Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Araspas 12-22-05, 05:48 PM	I live in Japan and it is difficult to find players who live close by. So I'm starting a new game in the new year with a group of players culled from the greater Tokyo population. Just wanted to ask all the wise DMs on this board for a little advice on working with a group of players that don't even know each other. I have had unknown players join established campaigns but this is a mixed bag from the start. Any advice is welcome. From character creation styles to scheduling pitfalls. I am truly and humbly awaiting your reply -Araspas-
Fixxxer 12-22-05, 05:58 PM	Well, the largest problem you're likely to run into right off the bat is that the players will feel awkward around each other. They won't be confortable roleplaying around people they don't know. How I've dealt with this in the past is to create a situation that helps the players get to know each other as well as giving the PCs an opportunity to bond with one another as well. You need to do a bit of prep work prior to the game. First, get a big fat candle with three or four wicks. Place this in the center of your gaming area...this is going to be your campfire. Next, wrap some beef jerky, pita bread and dried fruit and nuts up in cheesecloth to make little packets...these are going to be the PC's trail rations. What you want to do is bring the PCs together somehow, just as you would in any other new game. Perhaps they meet in a bar or they're all hired by the same lord...whatever, so long as it forces them to be together. I've found that getting them into a barfight which gets them all kicked out of town works, as they're likely to share a campfire for the night, if nothing else. Once you've got them together and they make camp for the night, light up the candle, dim the lights, hand out a ration packets to each player and tell them that they are now their PCs sitting around the campfire. Encourage them to talk to one another as their PCs...just simple conversation, the kind of thing you might expect people sitting around a fire to talk about. If they do well, reward them afterwards with a bit of roleplaying XP. I've had great success with this technique in the past. It opens the players up and shows them it's alright to roleplay with each other. It also provides an excuse for the PCs to get to know each other a bit, which helps justify why they suddenly decide to go adventuring together.
Kesht 12-22-05, 06:03 PM	I second Fixxxer's idea. I've used something very much like it before and it worked out great!
Dig 12-22-05, 06:49 PM	Before you start Ask them if they have played before. If they did ask them to bring an old character sheet, you can tell alot by looking at old PC's. Then simply ask them all what kind of game/gaming experience they wish to play.
Tuah 12-22-05, 07:06 PM	Oh how I envy you. I've always wanted to go to Japan! :D Anyways, I suggest telling them that roleplaying is the most important part. If characters are always roleplaying, they get to know each others' thoughts better. Also, use the techniques mentioned in the DMG to help with scenery, such as dimmed lights and music.
BoldBadger 12-22-05, 10:04 PM	I like the campfire idea, but it is probably a little too theatrical for the guys that I play with. You need to have players that can tolerate each other. If your players can not at least tolerate each other the game will not last more than two or three weeks. At least that is what I have experienced.
«hõ†šÞïkê18» 12-22-05, 10:14 PM	I really like the campfire idea, but I'd also like to suggest something simple. Just go have fun as friends, go to a club, restaurant, or bar and meet eachother, have some fun, etc. Get to know all the players and get them to feel comfortable spending time with eachother as people. Ask them what they want out of the campaign and let them answer as a group and discuss it amongst themselves. Once they get to a real session, they will feel comfortable (if all went well anyway) being around eachother and can then invest their time in more useful activities than worrying about some social anxiety. Besides, we're all nerds-so they shouldn't even be picking up on those silly social indicators for mere mortals in the realms of men. :P
trapspringer 12-22-05, 10:46 PM	Yea, the whole "candles and trail rations" thing would pretty much run me off (not literally, but socially). Dorks are social creatures by nature, so no unusual methods should be required. Relax, run your game. It will be more fun because they do not know each other, not less. Co-ordinating this many people will require two things. You must be consistant, as in "every Sunday." They must be willing to make room for your game "every Sunday." So long as both you and they are together on this, it should be no problem.
