Post/Author/DateTime	Post
dickleyjones 01-29-07, 11:05 PM	due to mordenkainen's Disjunction. He was an NPC sorcerer (18th). I know it says 'lost all spellcasting abilities', but i would like him to be able to begin study as a wizard. How long do you think it would take to gain his wizard levels ('behind the scenes')? how would an extremely old, very intelligent and incredibly charming lich go about this? this is definitely a case where the rules don't fully apply, or it would be nearly impossible (how to gain all the XP necessary?) to do. thoughts?
Artector 01-29-07, 11:14 PM	I assume he destroyed an artifact? In that case its most likely that when that happens its assumed that the campaign is over and the PC can retire. I'd let you re-start as a level 1 wizard and have to work your way back up. Really, its up to your DM.
dickleyjones 01-29-07, 11:24 PM	hehe - I am the DM! Yup, he destroyed an artifact (by accident). He's an (assumed evil) NPC that the characters are facing. He may have the opportunity to study in hiding while the characters are adventuring.
Thomar_of_Uointer 01-30-07, 12:53 AM	hehe - I am the DM! Yup, he destroyed an artifact (by accident). He's an (assumed evil) NPC that the characters are facing. He may have the opportunity to study in hiding while the characters are adventuring. Ah, that helps. Assuming you aren't saying the gods have dropped a permanent 2" antimagic field on each and every one of his extremities... Okay, he has contingencies, right? Evil connections? Uncollected blackmail? Drinking buddies? His first order of business is to find someone or something that can keep him safe. If he has access to old spell scrolls, he might try to gate a demon or devil in and call favors, sell his soul (or someone else's soul), or make some other unsavory deal to get his powers back quickly. If he's really stuck relearning, just give him 1 caster level per month, that should give the PCs plenty of time to go off and have other adventures or downtime before he's ready to... RETURN... (Sorry, couldn't resist that.) Look on the bright side, this gives you an opportunity to completely rework his spell list to surprise the PCs.
dickleyjones 01-30-07, 10:49 AM	Yes, there is definitely a bright side. This NPC had been a problem for the PCs (as most liches are) and suddenly he lost all of his powers. What a tragic character: a lich with no spellcasting. For now they have chosen not to destroy him, instead keeping him imprisoned on a deserted island. He is looking for his first opportunity to leave and begin the pursuit for more power. Perhaps if he makes the right connections, he could become an Ur-Priest. That seems fitting for a lich who had his powers taken by a god. It's faster too (in levels anyways)!
Orchomenos 01-30-07, 11:40 AM	Since a lich is (un)living using powerful Necromancy, this one is lucky to not have been completely destroyed by the Mordenkainen's Disjunction. Did he lost his phylactery? For now they have chosen not to destroy him, instead keeping him imprisoned on a deserted island. He is looking for his first opportunity to leave and begin the pursuit for more power. It should be cool if his newfound magical abilities would be related to that. He could become a cleric (Ur-Priest) to a nature or ocean deity. Or if there is a volcano on this island, he could get many fire-based spells...
dickleyjones 01-30-07, 12:18 PM	In the spell description, it states that he loses "all spellcasting abilities". I assume this means scrolls and staffs as well (since he can't cast any sorcerer spells anymore). His phylactery still exists. It is actually an artifact sword which created the lich in the first place. He was slain by the sword, turned into a lich and his soul is bound to the sword. The lich is actually trying to find a way to undo this curse and release his soul from bondage. At the same time, the PCs want to destroy the sword (since it is so evil) and are currently trying to find a way to do so. Keep those ideas coming! Everyone's advice is welcome.
Jenny With The Lantern 01-30-07, 01:15 PM	I agree with Thomar: he would likely feel very unprotected at the moment and try to find himself (new?) underlings. Probably scare most of them into servitude (who knows he lost his powers? Feign them in some way maybe?).. How deserted is the island? No living beings? Maybe find him some nice (dangerous) wildlife? Big birds (giant eagle cliché) to fly off the island?
