Post/Author/DateTime	Post
pierow37 06-23-06, 10:25 PM	Some people are luckier than others. plain and simple. I was thinking of how to incorporate this idea into DnD, and i thought that i could roll 1d4 for each character at the beggining of the game. this effects ALL luck based games and ALL other things that involve luck. I dont know if this would work, so dont get all prissy if u dissagree. But i try to give my characters as much REAL world personality as i can. So do all of my PC's. I think that this would improve all kinds of fun stuff in the game, and make it more realistic. My reason for posting this was so that people could comment about my idea, [not flaming], and to give other ideas that sorta go along with my idea. Or even other approaches to the idea of LUCK in DND
rijeagle 06-23-06, 10:32 PM	Luck has been discussed here, check it out: http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=626418
INeedNoSalt 06-24-06, 12:47 AM	Some people are luckier than others. plain and simple. I was thinking of how to incorporate this idea into DnD, and i thought that i could roll 1d4 for each character at the beggining of the game. this effects ALL luck based games and ALL other things that involve luck. So... every dice roll? Some of the White Wolf games used Luck as a Merit up to 5 points - for each point of luck you had, you could reroll 1 die per story (IIRC). I kinda like that concept.
Stafir Ortnev 06-24-06, 12:52 AM	I've actually seen the outlines for a homebrew mage that eventually gained luck related abilities. Basically at higher level's..once per day he could re-roll a single dieroll..his or someone elses. The eventuall ability to make a die roll a target number UNLESS the die roll turned up to be that exact number also came up. (If I remember..you couldn't name 1..and f the number you named turned up...the roll became 1). That was also a small amount of times per day ability (like..1 to 3 if I remember...and the 3 only at high higher levels heh). I think there were a few others as well...but I can't remember em for the life of me.
ThePrivateer 06-24-06, 01:31 AM	I use Charisma as a "luck stat," basically having players use it when something that is based on fate is required. My DCs are usually fairly arbitrary, but the 10-15-20 rule for easy/difficult/quite tough applies for the most part. Real examples: PC: Is there any oil so that I can burn down the wooden tower? DM: (Well, there might be some, but that might be powerful, too) Roll a luck check. PC: 13, +2 charisma modifier -- 15! DM: Yeah, there's a small keg of lamp oil sitting around. PC: So I won the drinking contest and won his horse. What kind is it? DM: (Uh, didn't think you'd be entering a drinking contest...) Roll a luck check. PC: Uh, 2. DM: It's an old, wheesing light horse, untrained for battle and thankfully not that sick.
Vaalingrade Ashland 06-24-06, 01:35 AM	While I'm still working on refining the stat, here's one aspect I'm rather fond of: Whenever you make an untrained roll, you use your Luck modifier -- for better or for worse. Luck also controled how many non-plot, non-encounter situtations go your way. For example, whether or not a shop carried a rare item, or if a person fitting a specific description happens to wander by. I keyed Luck to a new gamble skill and keyed it to profession as well. Luck also modified random treasure and encounter rolls. (Character with the best luck rolls to determine if the treasure is better than expected, character with the worst rolled to determine it the encounter was worse.)
Lord Ian Stark 06-24-06, 01:56 AM	Our group has a luck percentage that I'll ask them to roll usually once a night. Basically for times if the party finds a bag of holding type senario where there's a chance something may be in the bag. I'll also do this for rooms in a dungeon that wouldn't have anything and so forth. Their percent = Intelligence + Wisdom score divided by 4, rounded down. So basically if someone had a 14 Int and a 12 Wis that would be 28 divided by 4 = 7%. So if they by chance roll 01, 02, 03, 04, 05, 06 or 07 on percentile dice, they will get to do a straight roll out of the magic item table in the DMG. The DM always has final say though. ;) Different but an added chance of finding something neat and adding some flavor to the game.