Araspas 12-23-05, 11:02 AM	I am overwhelmed... I, first of all, would like to thank Fixxxer, Kesht, Dig, Tuah, BoldBadger, «hõ†šÞïkê18», and trapspringer for thier most excellent responses. I was in the starting throws of a DM panic attack when you came to my rescue. Thank you all. I will definitely to try to get the players to bond - if not in real life, at least in character. I also agree that there are two more very important factors to making this work. I will try to be consistent with my schedule and my adjudication AND I will try to give these particular players a reason to be sitting across the table from one another. AKA-hook...hoOK...HOOK!!! As you have all been so helpful already, perhaps I should ask one more. Which character creation method do you recommend for a middle of the road, starting from 1st level campaign? I'm leaning toward the standard point buy in the DM guide. Any thoughts? And...oh yes, even in Japan, we are all nerds and dorks!
celtredleg 12-23-05, 01:36 PM	A big thing for me on mixed groups like that is to try to get some idea what they are looking for in style. A large group will probably have a few hack and slash types, and a few Roleplayers. Mixing the two is always a challenge. Find out early how many of each you have, and be ready to deal with them. As for creation, ask them what they are used to. Point buy is the best to keep everybody even, but if they are all used to rolling, then go wiith that. But, dont let anybody pre-roll thier charecters. Make them all at the table. I know this takes up time, but keeps suspisions down. Even people who know each other well, dont like players to show up with super charecters.
Fixxxer 12-23-05, 02:07 PM	And...oh yes, even in Japan, we are all nerds and dorks! Actually, I met more geeks when I was in Japan than I ever had in the US at that point. Too bad my travelling never allowed me time to game.
DrMorganes 12-23-05, 02:41 PM	I am overwhelmed...Hopefully in a good way ;) Which character creation method do you recommend for a middle of the road, starting from 1st level campaign? I'm leaning toward the standard point buy in the DM guide. Any thoughts?For a group of stangers who know nothing of each other, point buy will solve a lot of issues: arguments over high ability scores, balance issues for low-level encounters, general complaining over an average set of ability scores due to average dice rolls, etc. Keep in mind, however, that with point buy many players consider certain abilities as "dump stats" and won't bother to boost them to even average (10). Make sure you take advantage of this at some point in the game. A group of low-CHA PCs will have a hard time in social settings where tact and diplomacy are key... such encounters are VERY useful at lower levels, as there is little chance for a character death.
Araspas 12-23-05, 08:07 PM	dont let anybody pre-roll thier charecters. Make them all (do it) at the table. I know this takes up time, but keeps suspisions down. Even people who know each other well, dont like players to show up with super characters. Yes, I agree. Already two players have asked if they can pre-create. This just seems to be a bad idea. Keep in mind, however, that with point buy many players consider certain abilities as "dump stats" and won't bother to boost them to even average (10). A group of low-CHA PCs will have a hard time in social settings where tact and diplomacy are key... such encounters are VERY useful at lower levels, as there is little chance for a character death. I will definitely try this! It sounds like a great way to get in a little 'role' playing. I dislike stat dumping and love any new idea for making it less appealing to players. I met more geeks when I was in Japan than I ever had in the US. It's SO true! Just a stroll through Akihabara is enough for the average American geek to feel...well..NORMAL! This is indeed the home of the Ubergeek. It's GREAT!
Nom 12-23-05, 09:42 PM	I'm a big fan of standard point buy. That said, unless you're planning a one-off intro adventure, I would discourage players from independently creating characters. You'll usually end up with a disparate group that doesn't mesh very well. There's a lot to be said for designing characters in a group, even if they are later independently statted out. Actually, what I would do is to run a one-off adventure to start, only lasting one or two sessions. For players who already know the ruleset, tell them to bring a 25 point core only PC that would work for an adventure with backstory X. Stress that such PCs must be group-oriented: no independent loners, no backstabbers, no idiots. Anyone who won't accept these relatively weak limitations for an intro adventure is likely to be trouble down the track. For newer players, have a variety of PCs ready-made. Let each of these players say what sort of character they'd like to play, and give them a suitable PC from your stock. Obviously, you'll need 2-3x as many PCs as you have players. The initial adventure will give you an idea whose playstyles are compatible with yours. You can then think about starting the real campaign, and players can either keep their existing PC or make a new one. If you were thinking of including non-core material, now (not earlier) is the time to do it.
