut-kicker?

No one? Stupid actions gets PCs killed and this certainly was a stupid action.
Darkness is good
06-22-05, 02:25 PM Or i could just and the npc "deus ex machina man"

.....dungeon it is.
Cantankerous
06-23-05, 09:11 AM My advice: If YOU get them out of this, they will never learn. Let them face the consequences of their actions. Do NOT get them out of it. If they've made so many enemies with the way they act, then WHY would you want to get them out of it?

Isshia
Eliza_Stormwhisper
06-23-05, 09:36 AM I'm glad I don't have any nuts, unless the cashews I like to have as snacks count. Ouch. On the other hand, we (women) have our "vital areas" too. Try hitting a woman in the chest. Ouch!
Alynn
06-23-05, 09:47 AM Let him just do a normal attack, count the NPC as flatfooted (after all he is gloating over the PC). If the PC gets sneak attacks, let it do sneak attack damage, if it was enough to drop the NPC below 0 then he straight knocked him out, if it barely did anything to the NPC, use the glancing blow off the leg or something. I'd say if the subdual damage is 1/2. Either way if it is a critical strike, then I'd stun him for 1d4 rounds...

So basically, it's a last ditch effort, it may work, it may not, if he rolls a 20 and is able to stun the guy, well thats the stuff adventures and heroic actions are made of, if not, he dies (or maybe is knocked out too remember you don't have to kill them, capture and place in teh dungeon is always an alternitive). Or you can just let them all die, I know most people want their players to have fun, but sometimes ship happens... They had an unlucky break, and thats all she wrote for them...
Missing Minds
06-23-05, 10:23 AM Let the shot happen as per normal rules that have been talked about already. Given that your players so jumped the gun, and if your Master found them at least some what amusing (they did get into his bed chamber if I remember correctly) toss the still awake one into a gualnet of his students. Let them beat the crap out of him. (subdual) then steal all their gear.

To taunt them further, but also make it to where their gear can be easily (somewhat) retrieved. First idea I had was to have the gear show up at a pawn shop so they can work to get it back. (one does get xp from doing the "odd" jobs afterall) Also, strip them naked and let them wake up in the ally in shall we say, interesting possitions.

Essentually, "you amused me so I'll let you live this time, but if you ever try it again, I will not let you off so easily."
MrkGrismer
06-23-05, 11:46 AM Of course, the target monk might have brass balls. Ouch!

