A little annoyed [Archive] - Wizards Community

A little annoyed [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Drizztrocks
08-19-07, 12:24 PM Im very exited about the new edition, but i just bought so many 3rd edition books!!!!! Will any of these mstill be useful in the 3rd edition?:mad: :mad:
Vanraya
08-19-07, 01:06 PM ouch. Unfortunately from what I'm seeing, the only thing those 3.0 books are going to do for you are get you familiar with the D20 system that 4.0 is going to be using.

On another note, this might not be the best forum for this question.
Kolyana
08-19-07, 02:37 PM Agreed, this may not be the best forum.

For my part, I have a whole slew of 3.5 books (and plenty of 3.0 as well), but I'm actually kinda okay with it ... at the very least they are going to provide great inspiration and ideas for the future. The Book of Vile Darkness, for instance, doesn't become useless overnight, because all of the spells, monsters, classes and so on can still provide those vital creative juices.
Lormador
08-19-07, 03:05 PM You're only A LITTLE annoyed? Maybe you weren't around to see your massive collection of more than one hundred 2nd edition tomes go outdated and experience the pleasure of support vanishing for your favorite settings.

I remember that, but I almost forgave Wizards when the rules for 3rd edition really did turn out well. 3.5 is a beautiful system without major problems of anything like the scale we saw in 2nd edition.

You should be much more angry. This is a blatant corporate move, along with trying to bust into the miniatures market, along with adding a paid subscription portion of the site, designed to extract as many dollars from gamers everywhere with little to no concern for the health of the hobby as a whole. I don't see how advancing the Roll of Years a little bit helps the Forgotten Realms, but I certainly see how it makes all those new products suddenly appear necessary.

4th Edition proves that Wizards of the Coast is run by Lawful Evil Rogues. I know that there are many good people there who love the hobby as much as I do, and this probably hurts them even more than it does me. Unfortunately for that hobby, whoever is signing the checks over there cares more about the shareholders than the customers.

We have no need for a new edition. I hope you will join me in proving that, and boycotting Wizards of the Coast. Restrict your gaming material intake to Netbooks, old edition downloads, and dice not manufactured by Wizards of the Coast. Write an angry letter and take the opportunity to publicly complain. Think of it as a non-violent protest to restore the glory of our beloved game.

Wizards, I have bought 187 books for Dungeons and Dragons over the years, but not a single tome will I add to my collection unless you cease and desist this foolishness!
Sildatorak
08-19-07, 04:09 PM This is a blatant corporate moveAgreed. They have published splat books for all of the major races and classes, a campaign setting, and a handful of monster manuals. They are now stretching with the complete series (they only lack a complete ass-kicker to go with scoundrel, mage, and champion) and it is more lucrative to start over again. In 5 years or so, when all of the 4e classes and races have had their splat books, I wouldn't be surprised to see version 4.5 or even 5e.

Wizards, I have bought 187 books for Dungeons and Dragons over the years, but not a single tome will I add to my collection unless you cease and desist this foolishness!I think this is where you are making a slight mistake. The secondary market on 3.5 books is where you should be looking. They have plenty of published material for it, but they won't be churning out crap anymore. You can actually finish a collection of all the useful books from it without giving any money to Hasbro.
Lormador
08-19-07, 07:53 PM Ah ha! How could I have missed it? You're right! I can buy the books used, in which case I won't have to support the Shadow Thieves directly. Thanks!
Balseraph
08-19-07, 08:35 PM From where I'm sitting 4e looks like it is slated for release on about the same sort of schedule that 3e was after the 2e update. It will have been eight years since 3e came out and even though I think that is a somewhat shorter time than was between the last editions I look at it in another way.

I would imagine that there have been more players between 2000 and 2008 than there were between 1978 and 2000. Given that probably relatively few of the original gamers stopped playing and yet more start gaming every year, I think that's a safe bet.
We now also have a global D&D community supported by an enormous electronic network. Product review can happen almost instantly these days; so eight years of constant feedback from hundreds of thousands (millions?) of gamers is more than enough -in my mind- to justify moving forward to the next edition.

Clearly many people disagree but that's my take on the upcoming edition and why I'm not overly annoyed about having to buy all new books next year.