Cantankerous 06-24-06, 02:13 AM	Luck, that's most of what hit points are. They certainly aren't ability to absorb damage. Isshia
Sphyre 06-24-06, 02:33 AM	While I'm still working on refining the stat, here's one aspect I'm rather fond of: Whenever you make an untrained roll, you use your Luck modifier -- for better or for worse. As much as I think the rules already account for luck (... rolling a d20? heh) I think that's the best use of a luck check there could be, but the original abilities should have some effect too. I'd have the luck bonus/penalty actually add to the original rolls on untrained skills, if i added a luck score.
Whisper_Swiftblade 06-24-06, 02:37 AM	[QUOTE=Stafir Ortnev]I've actually seen the outlines for a homebrew mage that eventually gained luck related abilities. Basically at higher level's..once per day he could re-roll a single dieroll..his or someone elses. QUOTE] there i a class like that called Fate spinner in Tome and blood
Sikyanakotik 06-24-06, 02:44 AM	[QUOTE=Stafir Ortnev]I've actually seen the outlines for a homebrew mage that eventually gained luck related abilities. Basically at higher level's..once per day he could re-roll a single dieroll..his or someone elses. QUOTE] there i a class like that called Fate spinner in Tome and blood And an updated, improved version in Complete Arcane. There are plenty of ways to gain luck based abilities, but they have little to do with an actual Luck attribute. I'm not too keen on such a stat myself, mind you. It seems kind of hard to balance the effects of making one character "luckier" than others, as exceptional luck can theoretically render all other attributes and skill ranks worthless. Personally, I'd stick with using action dice to model heroic luck, letting the characters take the related feats from Eberron if they wish to have greater luck than normal.
Whisper_Swiftblade 06-24-06, 04:14 AM	another idea for a luck baced class is take the hexblades curce and make it give insted of taking away
Vaalingrade Ashland 06-24-06, 09:21 AM	As much as I think the rules already account for luck (... rolling a d20? heh) A d20 roll doesn't represent the character's luck as everyone has the exact same chances. The roll more or less equates to all other factors that can effect an activity that don't require a circumstance modifier. I think that's the best use of a luck check there could be, but the original abilities should have some effect too. I'd have the luck bonus/penalty actually add to the original rolls on untrained skills, if i added a luck score. The problem comes when you have a positive luck modifier and then train the skill, suddenly becoming much worse. That's why I outright replace the ability because it means you're operating on pure luck because you don't even know enough to apply say, your strength and it is a matter of luck if you know a fact about something you haven't studied, not intellegence.
Whisper_Swiftblade 06-24-06, 09:35 AM	The problem comes when you have a positive luck modifier and then train the skill, suddenly becoming much worse. That's why I outright replace the ability because it means you're operating on pure luck because you don't even know enough to apply say, your strength and it is a matter of luck if you know a fact about something you haven't studied, not intellegence. that's why it should be beginers luck, only use the luck bonus when you are doing something for the first time.
Sergikins 06-24-06, 10:00 AM	I say use Cha outright since cha seems to be a dump stat. The advanced players manuel by Green ronin has rules for luck, personally, i think the sum of all mental stats divided by three is a good idea, since unles you are a spellcaster, they have no really role other than skills
VrecknidjX 06-24-06, 10:09 AM	I think that using Charisma as luck is a bad idea. The PHB says that "Charisma measures a character's force of personality...." Just because someone has a tremendous amount of self-confidence, it doesn't mean that they're particularly lucky. And, just because someone lacks self esteem doesn't mean they're particularly unlucky. Some people are lucky, but don't see it, or don't acknowledge it (just ask their friends). Besides, I think that tying a luck score to the existing attributes is a bad thing (why would sorcerers, bards and paladins be luckier, on average, than everyone else?). I like the idea of action points that so many systems use. Those could be good for representing luck. If a character wanted to be particularly lucky, then maybe that character could take a feat that allowed the use of a d8 instead of a d6 when making action point rolls. Dave
Vaalingrade Ashland 06-24-06, 12:58 PM	I say use Cha outright since cha seems to be a dump stat. Only in groups that don't roleplay thier stats and never play Bards, Sorcerers, Paladins, or Rogues