Araspas 12-26-05, 10:11 PM	The initial adventure will give you an idea whose playstyles are compatible with yours. You can then think about starting the real campaign, and players can either keep their existing PC or make a new one. Done! Just finished a one-off adventure with a tie-in to the larger campaign setting. This should be a great way to form a cohesive group. Thanks for the tip. Next question oh, wise DMs... I am planning to use minis for combat. I think this will help keep things flowing nicely. However, I have never used minis before and I am a little concerned that they will detract from the versimilitude of the game. Any things to include or avoid to make this work? Any pitfalls to be aware of? any clever thoughts on making minis not just work but, work well? What say you?
trapspringer 12-26-05, 10:57 PM	I like a twenty-eight point buy method, personally. It results in more round numbers and allows for some of the more ability-dependant classes (monks and paladins, most notably. 18,12,10,10,10,10 16,16,10,10,10,10 16,14,14,10,10,10 14,14,14,14,10,10
Gworraent 12-26-05, 11:02 PM	I like the campfire idea, but it is probably a little too theatrical for the guys that I play with. You need to have players that can tolerate each other. If your players can not at least tolerate each other the game will not last more than two or three weeks. At least that is what I have experienced. Oi vey! don't I know you feel. One guy isnt the sharpest guy (low int, and wis and cha) and cant roleplay at all. Every single one of his characters haven't gone through a session without him saying "muwahahahha", "hahahah *shink*" ( that's his onomonapeia for the sound of blades being drawn or demonic claws being unsheathed, he says this in a really annoying "evil" voice) "you will all die now" or "I make an intimidate check." All of his characters have been based on an anime show or (more likely) some sort of class or PrC that I read up on and talked about it's "coolness." He told me that he wouldnt have any patience to play a wizard or wu jen. Then one day he tells me that he wants to. This is a huge breakthrough, his wizard will not have multiple attacks, he'll have crappy attacks, crappy AC, crappy health! But then of course he tells me why he wants to be a wizard. " I just remembered how good your first character was, if I made one, it would be able to like, blow up everything. I was crushed. :( Player two is much brighter, (higher wisdom and int, still not very bright tho, kinda girly for a guy so not the best cha) However whenever he doesnt know things or is caught of gaurd during a roleplaying opportunity he just draws a blank and says "I dont know! What do you expect me to do?!?!!?" I'm not trying to be arrogant but honestly, if you sat in on one of our gaming sessions you'd know that my dm and I are the only people who can actually stay IC for more than 30 seconds at a time. And, more importantly can level up their character without asking anyone questions (not including magic of incarnum which I just got today!)
BobtheBiotitan 12-26-05, 11:09 PM	Oh how I envy you. I've always wanted to go to Japan! :D This may be off subject, but I once lived in japan and if given the choice would have never gone at all, at least never to mainland japan. The place was so crowded it was scary. I once say a baby die on a subway because she was crushed to death by the packed crowds, baby strollers are not allowed on the subways due to space constrainment. One other thing about mainland japan is it's effect on my health. When I lived there just breathing the air was like smoking four packs of cigarettes a day. I lived there for almost five years and have never been the same physically. I cannot run for long periods of time anymore, I developed "Smokers Lung" as they call it, I hate it. If you do visit Japan make it a short trip.
Fixxxer 12-26-05, 11:16 PM	I am planning to use minis for combat. I think this will help keep things flowing nicely. However, I have never used minis before and I am a little concerned that they will detract from the versimilitude of the game. Some people will tell you that it does detract from the feel of the game, making it feel more like a staregy war game than a role-playing game. Personally, I haven't noticed this at all. However, even if I did, I would almost certainly accept a small portion of the role-playing feel lost to strategy in exchange for the ease with which minis represent the combat field. I've witnessed and played in games without miniatures before. Everyone is always confused about where their PC is in relation to everything else. "How close am I? Could I hit him? Is my sword at my feet?" This may be off subject, but I once lived in japan and if given the choice would have never gone at all, at least never to mainland japan. I wasn't that impressed myself. I do find it extremely funny that here in the US, there's a subculture of people who think that Japan is like anime films, but in Japan, there's a subculture that thinks the US is like cowboy films...and neither is right.
trapspringer 12-26-05, 11:33 PM	Which is what I think is wrong with the world. We should, America and Japan, trade national leaders for a few weeks and get this straigtened out. The Japanese dudes can come set up the wild west, we will go set up... erm... Anime land, and then both sides can be happy. I know I would go to west world, crazy robots and all.