Heh, besides, I imagine that the core mechanics may remain similar enough that I will be able to convert much of the non-core material for use in my own future 4e games.
Dag
08-20-07, 01:06 AM Lormador, I think that we who fight the goode fight against the corporate butchering of the game have found our champion.
Rave on.

As a fellow Sucker, who has shelled out plenty of jack on countless tomes (now out-of-date tomes) I feel your righteous fury. I've no need to spend another dime, as I'm set with material and imagination aplenty to hold me over until the day that D&D comes back down to earth.

Was nice back in the day when the game may have been flawed but the manufacturer had regard and respect for the product.
nightside_samurai
08-20-07, 01:27 AM I can't believe Wizards would do something so selfish as to try and make money like every other corporation. It's too bad we'll have to stop playing 3.5 in May, because god knows we can't risk the ire of the RPG police who will storm to our doors, beat us with paddles, and make us walk barefoot on d4's before making us dance around a bonfire made of all non-4.0 books.

They should be ashamed to make wise business decisions, and for destroying a hobby that we have no control over. I know that I buy my weekly supply of books weather I need them or not. Not only that, but because they're updating I won't be able to run my homebrewed worlds either, because Wizards was the only place I could get original and inspiring ideas for my players to enjoy. Now I'll have to create something myself and face the jeering laughter of my peers when they see my game world that doesn't have the Wizards stamp of approval.

You won't be seeing me anymore since I am going to starve myself in protest to this horrible occurence in the course of this generation. It doesn't matter that people are dying every day in wars, or that little children are starving to death. I live in America god damnit, and I have the right to complain about every little thing that doesn't fit my constantly expanding list of whining self-indulgence.

And don't bother flaming me because I'm going to stubbornly hold onto my opinion no matter what evidence or common sense is presented that contradicts my firmly entrenched beliefs.

:P
Dag
08-20-07, 01:33 AM Huzzah!
Glad you're with us Samurai, we need inspired and passionate lads like you in the ranks.
If anyone flames you they'll have to deal with me too!
nightside_samurai
08-20-07, 01:36 AM Huzzah!
Glad you're with us Samurai, we need inspired and passionate lads like you in the ranks.
If anyone flames you they'll have to deal with me too!

I just like writing satire. The unveiling of 4.0 has given me plenty of material lol.

And for my official stance: I'm too broke to buy anything but I've only heard good things so I'll buy the Core stuff when I can and then *ahem* borrow the rest from a "friend" :D
Sleepwalker13666
08-20-07, 02:05 AM http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h57/Sleepwalker13666/May08.jpg
Shedeo
08-20-07, 03:19 AM http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h57/Sleepwalker13666/May08.jpg

Epic. Win.
CroBob
08-20-07, 03:20 AM I don't get it. People are whining about having to spend money on new books... because they've done exactly that in the past? People, all those books you've bought over these years have been, well, bought. You paid for them. If WotC released some new splatbooks, you'd buy those, right? Well, now you'll buy these. Did you really expect those books you bought to last forever, to never become outdated? I miss some things from second edition, sure, but 3E, in fact, was an overall improvement. Give 4E a chance, and if you don't like it you'll still have your 3E books.
Thanuir
08-20-07, 08:17 AM I'm all for people and companies publishing new games. Doesn't stop me from playing old ones and gives new options. Cool, says me.
Yami
08-20-07, 10:18 AM Look, the point is:

WotC is part of a company. They must make money. Enriching the gaming community is only valuable to them when it translates to metrics that translate into $$ for their bottom line. It's reality, it won't change. I'd rather have D&D in the hands of a company that understands this and survives, than in the hands of idealists that can't make enough money to stay afloat. ::shrug::

I don't see the big issue here. People still play second edition. I don't see 3.5 games disappearing anytime soon. We've got another year, almost, before any of these books even appear. Let alone all the core for full play. I will probably take a look at 4.0, see if I like or dislike it. If I like it, I expect it will be easy enough for me to 'port 3.5 material I have over. If I don't, I'll stick with 3.5 with my pals. and enjoy the cheap purchase price of all the used books I can now get in the meantime.