Sphyre 06-24-06, 02:26 PM	A d20 roll doesn't represent the character's luck as everyone has the exact same chances. The roll more or less equates to all other factors that can effect an activity that don't require a circumstance modifier. Nope. It represents the Players luck ;) The actual result of the dice... and their overall deviation from the expected value is the luck or unluck of the player and thusly, character :P As for assigning a score to luck, it's weird in the first place. The problem comes when you have a positive luck modifier and then train the skill, suddenly becoming much worse. That's why I outright replace the ability because it means you're operating on pure luck because you don't even know enough to apply say, your strength and it is a matter of luck if you know a fact about something you haven't studied, not intellegence. best is responded to by whisper... that's why it should be beginers luck, only use the luck bonus when you are doing something for the first time. It's beginners luck, and it also emulates reality quite well. When I first started playing bowling (Without bumpers) I was getting scores of 150+ pretty easily. Since then I have consistently gotten average scores of around 60-100. I'm not a very good bowler... I never should have put that rank into Profession(Bowler). ;) I say use Cha outright since cha seems to be a dump stat. This varies highly from group to group. Personally, I prefer to have at least a 10 charisma, and whatever the case, I roleplay whatever charisma I have. Charisma being a dump stat can also have a huge negative effect on the group. Currently the group I'm DMing has chas ranging from 5-9, with one person who has a 10. They dumped their cha, and as a result, they are pretty much alone when it comes to help from others, and when they do something, they go pretty much unsung heroes. Luckily they have befriended a bard, who will sing songs of praise of their acts, and not their personalities so future generations may know... :P The nice thing though, is that they are roleplaying their characters quite well with their low charisma, actually getting in fights a lot with each other, but having too little force of personality to really hurt each other's feelings, so they continue to stick together. Like I said, it varies from player to player and group to group. It tends to be more of a dump stat for those who don't have a decent score to put in it, or for those who care only about smashing things, and not roleplaying.
kelvinaw273 06-24-06, 03:17 PM	I think luck factors into games enough as it is wioth the dice rolls. You know, you sometimes have evenings when everything goes right or everything goes wrong. Sometimes you cannot fail, and sometimes you cannot get anything to go right. I do like the idea of using Charisma as the luck stat, though.
lint trap 06-24-06, 04:09 PM	I've always seen luck as a player issue, not a character issue. Also, like my players, it tends to streak (don't ask). Making it a permanent turns luck into something a character can count on having, rather than something that is hoped and prayed for. For the "luck by request" thing, I allow players one re-roll per night, with the following condition; they must re-roll one check of my choosing and take the lowest at some later, crucial point. As I'm fairly malicious about this "bad luck" check, they are very skittish about abusing the laws of chance.
Sinaz 06-24-06, 04:30 PM	I have a fundemental disagreement with using additional dice rolls or stats to "simulate" luck. Dice are, by thier very nature, conduits for luck. It's kind of weird. It's like listing 'tomato sauce' as an ingredient in tomato sauce. True, in the real world, people seem to have more luck than others. But this is a matter of perspective. Good and bad luck and the seeming excessiveness in an individual person is not really biased. It's just a quark in the grand scheme of probability. The odds catch up with everyone. The luck of a character shows up in every die roll made. What you really intend to do is nerf the rolls of a player so that they are more friendly to him by tacking a permanent favorable circumstances bonus. If you intend to counter this with "Oh, but the player could end up with a negative luck modifier." Well, to that I say you haven't really thought that out very well. Players are constantly and poignantly aware of when they hit a run of bad rolls. They don't need nor want a negative modifier that helps them stay in that slump simply for flavor. In the end, its up to you and your gamers. I've tried many many house rules that seemed like great ideas at the time, but they end up vetoed because they end up with hidden annoyances we didn't consider. Ok... so, what I'm trying to say... a "luck" stat is redundant. It's inherently built in to every character you ever create. A butterfly flapping its wings in Central Park assigns it for you. Tacking a positive bias to a player's luck will make bad-luck ridden players occasionally seem mediocre, and good luck players overly powerful. Inversely, tacking a negative bias to a player's luck will drive a bad-luck ridden player crazy, and end up annoyingly hindering a player with a streak of real good luck. It's gonna backfire at some point, and eventually everyone is going to have an epiphany: "OMG! Dice rolls are totally RANDOM! A luck stat is utterly pointless!" ... Because all the friends I play with understand how probability works, and the nature of the die roll (we do, afterall, live only five hours from Vegas), to counter what appears to be bad luck for the player, we typically just swap dice (mine, being the lucky DM, with the unlucky player's) which is purely an act of superstition.