:D

Throw them in the dungeon, torture them daily. Experiment on them, and then sell them into slavery.
icote
06-23-05, 02:50 PM I'd simply have it be a called shot, and if it hits and does any damage it stuns the monk for a round. Not too game breaking in the long run, and it fits in with theme of the Varient Damage to Specific Areas rules in the DMG.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Darkness is good 06-21-05, 08:02 PM	Me and my players where having a nice quite session today, in which, near the end the players teleported directly into the bed chambers of the main villian (a evil martial arts master) They jumped the gun, despite all warnings, they attacked when they were not ready and were all (sans one) knocked out.The last concious player was then knocked down, I said "Iron Eagle stands over you, a pitying look on his face. He looks directly into your eyes and asks "What will you do now?" The Player then Replyed "I Kick him in the Nuts" :eek: This Sparked a huge debate over what happened next. So, I ended the session that note, and said we'd continue the next time. I know it sounds childish (and lets face it, it is) But I really don't have the slightest idea how to handle this. I can't even begin to comprehend how to stat Nut-kicking and I do want a definit answer, because I know my players are going to start doing this alot (ninjas and monks don't tend to were cups..to my knowledge) and I can't verywell punish them for fighting dirty (most of them are evil,3/5 are anyway) Help?
Galaktia 06-21-05, 08:05 PM	Monks and ninjas are not only trained to strike painful parts of the human body but also trained to defend them, the monk can easily defened a kick to the nuts, Rule it as a called shot, with all apropriate negatives for being flat footed or prone or whatever.
Darkness is good 06-21-05, 08:09 PM	Groovy
Darkness is good 06-21-05, 08:10 PM	Thank you. I shiver at the thought of my players wanting to make, The +5 shoe of nut-kicking.
Alynn 06-21-05, 08:11 PM	Thank you. I shiver at the thought of my players wanting to make, The +5 shoe of nut-kicking. Best...... Magic Item...... EVER!
Temrek 06-21-05, 08:40 PM	Maybe an unarmed attack that have special effects if it scores a critical hit (if the player has sneak attack you might want to allow the player to sacrefice all sneak attack damage for the effects).
Hal Horn 06-21-05, 08:46 PM	I'd rule it as doing large amounts of subdual.. say, taking him down to 1. Effectively leaving him on the floor. Maybe a con check to see if he gets back up every round? Say, DC40, 30, 20, gets up? ~Hal\|Just my two :twocents:
Liwmial 06-22-05, 01:58 AM	I'd go with an unarmed, called shot ( prone modifier negated due to foot to nut proximity) with resulting 1d4 rounds of debilitation if a DC 20 Fort Check is failed. It may not save your players life, but it will buy them some time to get creative.
Maerdash 06-22-05, 02:06 AM	I'd rule called shot at a -4 and say that the monk is stunned for 1d4 rounds
Derren S. 06-22-05, 02:47 AM	I rule that it is a normal attack with normal damage when it hits (he can protect his "nuts" but you manage to hit something else) Don't start using called shots if you don't want to deal with them all the time. Nut kicking isn't very far away from headshots. Also, realize that all the things brought up so far are much more effective than the monks stunning fist. And as you mention dirty fighting, the feat "Dirty fighting" gives you +1w4 damage. There is your effect. And don't forget that they (probably) don't have the feat, so there should be an attack penalty for this.
wildduck 06-22-05, 03:07 AM	The short version of my response: DM: Okay make an attack roll Player: <rolls high enough to make a normal hit> DM: Roll damage Player: <rolls his normal unarmed damage which is not enough to put baddie at 0 or lower> DM: With a surprise kick you burry your foot where his nuts were just a second ago, however Iron Eagle moves like lighting and your would-be fatal blow mealy glances off his leg instead.... or if you wanna be real gung ho about it DM: You surprise move works and you land a groin shot, however, Iron Eagle wasn't called "Iron" for nothing. Instead of crumpling like you would expect him to do the martial arts master merely smiles at your feeble blow.
Maerdash 06-22-05, 03:15 AM	I rule that it is a normal attack with normal damage when it hits (he can protect his "nuts" but you manage to hit something else) Don't start using called shots if you don't want to deal with them all the time. Nut kicking isn't very far away from headshots. Also, realize that all the things brought up so far are much more effective than the monks stunning fist. And as you mention dirty fighting, the feat "Dirty fighting" gives you +1w4 damage. There is your effect. And don't forget that they (probably) don't have the feat, so there should be an attack penalty for this. Ok when put this way I guess I'm going to have to agree with Derren and change my opinion here.
Didge 06-22-05, 03:21 AM	As it stands, 3.5 doesn't have a called shot rule. This is for a very good reason, i.e., truestrike. As it stands, here is a breakdown of the rules: First, the Monk might be "standing over him" ie in the adjacent square, because if he cannot legally enter a square an opponent controls, unless he's trying some fun combat manuevers, but that doesn't sound like the case here. So trying to kick him in the "Jimmy" might not be as effective as the PC thought. Explain exactly where the Monk is and ask the Player to rethink what he's about to do now that he has that information available. If you're like me, the Monk would have a readied action to "finish off" the punk if he tried to fight back. Thus ensuring the monk would most likely knock the player into La-La land. But even if the Monk doesn't ready an action, he get's to take an Attack of Opportunity (unless the PC has the correct Feat) because he is attacking unarmed. In which case, the Monk will probably knock him into La-La land. However, should the Monk not have readied an action, or miss on his AoO, then I'd rule the Monk was flat-footed, however that's it. Don't forget to add in the fact that the PC is prone so add in the appropriate penalties.