Relax, breathe...and enjoy gaming with your friends. We can all find things to worry about, but why borrow more trouble than we need?;)

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Drizztrocks 08-19-07, 12:24 PM	Im very exited about the new edition, but i just bought so many 3rd edition books!!!!! Will any of these mstill be useful in the 3rd edition?:mad: :mad:
Vanraya 08-19-07, 01:06 PM	ouch. Unfortunately from what I'm seeing, the only thing those 3.0 books are going to do for you are get you familiar with the D20 system that 4.0 is going to be using. On another note, this might not be the best forum for this question.
Kolyana 08-19-07, 02:37 PM	Agreed, this may not be the best forum. For my part, I have a whole slew of 3.5 books (and plenty of 3.0 as well), but I'm actually kinda okay with it ... at the very least they are going to provide great inspiration and ideas for the future. The Book of Vile Darkness, for instance, doesn't become useless overnight, because all of the spells, monsters, classes and so on can still provide those vital creative juices.
Lormador 08-19-07, 03:05 PM	You're only A LITTLE annoyed? Maybe you weren't around to see your massive collection of more than one hundred 2nd edition tomes go outdated and experience the pleasure of support vanishing for your favorite settings. I remember that, but I almost forgave Wizards when the rules for 3rd edition really did turn out well. 3.5 is a beautiful system without major problems of anything like the scale we saw in 2nd edition. You should be much more angry. This is a blatant corporate move, along with trying to bust into the miniatures market, along with adding a paid subscription portion of the site, designed to extract as many dollars from gamers everywhere with little to no concern for the health of the hobby as a whole. I don't see how advancing the Roll of Years a little bit helps the Forgotten Realms, but I certainly see how it makes all those new products suddenly appear necessary. 4th Edition proves that Wizards of the Coast is run by Lawful Evil Rogues. I know that there are many good people there who love the hobby as much as I do, and this probably hurts them even more than it does me. Unfortunately for that hobby, whoever is signing the checks over there cares more about the shareholders than the customers. We have no need for a new edition. I hope you will join me in proving that, and boycotting Wizards of the Coast. Restrict your gaming material intake to Netbooks, old edition downloads, and dice not manufactured by Wizards of the Coast. Write an angry letter and take the opportunity to publicly complain. Think of it as a non-violent protest to restore the glory of our beloved game. Wizards, I have bought 187 books for Dungeons and Dragons over the years, but not a single tome will I add to my collection unless you cease and desist this foolishness!
Sildatorak 08-19-07, 04:09 PM	This is a blatant corporate moveAgreed. They have published splat books for all of the major races and classes, a campaign setting, and a handful of monster manuals. They are now stretching with the complete series (they only lack a complete ass-kicker to go with scoundrel, mage, and champion) and it is more lucrative to start over again. In 5 years or so, when all of the 4e classes and races have had their splat books, I wouldn't be surprised to see version 4.5 or even 5e. Wizards, I have bought 187 books for Dungeons and Dragons over the years, but not a single tome will I add to my collection unless you cease and desist this foolishness!I think this is where you are making a slight mistake. The secondary market on 3.5 books is where you should be looking. They have plenty of published material for it, but they won't be churning out crap anymore. You can actually finish a collection of all the useful books from it without giving any money to Hasbro.
Lormador 08-19-07, 07:53 PM	Ah ha! How could I have missed it? You're right! I can buy the books used, in which case I won't have to support the Shadow Thieves directly. Thanks!
Balseraph 08-19-07, 08:35 PM	From where I'm sitting 4e looks like it is slated for release on about the same sort of schedule that 3e was after the 2e update. It will have been eight years since 3e came out and even though I think that is a somewhat shorter time than was between the last editions I look at it in another way. I would imagine that there have been more players between 2000 and 2008 than there were between 1978 and 2000. Given that probably relatively few of the original gamers stopped playing and yet more start gaming every year, I think that's a safe bet. We now also have a global D&D community supported by an enormous electronic network. Product review can happen almost instantly these days; so eight years of constant feedback from hundreds of thousands (millions?) of gamers is more than enough -in my mind- to justify moving forward to the next edition. Clearly many people disagree but that's my take on the upcoming edition and why I'm not overly annoyed about having to buy all new books next year. Heh, besides, I imagine that the core mechanics may remain similar enough that I will be able to convert much of the non-core material for use in my own future 4e games.
