Post/Author/DateTime	Post
robot flux 09-03-07, 02:06 PM	Hi! I am currently working on my campaign, where a party is going to a city and spend more or less time in there. I would be presenting this situation to you and ask for advice/tips/help, if needed. So, in the party there is, among others, a(n?) LG fighter and a(n?) NG tiefling. The fighter doesn't like her too much, but since they're from the same village, he knows her more or less and has accepted to travel with her. I have got some subtle messages from the player playing the tiefling that his character would like to have some action with the thieves' guild. I'm not quite sure about the fighter yet, but probably he'll do some activities with perhaps the city officials and/or the fighter's guild. Anyways, I have mind-mapped the following "situation". I assume that whatever they'll do, I'll offer them some hooks, shall they not grab them, fine, I'll improvise. 1. The tiefling is presented with her "rite of passage" from the TG. Steal the pseudodragon kept in a cage (it's one of the zoo keeper's exotic animals.. 2. The city officials/fighter's guild present the fighter with some guarding jobs. One of them is guarding the pseudodragon's near-by vicinity; there has been rumors of the thieves' guilds strike. I shall do the "mission briefing" in private, so they do not know of each other's task and thus reduce metagaming by like a million points. So let's just assume that they will grab the hook. The tiefling wants to join the TG and the fighter needs the extra money (plus perhaps some reputation of being an honorable man). So the tiefling sneaks to the cage and the fighter is guarding the area. poof! The fighter notices some noises/movement, checks it out and "oh-my-god, it is YOU!" This surely puts the fighter to a more or less morally difficult situation. On one hand, he is a man of honor (he is, really) and couldn't lie to his supervisors (thus letting the tiefling steal the pseudodragon). Also, failing in this task will put him in great danger. On the other hand, the fighter does know the tiefling for a long long time already and ratting out his "friend" isn't really the nicest thing to do. Is this sort of "DMing"...eeeeeeevil? I personally like this idea, "giving the ball to the players", though this situation presented here might make me, oh, so cruel. Any opinions?? PS. If this were to happen, I personally do believe the fighter would eventually "arrest" the tiefling and give him to the officials. Of course, this sort of theft is punishable with like...whatever years in the prison, probably getting this tiefling character effectively out of the game. Then again, I could RP the court, a probable escape plan or what-not.
Dragonsblood 09-03-07, 02:18 PM	Great idea...if you want to split up the party and end your campaign. As a DM you should be trying to reinforce party unity, not trying to destroy it. Are your players OK with you pitting their PCs up against each other? I wouldn't have fun in such a game.
robot flux 09-03-07, 02:37 PM	Great idea...if you want to split up the party and end your campaign. As a DM you should be trying to reinforce party unity, not trying to destroy it. Are your players OK with you pitting their PCs up against each other? I wouldn't have fun in such a game. Point taken. Thank you.
Nephlite 09-03-07, 02:41 PM	1. The tiefling is presented with her "rite of passage" from the TG. Steal the pseudodragon kept in a cage (it's one of the zoo keeper's exotic animals.. Only job? 2. The city officials/fighter's guild present the fighter with some guarding jobs. One of them is guarding the pseudodragon's near-by vicinity; there has been rumors of the thieves' guilds strike. [/quote] It would be good to have other decent jobs as well. Or it sounds you are trying to get them to fight and not like each other. Is this sort of "DMing"...eeeeeeevil? I personally like this idea, "giving the ball to the players", though this situation presented here might make me, oh, so cruel. Any opinions?? [/quote It is rather cruel. [quote] PS. If this were to happen, I personally do believe the fighter would eventually "arrest" the tiefling and give him to the officials. Of course, this sort of theft is punishable with like...whatever years in the prison, probably getting this tiefling character effectively out of the game. Then again, I could RP the court, a probable escape plan or what-not. The problem is The party will have less trust and will not like each other more east those two).
Fsi-Dib 09-03-07, 02:41 PM	This scheme is ... immensely brilliant! I personally love a scheme like this, and wouldn't mind losing my character if I were to play either of the participants. This situation is the place to do all the role-playing D&D has ever seen. I encourage to initiate this plan outright. Furthermore, I don't see anything in this that might end the campaign; quite the reverse. If for some reason the tiefling would get captured and arrested for a long time, the player could make a new character (without a loss of level of course, after all the removal of his/her character was strongly RPG-like and didn't depend on his/her decisions). Also, the captured tiefling could come back as a major villain and try to revenge. That'd be awesome. Additionally ... Considering that we apparently are living in the same country, it might make different things appealing. In the games I run the players (as well as myself) love intrigue inside the party, connections and cunning plans, and most of all, surprises. If you keep the missions secret from other players not involved, it gets better.
