a mental/puzzle challenge? [Archive] - Wizards Community

a mental/puzzle challenge? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
electricbutterflies
01-16-08, 11:02 AM I am a new dm running a game for 4--three players with 20+ years experience and one truly new player. The adventure is set mostly in forested rural halfling lands, with dark clerics as the evil masterminds. There is a large, open-minded trade city in the next 1-2 sessions though, which might offer more potential...Overall, it goes well, but i am looking to challenge them with something more than just monsters-i want to add a bit of a puzzle, possibly with political overtones that will be a fresh challenge for my vets w/o being overwhelming to my new player, and this is where i come up blank. :banghead: The last thing i want is a gamestopper....But i want them thinking!
vonklaude
01-16-08, 12:21 PM I am looking to challenge them with something more than just monsters-i want to add a bit of a puzzle, possibly with political overtones that will be a fresh challenge for my vets w/o being overwhelming to my new player, and this is where i come up blank. :banghead: The last thing i want is a gamestopper....But i want them thinking!

I've been thinking out a couple of puzzles myself: perhaps this is a good opportunity to get some feedback on them. The puzzles are chambers in a lawful maze (you can successfully traverse it by following one wall). Each time you fail a puzzle you lose half your HP, which will be relevant in the final encounter: a fight with the Devil-Lord whose maze it is. You can have multiple attempts at the same chamber, losing HP each failed attempt, and you can heal yourself. However, there is no opportunity to rest and recover spells until you complete the maze and beat its owner.

The first is a test of duty. You have a goblet of water, which you must deliver where it will best fulfil a burden of duty. You must choose between:

a) a scrawny peasant boy trembling and croaking with great thirst,

b) a comely mother breast-feeding her infant girl,

c) a corpulent crowned King with a great flagon of wine,

d) three bleating and huffing goats,

e) or you can pour it out into a basin for libations to the gods.

The answer that I judge correct is at the bottom of this post.

The second is a test of knowledge. In five niches are five keys. The backs of the niches are coloured red, orange, yellow, green, and blue. You may take one key, after which the niches are sealed. Now you step into a room whose floor is divided as a chessboard is, and on whose diagonally opposite wall is a pentagram with each triangle coloured as the backs of the niches were, and in each triangle is a key-hole. You are on a black square in the bottom-left corner of the room.

As you cross the room, if you step on a white square the colours on the pentagram rotate clockwise by two steps, e.g. red rotates to the position of yellow, while yellow rotates to the position of blue. If you step on a black square, the colours rotate the same direction, but only by one step. The squares, naturally, are a single good pace broad, such that you can step from square to square as you like, but you cannot cross more than one square in a single step.

The pentagram is above the black square at the top-right of the room, and the key-holes can only be reached from that square. The pentagram points downward, and the start position has red in the bottom triangle, and so on from there the colours clockwise.

Which key do you take at the outset, what steps do you take to reach the opposite corner, and when you get there what key-hole do you put your key into? Again, the answer is below.

----------------------------
Answers

Since I apply a medieval world view to my game world, the correct answer for any character is c). When you deliver the goblet of water to the King he takes it and divides it fairly between the others, pouring the last drops into the basin and keeping nothing for himself. Duty is not piety or mercy: it is a distinctly lawful burden.

For the second puzzle, I'm playing with the idea of qualia and the thought experiment of swapping them around. The colours do not rotate, what rotates is your perception of the colours.

What that means is that all you need to do is remember the colour at the back of your niche and put your key into the hole that was that colour at the start.

The twist of course is that you entered the room on a black square, ergo the colours in the pentagram have already been rotated one step when you first laid eyes on them. Thus, if you have the key from the red-backed niche, you put it in the key-hole in the triangle one step anticlockwise from red's start position, i.e. the one that is blue when you first see it.

Other than that first step, and the twist it creates, the moves you make on the black and white squares are irrelevant.

---------------------------

Do these puzzles seem fair?

-vk
narack
01-16-08, 12:51 PM The good answer would be D. the goats would produce Milk for the others answers.
vonklaude
01-16-08, 04:10 PM The good answer would be D. the goats would produce Milk for the others answers.

That would confuse pragmatism with duty. Duty is not the best action, but the proper action. It might make sense to say that the King gives the water to the goats, and the boy milks them. Hmm, actually I like that.

-vk
BioEngine
01-16-08, 04:55 PM 1. One sidequest I offered a druid was to find a way of using a single blue rosebush to propagate many smaller bushes. This was to aid a nobleman with preparations for his wedding ceremonies.

2. Or perhaps the king wishes to find the kingdom's best archer to instruct his personal bodyguards, which are later revealed to be assassins bent to the king's curropt will?

3. What if two bordering nations were blaming each other for a rash of shipwrecks along their shared coast, and in order to avoid a war "someone" must find the true cause?

4. A local mine has uncovered a (vein of gold / vein of platinum / cache of diamonds) beneath the city, and the King is trying to take control and ownership of its riches. He temporarily transfers a large portion of his military and guard to work in the mines, extracting its resources. At the same time, he offers to hire local mercenaries to defend the mines from pillagers.