Dag 08-20-07, 01:06 AM	Lormador, I think that we who fight the goode fight against the corporate butchering of the game have found our champion. Rave on. As a fellow Sucker, who has shelled out plenty of jack on countless tomes (now out-of-date tomes) I feel your righteous fury. I've no need to spend another dime, as I'm set with material and imagination aplenty to hold me over until the day that D&D comes back down to earth. Was nice back in the day when the game may have been flawed but the manufacturer had regard and respect for the product.
nightside_samurai 08-20-07, 01:27 AM	I can't believe Wizards would do something so selfish as to try and make money like every other corporation. It's too bad we'll have to stop playing 3.5 in May, because god knows we can't risk the ire of the RPG police who will storm to our doors, beat us with paddles, and make us walk barefoot on d4's before making us dance around a bonfire made of all non-4.0 books. They should be ashamed to make wise business decisions, and for destroying a hobby that we have no control over. I know that I buy my weekly supply of books weather I need them or not. Not only that, but because they're updating I won't be able to run my homebrewed worlds either, because Wizards was the only place I could get original and inspiring ideas for my players to enjoy. Now I'll have to create something myself and face the jeering laughter of my peers when they see my game world that doesn't have the Wizards stamp of approval. You won't be seeing me anymore since I am going to starve myself in protest to this horrible occurence in the course of this generation. It doesn't matter that people are dying every day in wars, or that little children are starving to death. I live in America god damnit, and I have the right to complain about every little thing that doesn't fit my constantly expanding list of whining self-indulgence. And don't bother flaming me because I'm going to stubbornly hold onto my opinion no matter what evidence or common sense is presented that contradicts my firmly entrenched beliefs. :P
Dag 08-20-07, 01:33 AM	Huzzah! Glad you're with us Samurai, we need inspired and passionate lads like you in the ranks. If anyone flames you they'll have to deal with me too!
nightside_samurai 08-20-07, 01:36 AM	Huzzah! Glad you're with us Samurai, we need inspired and passionate lads like you in the ranks. If anyone flames you they'll have to deal with me too! I just like writing satire. The unveiling of 4.0 has given me plenty of material lol. And for my official stance: I'm too broke to buy anything but I've only heard good things so I'll buy the Core stuff when I can and then ahem borrow the rest from a "friend" :D
Sleepwalker13666 08-20-07, 02:05 AM	http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h57/Sleepwalker13666/May08.jpg
Shedeo 08-20-07, 03:19 AM	http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h57/Sleepwalker13666/May08.jpg Epic. Win.
CroBob 08-20-07, 03:20 AM	I don't get it. People are whining about having to spend money on new books... because they've done exactly that in the past? People, all those books you've bought over these years have been, well, bought. You paid for them. If WotC released some new splatbooks, you'd buy those, right? Well, now you'll buy these. Did you really expect those books you bought to last forever, to never become outdated? I miss some things from second edition, sure, but 3E, in fact, was an overall improvement. Give 4E a chance, and if you don't like it you'll still have your 3E books.
Thanuir 08-20-07, 08:17 AM	I'm all for people and companies publishing new games. Doesn't stop me from playing old ones and gives new options. Cool, says me.
Yami 08-20-07, 10:18 AM	Look, the point is: WotC is part of a company. They must make money. Enriching the gaming community is only valuable to them when it translates to metrics that translate into $$ for their bottom line. It's reality, it won't change. I'd rather have D&D in the hands of a company that understands this and survives, than in the hands of idealists that can't make enough money to stay afloat. ::shrug:: I don't see the big issue here. People still play second edition. I don't see 3.5 games disappearing anytime soon. We've got another year, almost, before any of these books even appear. Let alone all the core for full play. I will probably take a look at 4.0, see if I like or dislike it. If I like it, I expect it will be easy enough for me to 'port 3.5 material I have over. If I don't, I'll stick with 3.5 with my pals. and enjoy the cheap purchase price of all the used books I can now get in the meantime. Relax, breathe...and enjoy gaming with your friends. We can all find things to worry about, but why borrow more trouble than we need?;)