Artector 01-30-07, 01:28 PM	Man. Know I'm thinking of KOTOR 2. With the void in the force? You see kinda what I'm getting at? Anyways, he could start pulling energy from other spellcasters and eventually regain his abilities that way. Have him start by attacking apprentices, and then move on to the greater spellcasters as he gains power. From there he could learn a special absorbition power and gain temporary boosts to his spellcasting ability. Or maybe he could regain his abilities from each mage. So, if he startead taking Wizard powers he would be able to use spells out of a spellbook spontaneously. Perhaps if he took a strong enough Warmage he'd gain Warmage Edge, and if he killed a Warlock he'd get a temporary Eldritch blast. This would also make it necessary to have him feed. I like this idea....
Animae_Draconum 01-30-07, 02:59 PM	Here's what I'm thinking.... He uses the time to undergo the retraining rules that are in PHB2, and while on this deserted island undergoes a transformation into a Dry Lich, either by means of the Walker in the Waste PrC or you just saying so. You can get Divine spells from the Southern Magician feat. I think that campaign world specific feat restrictions are dumb. You could enter the PrC @ lvl 6, or if you would prefer use something from BoVD. And lastly my personal Favorite the Anima Mage/Tainted Scholar combo, enter Anima Mage @ lvl 4 then continue into Tainted Scholar. I think they all provide a nice campaign ending BBEG that should provide a worthy challenge to any party. A_D
dickleyjones 01-30-07, 03:46 PM	it's a very small island - no living beings of consequence. the lich could try to get away by swimming (no fear of drowning), but how far would he get? At this point, i'd better state that the PCs are all 18th level (first high level campaign we've ever done as a group - since 1st edition!). The party consists of a sorcerer/archmage, an inquisitor, a druid and a ghaele eladrin turned into a character. The players believe that the are on a 'save the world' type of quest/campaign. More accurately, they are on a 'determine the outcome when the sh*t goes down'. the lich was recently released from over 5000 years of captivity (mistakenly). furthemore, in my campaign there are no undead except for those created by a certain artifact sword (this will probably change in the future). For this reason the PCs want the sword destroyed. This can only be done in Hell, where the sword was created. Problem is, the sword is so powerful that it takes over the mind of any who wield it, gets them to commit suicide and go on an undead-creating rampage. the deserted island is actually the sanctuary of the sorcerer PC. The PCs spend the night there often, with the lich nearby. They actually wish to enlist the lich into carrying the sword for them, since it seems as though he is immune to it's effects. this, combined with the fact that he seems harmless, is the only reason the PCs have let the lich survive. Recently the characters have come into possession of a powerful helm which grants wishes(4 total). The lich sees this as an opportunity and is trying to plan the right time to paralyse the PC who holds it (the archmage) and take off. not an easy task for a spell-devoid lich!
Animae_Draconum 01-30-07, 03:53 PM	What artifact caused him to lose his spellcasting abilities?
dickleyjones 01-30-07, 04:18 PM	he cast Mage's Disjunction at the PCs and mistakenly destroyed a scarab one of the PCs was holding. the scarab could be used to find a person or object through any barrier (even antimagic) even when discern location failed. The lich didn't realise that the PCs had the artifact in their possession. After casting M.D., he (I) rolled poorly and lost his spellcasting.
Black Mantha 01-30-07, 04:55 PM	it's a very small island - no living beings of consequence. the lich could try to get away by swimming (no fear of drowning), but how far would he get?As far as he wants. He doesn't need to rest, either, and can use the sun to keep from going in circles. As for retraining as a wizard, once he gets enough XP for his first level, he can scribe scrolls as much as he wants to lose XP (this might help him regain wealth), and a bit of deviation from the standard rules will allow him to lose his Sorcerer levels from expanding XP, and regaining Wizard levels when he levels back up. Do drop his XP halfway between levels when he loses a level, or it'll be too quick. It will be hard to gain XP at his level with such a nerfing, but a backfiring MKD is just that tough. Note: I just reread my post and realized I posted a method for a PC, not an NPC. Best just let the levels be replace over time.