INeedNoSalt 06-24-06, 04:38 PM	I have to disagree. Sometimes a character concept simply involves being lucky, and a mechanic to represent that can be useful. I mentioned the Storyteller System's take earlier on, and I like it. When a lucky person is in a jam, they can reroll up to 3 failures (Luck defaults to a 3-point merit) per story. Since it's an a small sort of addition, your normal 'dice' luck is still the primary force of 'luck', but sometimes when it's absolutely necessary, your character's luck can save them. In Exalted, I played a character with 5 Luck - with the stipulation that it could only be used in combat, and only to reroll defensive failures OR force an enemy to reroll their damage. (Part of her backstory and her excuse for not wearing armor was that in battle, it seemed no matter what happened, she was never taking any noteworthy blows.)
Vaalingrade Ashland 06-24-06, 04:43 PM	The reason so many people want to make a working luck stat is because there is a fantasy archtype of a character who is inherently more lucky or less lucky than other people. It has nothing to do with the player's luck with the dic rolls, but an inherent 'luck factor' in the character. In a game without action points, it may be feasable to have the luck stat grant a certain number of action points (or an equivalent) for this purpose.
Sinaz 06-24-06, 05:04 PM	I hear ya... but luck really is an illusion. And what you're adding is just a permanent favorable circumstances bonus. Like I said, anyone and everyone should play how they want... but to me, if a player said "I'd like a luck bonus because my character is inherently lucky", I'd interpret that as "I'm a powergamer and I want every roll I make to be that much more likely to succeed." I think that a character's propensity for luck should be a retroactive realization. After a career of adventuring, the legend of an adventurer will tell you if that character was inherently lucky or not. I'm just giving you my perspective on "luck". PS - Another thing that biases my point of view, is that unlike other skills and stats, "luck" is not something you can train in. Therefore, it really shouldn't be a stat.
INeedNoSalt 06-24-06, 05:14 PM	And what you're adding is just a permanent favorable circumstances bonus. Although that's a bit extreme, I really don't see how luck, instituted in the form of action points or 1/session rerolls (I really like how WW uses out-of-character durations - scenes, chapters, stories... - instead of set durations, like 1/day) would be more reasonable, especially if it required a feat or two.
Derren S. 06-24-06, 05:34 PM	The dice represent the characters luck.
INeedNoSalt 06-24-06, 05:35 PM	The dice represent the characters luck. It's a bad representation. Sometimes a character has to be almost supernaturally lucky as part of their concept, and having the concept break down because the player gets unlucky rolls is stupid.
Atirakis 06-24-06, 05:42 PM	I agree but another ability score is not what is needed or practical. I recommend (and use myself) a luck bonus on either all or specific rolls. Its simple and already used by WoTC ;) and can be adjusted to whatever levels you need it to be. This also puts it in the DMs hands as to how lucky any certain person in his or her world is rather then making it another stat to roll up since nobody in real life ever gets to decide how lucky they are.
Vaalingrade Ashland 06-24-06, 05:45 PM	The dice represent the characters luck. The dice do not represent the character's luck in any way. The dice may be effected by the player's luck, but that has nothing at all to do with an attribute of the character. Also, anyone who has been actually reading the proposed applications of luck cannot possibly come to the conclusion that they are there for powergaming.
Sikyanakotik 06-24-06, 07:34 PM	I hear ya... but luck really is an illusion. And what you're adding is just a permanent favorable circumstances bonus. That statement is just as true as it is irrelevent. In a fantasy world, luck itself can easily be an explicit force. In fact, prestige classes like the Fatespinner, Luckstealer, and Wild Mage imply this to be true by default in D&D. Thus a character in D&D can possibly be said to be "lucky" beyond simply having had a goodly amount of recent prosperity. I'm still not convinced this needs a stat of it's own, however. An incredibly lucky character could easily just have feats related to action dice and saving throws, an excellent dexterity score, and some notes in his backstory.