5. A diplomat to a foreign country could employ the services of the PCs to aid him in negotiating peace with Thay. Have the diplomat be pathetically weak of will, asking the PCs for advise and help with almost everything. It puts the PCs in a position of power, and the hostile environment of Thay will impress upon them the necessity to see that this endeavor is successfully executed.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
electricbutterflies 01-16-08, 11:02 AM	I am a new dm running a game for 4--three players with 20+ years experience and one truly new player. The adventure is set mostly in forested rural halfling lands, with dark clerics as the evil masterminds. There is a large, open-minded trade city in the next 1-2 sessions though, which might offer more potential...Overall, it goes well, but i am looking to challenge them with something more than just monsters-i want to add a bit of a puzzle, possibly with political overtones that will be a fresh challenge for my vets w/o being overwhelming to my new player, and this is where i come up blank. :banghead: The last thing i want is a gamestopper....But i want them thinking!
vonklaude 01-16-08, 12:21 PM	I am looking to challenge them with something more than just monsters-i want to add a bit of a puzzle, possibly with political overtones that will be a fresh challenge for my vets w/o being overwhelming to my new player, and this is where i come up blank. :banghead: The last thing i want is a gamestopper....But i want them thinking! I've been thinking out a couple of puzzles myself: perhaps this is a good opportunity to get some feedback on them. The puzzles are chambers in a lawful maze (you can successfully traverse it by following one wall). Each time you fail a puzzle you lose half your HP, which will be relevant in the final encounter: a fight with the Devil-Lord whose maze it is. You can have multiple attempts at the same chamber, losing HP each failed attempt, and you can heal yourself. However, there is no opportunity to rest and recover spells until you complete the maze and beat its owner. The first is a test of duty. You have a goblet of water, which you must deliver where it will best fulfil a burden of duty. You must choose between: a) a scrawny peasant boy trembling and croaking with great thirst, b) a comely mother breast-feeding her infant girl, c) a corpulent crowned King with a great flagon of wine, d) three bleating and huffing goats, e) or you can pour it out into a basin for libations to the gods. The answer that I judge correct is at the bottom of this post. The second is a test of knowledge. In five niches are five keys. The backs of the niches are coloured red, orange, yellow, green, and blue. You may take one key, after which the niches are sealed. Now you step into a room whose floor is divided as a chessboard is, and on whose diagonally opposite wall is a pentagram with each triangle coloured as the backs of the niches were, and in each triangle is a key-hole. You are on a black square in the bottom-left corner of the room. As you cross the room, if you step on a white square the colours on the pentagram rotate clockwise by two steps, e.g. red rotates to the position of yellow, while yellow rotates to the position of blue. If you step on a black square, the colours rotate the same direction, but only by one step. The squares, naturally, are a single good pace broad, such that you can step from square to square as you like, but you cannot cross more than one square in a single step. The pentagram is above the black square at the top-right of the room, and the key-holes can only be reached from that square. The pentagram points downward, and the start position has red in the bottom triangle, and so on from there the colours clockwise. Which key do you take at the outset, what steps do you take to reach the opposite corner, and when you get there what key-hole do you put your key into? Again, the answer is below. ---------------------------- Answers Since I apply a medieval world view to my game world, the correct answer for any character is c). When you deliver the goblet of water to the King he takes it and divides it fairly between the others, pouring the last drops into the basin and keeping nothing for himself. Duty is not piety or mercy: it is a distinctly lawful burden. For the second puzzle, I'm playing with the idea of qualia and the thought experiment of swapping them around. The colours do not rotate, what rotates is your perception of the colours. What that means is that all you need to do is remember the colour at the back of your niche and put your key into the hole that was that colour at the start. The twist of course is that you entered the room on a black square, ergo the colours in the pentagram have already been rotated one step when you first laid eyes on them. Thus, if you have the key from the red-backed niche, you put it in the key-hole in the triangle one step anticlockwise from red's start position, i.e. the one that is blue when you first see it. Other than that first step, and the twist it creates, the moves you make on the black and white squares are irrelevant. --------------------------- Do these puzzles seem fair? -vk
narack 01-16-08, 12:51 PM	The good answer would be D. the goats would produce Milk for the others answers.
vonklaude 01-16-08, 04:10 PM	The good answer would be D. the goats would produce Milk for the others answers. That would confuse pragmatism with duty. Duty is not the best action, but the proper action. It might make sense to say that the King gives the water to the goats, and the boy milks them. Hmm, actually I like that. -vk
BioEngine 01-16-08, 04:55 PM	1. One sidequest I offered a druid was to find a way of using a single blue rosebush to propagate many smaller bushes. This was to aid a nobleman with preparations for his wedding ceremonies. 2. Or perhaps the king wishes to find the kingdom's best archer to instruct his personal bodyguards, which are later revealed to be assassins bent to the king's curropt will? 3. What if two bordering nations were blaming each other for a rash of shipwrecks along their shared coast, and in order to avoid a war "someone" must find the true cause? 4. A local mine has uncovered a (vein of gold / vein of platinum / cache of diamonds) beneath the city, and the King is trying to take control and ownership of its riches. He temporarily transfers a large portion of his military and guard to work in the mines, extracting its resources. At the same time, he offers to hire local mercenaries to defend the mines from pillagers. 5. A diplomat to a foreign country could employ the services of the PCs to aid him in negotiating peace with Thay. Have the diplomat be pathetically weak of will, asking the PCs for advise and help with almost everything. It puts the PCs in a position of power, and the hostile environment of Thay will impress upon them the necessity to see that this endeavor is successfully executed.