RK)13 01-30-07, 05:11 PM	Man. Know I'm thinking of KOTOR 2. With the void in the force? You see kinda what I'm getting at? Anyways, he could start pulling energy from other spellcasters and eventually regain his abilities that way. Have him start by attacking apprentices, and then move on to the greater spellcasters as he gains power. From there he could learn a special absorbition power and gain temporary boosts to his spellcasting ability. ... This would also make it necessary to have him feed. I like this idea.... I like this idea too, it has a good feel to it. Since the party and the lich have the same goal in mind (destroying the sword) you could have the lich offer his knowledge and expertise to the party to help them accomplish their goal. On his way traveling, he discovers the method Artector describes in a musty tome, and starts doing this behind the backs of the party. Eventually, when they find the sword, he steals it and tries to destroy it himself, binding several devils to him. This could lead to an epic battle in hell over who, exactly gets to destroy the sword. Maybe the destroyer of the sword gets some power or somewhat, maybe related to the introduction of undead into your campaign world.
dickleyjones 01-30-07, 09:06 PM	you will have to tell me what the KOTOR II concept is. i only played the first game! i really like the idea of stealing spells from others. the spellthief class seems like a good idea here, with some tweaking: 1) no spells are actually gained 2) there is no limit to the amount of spells he can steal and store this could be extra potent with his archmage abilities (arcane fire, spell power) as for destroying the sword - the sword contains an ancient evil deity. right now, the PCs can see 3 options: 1) hide sword forever (pretty tough) 2) destroy the sword in Hell, releasing the deity there. This is bad, but not as bad as 3) risk the sword being destroyed on earth, releasing the deity there. This is beyond bad. as for the lich, he can't see any good options. if the sword is destroyed on earth, he is released, but with an evil god on a rampage. if the sword is destroyed in hell, he is released in hell, forever bound there. He is seeking for a way to release his soul from the sword before it is destroyed.
Archangel62 01-30-07, 09:16 PM	Well, if I could offer an idea, the Lich could use his connections to give the idea that he was wiped out. The group quits looking over their shoulders and quit trying to battle his plans. He uses this time to lick his wounds and rebuild himself...maybe make a dark pact and come back as an Arcane Theurge. His plans can be put into motion with minimal interference here. Also leads to a great dramatic scene, party runs into him in a dungeon complex, he unveils himself with "Rumors of my demise have been greatly...exaggerated!"
Artector 01-30-07, 09:16 PM	you will have to tell me what the KOTOR II concept is. i only played the first game! Basically the lack of the force made you able to absorb the ability of other creatures. You get more powerful the more you kill. What I wrote up doesn't quite fit with the storyline of KOTOR 2, but it lead me to what I wrote up. If you don't mind a bit of spoilers I can explain it a bit better. The main character of the game was a Jedi General during the Mandalorian Wars. On Malachor V he intiated a planet killing order that destroyed millions. The main character attached to others with the force. This meant that when those lives were snuffed out of existance the main character had to cut himself off from the force. You become a hole in the force, an echo, and if you go evil you actually absorb Jedi Master's "force power" (can't think of how to describe it) and get stronger from that. I hope that's adequate and none to confusing.
Fanatic-Templar 01-30-07, 09:42 PM	He could agree to wield the sword for the players, use that to get a couple undead servants and use those as a diversion while he makes his escape, with sword in hand. Then he could try regaining his powers.
dickleyjones 01-31-07, 09:29 AM	Perhaps the lich could try to get away by creating a diversion, or walking underwater but these are 18th level PCs he is facing. if he attempts to leave and fails, they will probably destroy him. i realise he can survive underwater but the PCs will find him (easily). he needs to wait until there is a very strong chance of escaping. one plan he has in mind: he recognizes a helmet the sorcerer is wearing as an item that can grant wishes. if only he could get his hands on it...
tharivol266 01-31-07, 12:06 PM	actually getting destroyed would be benificial to him because he would regenerate somewhere else and could take the time to regain his power. and depending on how you rule it he could respawn at the sword and just say "gank" and run really quickly.