Palin the Wizard 06-22-05, 04:33 AM	There are no called shots in D&D. You can announce that you aim for his crotch, yes, but you won't hit (unless your attack deals enough damage for the DM to let it pass). You are always presumed to be striking at the most optimal spot (a warrior tries to attack the head of his opponent with a sword, for instance) unless you specifically say you're not going to. The thing is, you're not actually hitting. If you did, most fights would be over in the first round. The opponent dodges, parries, and does as much as he can not to be hit in that vital area. That's why called shots are not allowed in D&D.
Cantankerous 06-22-05, 09:45 AM	Precisely. D&D does not lend itself well to called shots. The entire hit point idea is useless when called shots are allowed without stating each area of the body individually AND then making the called shot difficult enough to matter. If the character has a BAB of 2 and a total ATT: +3, then a -4 modifier for a called shot might be workable, but if he has a BAB 17 and a ATT: +34 the -4 modifier is nothing, which does not take into account how much better a high level defender would be at defending themselves from such silliness. THAT is the crux of the D&D hit point system. If you screw with it, without MASSIVE safeguards and balancing in place, you will definately screw it up. Don't destroy your game on the basis of making the player happy once. Also, if you do go with the called shot idiocy, make sure ALL your NPC's do it as well. Otherwise you've just nerfed everybodybut the PC's into total ineffectiveness. Isshia
KoboldSlayer 06-22-05, 10:16 AM	I agree that called shots are a good way to really mess up the system that's in place in D&D for combat. I encourage my players to describe what they are doing in a combat vividly, but as far as actually game effects, the description is all just for show. I add the dramatics of what exactly was hit if it was a significant blow, like a crit or the last blow on the creature. PC: I swing my sword in a double-handed chop over my head. DM: You bring the sword down on the kobold's head, leaving a wicked gash. (Or with a crit) DM: You slice the kobold's head down the middle like a melon. But none of that has to do with the shot being "called" or anything.
celtredleg 06-22-05, 10:38 AM	As has been stated, called shots are a bad idea. Every monk, and every archer will call "eyes" just about every time. However, if you want to give your party a break, then rule that this is a one time total surprise situation, where the BBEG thinks the PCs are completely helpless when they are not. Give them enough time to teleport back out while he staggers around puking and whimpering, but still looking dangerous. If they press the attack, then waste them.
The_Prophet 06-22-05, 10:40 AM	Player: Ok, I make a called shot at the ogre's eye. DM (me): Um, you make a...what? Player: You know, a called shot! DM (me, laughing): Yeah, right buddy. chuckles Just make an attack roll, and I'll decide where it hits, m'kay? I love being a DM :schemes:
celtredleg 06-22-05, 10:51 AM	When you come down to it, no part of your body reacts well to being smashed by large chunks of metal. Hands fall off, intestines spill out, heads split open. D&D hit points are an abstraction that lets higher levels last longer. there are game systems that have all body parts stated, and all hits land somewhere. And every now and then, somebody powerful goes down with a single hit by a weak opponent. I lost a Runelord years ago to a peasant with little skill, and a pitchfork. Bad day for me, but thats the price of a system like that. If thats the sort of thing your players want, losing a PC to a kobold once in a while, then cool. But if you explain that to them that way, they may reconsider.
Phrennzy 06-22-05, 11:02 AM	The short version of my response: DM: Okay make an attack roll Player: <rolls high enough to make a normal hit> DM: Roll damage Player: <rolls his normal unarmed damage which is not enough to put baddie at 0 or lower> DM: With a surprise kick you burry your foot where his nuts were just a second ago, however Iron Eagle moves like lighting and your would-be fatal blow mealy glances off his leg instead.... or if you wanna be real gung ho about it DM: You surprise move works and you land a groin shot, however, Iron Eagle wasn't called "Iron" for nothing. Instead of crumpling like you would expect him to do the martial arts master merely smiles at your feeble blow. We have a winner! My session: Player: I kick him in the nuts. DM: You know there are no called shots. You still want to kick the kung-fu master? Player: (Sheepishly) No. DM: What? I couldn't hear you? Player: (Sheepishly) I said, 'No.' DM: 'No' What? Player: No I don't want to kick the kung-fu master. DM: That's right you don't. Now roll to see if you pee all over yourself in fear.
kaldrin 06-22-05, 11:19 AM	I don't know if any of you have ever been in a fight and been kicked in the jewels, but it doesn't hurt as much as when your adrenaline isn't pumping. Sure, it might stun him for a round, but that's it. I'd say make a Fort check at DC 12 or so to avoid the stunning. As well, a monk who allows himself to be kicked thusly should hang his head and shame.
Phrennzy 06-22-05, 11:47 AM	I don't know if any of you have ever been in a fight and been kicked in the jewels, but it doesn't hurt as much as when your adrenaline isn't pumping. Sure, it might stun him for a round, but that's it. I'd say make a Fort check at DC 12 or so to avoid the stunning. As well, a monk who allows himself to be kicked thusly should hang his head and shame. I thought about that too, but then I've never been kicked by a guy wearing metal boots...