Dan Hemmens 06-24-06, 08:16 PM	That statement is just as true as it is irrelevent. In a fantasy world, luck itself can easily be an explicit force. In fact, prestige classes like the Fatespinner, Luckstealer, and Wild Mage imply this to be true by default in D&D. Thus a character in D&D can possibly be said to be "lucky" beyond simply having had a goodly amount of recent prosperity. However, the original poster did originally state that he wanted a luck stat for "realism" because "some people are just luckier than others". Which is, in fact, untrue.
Vaalingrade Ashland 06-24-06, 09:24 PM	In Heroic Fantasy, however, some people are luckier than others. Hell, even in DnD, we have some form of this in items like the Luckstone. There is clear prescident for a 'luck' mechanic that has no basis in the actual dice roll.
Reversefigure4 06-25-06, 01:07 AM	It's a bad representation. Sometimes a character has to be almost supernaturally lucky as part of their concept, and having the concept break down because the player gets unlucky rolls is stupid. Concepts don't stand up to the dice. Simon the Rogue is considered a light fingered expert trapbreaker, and his character backstory and concept reflect this. He has 10 ranks in Disable Device to show it. Yet, he can still roll a 2 on his Disable Device check and fail to disarm the trap. Thog the Barbarian, for all his herculean strength, can still roll low and fail to break down the door. It can happen multiple times in a row. A skilled fighter can miss over and over again with his sword. On the flipside, Simons foolish brother Sid, with only a single rank in Disable Device, can roll a natural 19 and get enough to beat the DC. While Simon's chances are higher than Sid's, there's nothing stop a run of good or bad luck on either part. The dice already naturally reflect luck, but not in a controllable fashion. Yes, they reflect the player's luck (not the characters). But attempting to reflect the character's luck is ridiculous. It would have to reflect in everything the character does. A lucky character is more likely to find better items, succeed more in skill checks (Sid just happens to find the right wire on his Disable Device check, Thog hits the weak part of the door), hit more in combat, be hit less in combat... Why wouldn't everyone just take luck as their highest score? You'd be better off to have high luck than anything other stat or ability.
INeedNoSalt 06-25-06, 01:14 AM	Concepts don't stand up to the dice. Simon the Rogue is considered a light fingered expert trapbreaker, and his character backstory and concept reflect this. He has 10 ranks in Disable Device to show it. Yet, he can still roll a 2 on his Disable Device check and fail to disarm the trap. Thog the Barbarian, for all his herculean strength, can still roll low and fail to break down the door. It can happen multiple times in a row. A skilled fighter can miss over and over again with his sword. On the flipside, Simons foolish brother Sid, with only a single rank in Disable Device, can roll a natural 19 and get enough to beat the DC. While Simon's chances are higher than Sid's, there's nothing stop a run of good or bad luck on either part. The dice already naturally reflect luck, but not in a controllable fashion. Yes, they reflect the player's luck (not the characters). But attempting to reflect the character's luck is ridiculous. It would have to reflect in everything the character does. A lucky character is more likely to find better items, succeed more in skill checks (Sid just happens to find the right wire on his Disable Device check, Thog hits the weak part of the door), hit more in combat, be hit less in combat... Why wouldn't everyone just take luck as their highest score? You'd be better off to have high luck than anything other stat or ability. I never advocated having a Luck 'stat' gave a set bonus to anything. You'd not be better off having a higher luck than anything with the idea I suggested (stolen from White Wolf), where there's a limit to the number of 'luck' things you have, as well as how often you can use them. (Sort of like action points.) You can represent Simon's luck (in the form of a 'second chance' by letting him reroll 1 Disable Device per session. It's not overwhelming, it's just there. And no, I don't know how to put it into this game in a balanced manner unless it was like a feat for every reroll/session/day.