Tytalus 12-27-05, 03:04 AM	Please do not hijack the thread with Japan/US discussions. On topic: I personally wouldn't worry too much about it. Assuming that your new players are relatively mature and have some gaming experience, they should realize that it's in their own best interest to get to know each other fast. Character creation: I've personally never done an in-the-group character creation before, and it appears to me that there are both advantages and disadvantages. Of course, you are more likely to get a cohesive group (although that can be simiarly achieved by outlining the background and discussing character concepts beforehand as well). On the down side, it's very hard to come up with a deep concept within the time frame of a single session, I believe. I do see the benefits of getting to know each other this way, however, so I suggest that creation rules (acceptable sources, stat generation method, rough campaign background / setting) are made known to the players so that those who want to put in the extra time the generation can do so. I would find it rather frustrating to come up with a few concepts in advance only to find out none of them can be realized with the used rules (and please don't flame me that 'all possible concepts can be realized with core rules with similar flavour', that's simply not true). When it comes to making fundamental rule decisions, such as what character generation approach to use, I do agree with some of the previous posters that it's advisable to ask the players what they expect/want. If all players enjoy high-powered campaigns, then 30 or even 32 point buy might be a good choice (I'd personally recommend 28+). Alternatively, simply make these decisions yourself, based on how you envision your campaign to be like. And to reinforce two excellent points made before: a regular schedule is important (avoids all "oh, there was a game today?" situations). Simple as it sounds, but email reminders are also very helpful in the first few weeks. And the lead-in adventure is also great. Not only does it give you a chance to see the players in action, but afterwards is also a perfect opportunity to adjust rules and/or characters - before the real action begins.
Araspas 12-28-05, 09:15 PM	I do see the benefits of getting to know each other this way, however, so I suggest that creation rules (acceptable sources, stat generation method, rough campaign background / setting) are made known to the players so that those who want to put in the extra time the generation can do so. I would find it rather frustrating to come up with a few concepts in advance only to find out none of them can be realized with the used rules... First, thanks for getting the thread back on topic. Second, thanks for the good advice. I definitely do not want to frustrate the players before we even start. I have found, in the past, that as long as all the PCs are balanced with each other, it is easier to adjust the campaign to accomodate than it is to ask players to make changes to thier characters. Of course, some basic standard practices (rules sounds too harsh) such as all players using the same generation method (I like to offer two or three choices and let the players choose as a group) or some minor restrictions on races (no, you cannot play a Hound Archon Hero in my 1st level adventure) are necessary but should ultimately add to the campaign instead of restricting play. My least favorite thing to hear at the game table is "you're not allowed to do that." This is metagaming if I have ever heard it. What I prefer to hear is something like "I'm a dwarf! I can't run that fast!" or "This sack is to heavy for me, can someone give me a hand?" That kind of play not only makes me happy it also adds to earned XP in my game! On that note...Next question... Oh, wise and noble DMs...When and how do you like to award XP. I traditionally award XP when the party sets camp for the night or has a similar period of rest but, I have flirted with the idea of waiting until the end of each session. Any words of advice?
trapspringer 12-28-05, 09:26 PM	I generally like to award experience from the previous adventure at the beggining of the next session. This allows me to determine what level the players will be after all modifiers have been applied so I can make any changes to the adventure. It also forces the players to level up at the table, rather than at home. This is important because it cuts down on powergaming think-tank time and allows the players to co-ordinate a little. It also gives the players a chance to check with me on any minor rules-based questions. I will sometimes wait until a logical point of downtime, but more often just hand out the exp at the beggining of every session.
Sorbeth 12-28-05, 09:27 PM	I send an email out to the group after the session. Either in the few minuets between when I get home and crash into my bed (I have a good 45 minute drive to ponder any fluky XP details) or first thing in the morning. It keeps it fresh in my mind when I'm calculating it, and the players are able to update the PCs in the meantime.