Callista 06-22-05, 12:33 PM	A fellow player once did this with a use of the Stunning Blow feat; this seems to be the appropriate feat for the use of such a tactic.
kaldrin 06-22-05, 12:37 PM	I thought about that too, but then I've never been kicked by a guy wearing metal boots... Cowboy boots are worse. Metal boots would slow the hit down somewhat, making the attack even less powerful... adding to the fact that the guy trying to attack is prone.
Darkness is good 06-22-05, 01:27 PM	Having been kicked in the nuts on 3 seperate occasions (same girl, I dumped her a day before) I can say it hurts, enough to stun, if not render helpless for at least 3 rounds. (the day after the break up, she kicked me, same day the next year, kicked me, same day next year, punched me, I guess I'm over due for this year :eek: )
Thoronmir 06-22-05, 01:49 PM	As for "real world" examples of groin attacks, see my sig ... D&D isn't the real world and once you start down the path of seeking ad hoc "realism" in a game, you're opening a very dangerous Pandora's box. I concur with Derren S. ... treat it as a normal attack. Of course, you should include all applicable modifiers, AoOs, etc., per the RAW. However, if you're dead set on house-ruling a solution, ask your players this question ... "How do you want me to adjudicate the rules the next time an NPC wants to kick you in your nether regions?" Remind them that your NPCs can exploit the same tactics the PCs use. It doesn't even require advanced tactics or training ... a foot to the groin is a very elementary attack.
Darkness is good 06-22-05, 01:54 PM	I see your point. Stuned for 4 rounds on a failed fort check, dc20, How about that?
Derren S. 06-22-05, 01:56 PM	Still way better than stunning fist. How about this. A normal unarmed attack and when it deals enough subdual damage to knock him unconcussionous he passes out.
Elzar 06-22-05, 02:00 PM	While your players might relish the humor value of the attack, it opens a door that can't be closed later. Like previous posters, I'd stick with the rules, particularly because the player's opponent is a monk (and trained to expect such attacks).
Darkness is good 06-22-05, 02:11 PM	Okay, but before I let this topic die, i have one last question: How the hell do I get my Retarded pc's Out of this mess? They need a helping hand from deus ex machina, but I'm the very imaginitive. they don't have many friends in the game (most of them being evil) Who will help the doomed nut-kicker?
kaldrin 06-22-05, 02:17 PM	Okay, but before I let this topic die, i have one last question: How the hell do I get my Retarded pc's Out of this mess? They need a helping hand from deus ex machina, but I'm the very imaginitive. they don't have many friends in the game (most of them being evil) Who will help the doomed nut-kicker? I'd say put them in the dungeon. If they can't escape, the campaign's over. But then I'm not a big fan of evil PCs either.
Derren S. 06-22-05, 02:22 PM	Who will help the doomed nut-kicker? No one? Stupid actions gets PCs killed and this certainly was a stupid action.
Darkness is good 06-22-05, 02:25 PM	Or i could just and the npc "deus ex machina man" .....dungeon it is.
Cantankerous 06-23-05, 09:11 AM	My advice: If YOU get them out of this, they will never learn. Let them face the consequences of their actions. Do NOT get them out of it. If they've made so many enemies with the way they act, then WHY would you want to get them out of it? Isshia
Eliza_Stormwhisper 06-23-05, 09:36 AM	I'm glad I don't have any nuts, unless the cashews I like to have as snacks count. Ouch. On the other hand, we (women) have our "vital areas" too. Try hitting a woman in the chest. Ouch!
Alynn 06-23-05, 09:47 AM	Let him just do a normal attack, count the NPC as flatfooted (after all he is gloating over the PC). If the PC gets sneak attacks, let it do sneak attack damage, if it was enough to drop the NPC below 0 then he straight knocked him out, if it barely did anything to the NPC, use the glancing blow off the leg or something. I'd say if the subdual damage is 1/2. Either way if it is a critical strike, then I'd stun him for 1d4 rounds... So basically, it's a last ditch effort, it may work, it may not, if he rolls a 20 and is able to stun the guy, well thats the stuff adventures and heroic actions are made of, if not, he dies (or maybe is knocked out too remember you don't have to kill them, capture and place in teh dungeon is always an alternitive). Or you can just let them all die, I know most people want their players to have fun, but sometimes ship happens... They had an unlucky break, and thats all she wrote for them...
Missing Minds 06-23-05, 10:23 AM	Let the shot happen as per normal rules that have been talked about already. Given that your players so jumped the gun, and if your Master found them at least some what amusing (they did get into his bed chamber if I remember correctly) toss the still awake one into a gualnet of his students. Let them beat the crap out of him. (subdual) then steal all their gear. To taunt them further, but also make it to where their gear can be easily (somewhat) retrieved. First idea I had was to have the gear show up at a pawn shop so they can work to get it back. (one does get xp from doing the "odd" jobs afterall) Also, strip them naked and let them wake up in the ally in shall we say, interesting possitions. Essentually, "you amused me so I'll let you live this time, but if you ever try it again, I will not let you off so easily."
MrkGrismer 06-23-05, 11:46 AM	Of course, the target monk might have brass balls. Ouch! :D Throw them in the dungeon, torture them daily. Experiment on them, and then sell them into slavery.
icote 06-23-05, 02:50 PM	I'd simply have it be a called shot, and if it hits and does any damage it stuns the monk for a round. Not too game breaking in the long run, and it fits in with theme of the Varient Damage to Specific Areas rules in the DMG.