Vaalingrade Ashland 06-25-06, 01:23 AM	okay, people need to stop saying that the dice reflect luck. They don't.
Sinaz 06-25-06, 01:39 AM	Ok, to distill what I've been saying in my posts down to its simplest form: Making a stat to convey a sense of luck is a calculated waste of effort. Let's say Johnny DnD player as a person is just plagued by rotten luck... Johnny: "My PC, Gorgash is the kind of guy who is always lucky!" DM: "Well, by gosh, I've got just the thing!" roll roll "He now has a +3 to all his rolls because of his 'luck stat.'" Johnny: "YAY!" During the session Johnny rolls nothing higher than a 4 with his D20 for the entire freaking night. 7 and below is not enough to accomplish anything and his character just gets clobbered left and right. The DM suggests that Johnny not bother buying any lotto tickets. Gorgash, even though he is supposed to be a wickedly lucky person in a fantasy setting, has fallen victim to natural probability of real world randomness and turned out against 'all odds' to be a very unlucky character. Every roll of the die is its own unique microcosm of quantum physics. There is no real way to make a character seem 'lucky' other than nerfing every failed roll. Just because you assign a "luck" bonus of some sort, whether it be a chance to reroll, or a bonus to specific rolls, or anything short of simply fudging rolls in favor of the player can be blown by extremely low dice rolls. Something no one, especially not a number or description on a sheet of paper, can control. Your best bet for instituting a true "luck" stat is by allowing a player to place his die on the table with whatever result he wants so many times per day. Otherwise, the bonuses don't count for jack. The player's true real world luck still has to make the random die roll result in a number that makes the bonus worth its while. [...] I do notice that what a lot of people are suggesting is a sort of Deus Ex Machina check. Roll against DC 10 to see whether or not the DM will alter reality for you. Or simply grant a reroll. Again, this is redundant, because giving people more chances to roll a die does not increase the odds of success.
Vaalingrade Ashland 06-25-06, 01:59 AM	Okay, clearly some people aren't terribly familiar with probability and bell curves. Look, in the genre of heroic fantasy, there is in fact such a thing as luck. It does not exist in out world, we merely think it does. But in a fantastic world, there are people who are blessed or cursed by Fate itself and there should be a mechnic to reflect that. There is already a pre-existing precident for luck bonuses (including the luckstone, which provides a blanket luck bonus) as well as some precident for luck to be tied to actual changes int he result of rolls of the dice. The movement proposed by the pro-luck statters is thus: to codify Luck as an inherent part of each character in thier game -- for good or ill. There is nothing wrong with this. In fact, my proto-type of the luck stat has been quite popular with my players, even though it only effected random events, non-plot situations and untrains skills (which rarely came up.) I feel that as is, however, Luck as a stat under my system does not have enough to justify it as a stat that counts toward point buy and such (Under my system, Luck was a stright 3d6 roll). And at this point, I will reiterate: There is no such thing as 'real world luck'. Its just something we like to believe in that has no real basis. Two people rolling dice for any meaningful amount of time will both fall into the bell curve. The Lower self esteem individual, if he beleives in luck, will give more weight to his low rolls and attribute it to bad luck and visa versa.
Vaalingrade Ashland 06-25-06, 02:01 AM	However, the original poster did originally state that he wanted a luck stat for "realism" because "some people are just luckier than others". Which is, in fact, untrue. It doesn't matter. A lot of people insinuate that things are done for 'realism' without a firm understanding of: 1) Realism 2) The fact that realism means squat in heroic fantasy.
Sinaz 06-25-06, 02:08 AM	Look, in the genre of heroic fantasy, there is in fact such a thing as luck. It does not exist in out world, we merely think it does. But in a fantastic world, there are people who are blessed or cursed by Fate itself and there should be a mechnic to reflect that. Uh oh... now hold on a second. Fate and luck are two very different things. Do you want a luck stat or a fate stat? At least in my games... luck is what happens to the PCs everytime a die bounces off the table... fate is the path I design for them that hopefully they follow more or less until they save the world.
INeedNoSalt 06-25-06, 02:10 AM	Uh oh... now hold on a second. Fate and luck are two very different things. Do you want a luck stat or a fate stat? At least in my games... luck is what happens to the PCs everytime a die bounces off the table... fate is the path I design for them that hopefully they follow more or less until they save the world. Let's argue semantics! :thumbsup:
Sikyanakotik 06-25-06, 02:17 AM	Uh oh... now hold on a second. Fate and luck are two very different things. Do you want a luck stat or a fate stat? Technically, if there is fate, then there is no luck. But then, fate is pretty much the same as railroading, so you probably don't want to model that.
Vaalingrade Ashland 06-25-06, 02:19 AM	Uh oh... now hold on a second. Fate and luck are two very different things. Do you want a luck stat or a fate stat? At least in my games... luck is what happens to the PCs everytime a die bounces off the table... fate is the path I design for them that hopefully they follow more or less until they save the world. I said Fate, not fate. I'm talking vast, overarching cosmic unknowable on par with the gods that just seems to look out for certain people and spit on others -- the source of luck in a fantasy world. Not the inevitable future. I have no doubt that you knew this though.
Derren S. 06-25-06, 02:59 AM	The dice do not represent the character's luck in any way. The dice may be effected by the player's luck, but that has nothing at all to do with an attribute of the character. Yes, but there has to be some interface between the player and the character and that is the dice. When you have a very lucky character (high luck stat) but the player always rolls below 10 is the character really lucky even though he fails at everything? You simply can't detach the character from the player completly unless you remove the dice completly.
prawn 06-25-06, 08:30 AM	I also use CHA for luck. Characters make a luck roll when something bad will happen to a random member of the party. For example, who is in the way of the avalanche? Who looks like the guy that raped the BBEG's daughter? We do it in this way: I say "Everybody make a Charisma Check" Roll a d20, add your charisma bonus, lowest roll has the bad thing happen to them.
Dan Hemmens 06-25-06, 12:38 PM	Yes, but there has to be some interface between the player and the character and that is the dice. When you have a very lucky character (high luck stat) but the player always rolls below 10 is the character really lucky even though he fails at everything? You simply can't detach the character from the player completly unless you remove the dice completly. But that's the thing. The dice do not represent your character being lucky, they represent the million circumstances which it is beyond the DM to adequately represent. When you make a Knowledge: The Planes roll to identify a particular demon, it represents the fact that your character has, in their lifetime, discovered details about a large number of demons, and this may or may not be one of them. In character, it is a completely deterministic situation: either you have heard of this demon or you have not. Out of character, it is a dice roll, because we have no other fair way of deciding whether or not you happened to read the chapter on Chain Devils in the Big Book of Baator.
Ekranoplan 06-25-06, 01:10 PM	Yes, but there has to be some interface between the player and the character and that is the dice. When you have a very lucky character (high luck stat) but the player always rolls below 10 is the character really lucky even though he fails at everything? You simply can't detach the character from the player completly unless you remove the dice completly. A high level fighter could fail at every combat roll because they roll under a 10 all the time. It does not make sense, but it is possible. Since I live in the real world I cannot be gifted with supernatural luck. When rolling dice I conform to the average overtime. If I wanted to make a character whose main strength is being lucky all the time it would be impossible. The only way it could be done is to add a luck score or some type of luck mechanic. It is possible that this lucky hero could fail everything because I roll under a 10. It does not make sense, but it is possible. (Also if there was a lucky character concept, im sure it would include a few abilities that allowed rerolls.) And like Dan Hemmens said, the d20 roll represents more then just luck.
Ryusage 06-25-06, 01:15 PM	Some people are luckier than others. plain and simple. I would disagree here. I don't think that people are any luckier than others. Luck bonuses do the trick in D&D, you don't need a separate ability score for it.
Sinaz 06-25-06, 01:22 PM	I said Fate, not fate. I'm talking vast, overarching cosmic unknowable on par with the gods that just seems to look out for certain people and spit on others -- the source of luck in a fantasy world. Not the inevitable future. I have no doubt that you knew this though. Well, I was just saying that neither fate nor Fate is "luck".