Dazzer 09-03-07, 02:55 PM	If it happens at night, make sure to use all lighting rules. What I mean is, a tiefling has darkvision 60ft, so he can see in black and white out to that. Anything else requires light; usually a torch or light spell, is 20ft visual, 20ft shadowy, you know something's there but not quite what. Why do I say this? To make it creepy, and interesting. It'd be boring if the fighter went.... Hey look a tiefling, oh my god it's you...etc.. It might be interesting, and play a little into the tieflings advantage if the following happens... "Rogue, give me a spot check...in black and white, you notice your friend is guarding the dragon, do you choose to continue? The thieves guild is counting on you..." If yes, continue Fighter give me a spot check. DC = Tieflings hide, so he likely will never succeed. When the tiefling gets to the cage, unless he has concealment (lighting rules may provide this) or cover, he can't hide, so fighter will see him. However, he may take a penalty, or auto-fail if the dragon makes noise. The fighter wouldn't recognize him immediately though. He'd see "A shadowy figure dressed in...*describe basic tiefling gear, do not describe details...a dark cloak, light vest, etc...*, right at the base of the dragons cage, it seems to be making slight movements, trying to calm the dragon and doing something to the cage...mayhaps...opening it?" Just remember, if the tiefling is good at what he does. The fighter doesn't stand a chance. To save his friend trouble, he might try and knock him out with some kind of wand, poison, or sneak-subdue. He might just succeed at all his hide checks vs. fighter sucky spot. etc...
Fsi-Dib 09-03-07, 02:58 PM	To continue Dazzer ... The tiefling might succeed without the fighter ever knowing it was stolen or it was the tiefling ... thus ruining the fighter's chances to be in the fighter's guild (until next time). I can already imagine tiefling's sweat drops when the fighter elaborates how he'll mutilate the thief. :D
1red13 09-03-07, 03:43 PM	You really have to have the pulse of your group in this matter. Some groups thrive on these plots others find it unneccasirly player competitive when they are more cooperative in nature. You may find that either party may subtely metagame to get the result they deem most appropriate. Possibly having one or both players underplaying their characters abilities so in their perception they don't screw over the opposite player. Another outcome could be an event that triggers an escalating competitive contest in the future. Then there is also the possibility that both players like it, either way it would be a good idea to have a handle on what your players like.
Sol_Aedh_Avoth 09-03-07, 05:56 PM	Is this sort of "DMing"...eeeeeeevil? I always find fun in this sort of things... Time ago a DM made the party split in 4 groups (we were 6 players), gave me an Evil Intelligent Sword (Artifact) while I was alone (I was a LE Fighter), and made a Devil posses the Tiefling who was in another group... The Devil wanted the Sword (since it had been made by an Ancient Wizard for the Devils... LE, indeed), so when would have I met the Tiefling again (everyone was on the road to reunite with the others), one of us should have died... Unfortunately, the campaign ended before we met... (Maybe I was looking forward to fighting because I knew I would have won with a 99% chance... :D )
yellowdingo 09-04-07, 10:23 AM	Of Course you could go the MR. BROOKS path... Kail the Paladin: "Lord Pelor, I have sinned. This evening I thought about Killing a man just for the pleasure of it. I know it has been thirty years since I sought redemption for my dark and evil past, but I find the emotions and desires returning and I am afraid." Thorn (Alternate Personality): "Well thats a lie! It never left..." Kail the Paladin: <Gives Thorn a sour look> Thorn (Alternate Personality): "Kail...You know that even now you want to burn this church to the ground and violate and slaughter the Priests." Kail the Paladin: <Whispers to self> "Not now Thorn." Thorn (Alternate Personality): "Oh Come on! Are you telling me you dont want to cleave the high priest down the middle?" <makes Gesture involving back of the attendant High Priest> Kail the Paladin: <Grips Holy Sword> "Go away Thorn." Thorn (Alternate Personality): "I'm just saying that if you keep up with this silly lie, you're just going to injure yourself. Be true to who you are." Kail the Redeemed goes on terrible killing spree and slaughters the entire temple, defiling the Priests and burning the building to the ground. Kail the Paladin: "You happy? See what you made me do. Now I need a new church." Thorn (Alternate Personality): "Maybe Ehlonna? She has some hot Priestesses..." Kail the Paladin: "That she does." <Both Kail and Thorn walk off laughing...>
Gedrin 09-04-07, 04:47 PM	I think you need another option. The honorable warrior probably should...well no probably, he SHOULD turn in the theif. After all, the theif has already hinted that he's looking for bigger crimes as part of the local organized crime elements. Of course the thief's success jepardizes the fighter's success. He'd be embarassed at best. Possibly even implicated in the crime if it comes out that "the tiefling you entered town with is the one responsible for the crime". It's not a far cry to see him arrested for being an acomplice. Even after truth magic reveals he's innocent, he'd be drummed out of the guard for incompetence. However... What if the rogue is about to steal the pseudodragon, and the fighter is about to stop him, when a third party...a theif not sanctioned by the local guild...swoops in and makes off with the prize? The party members can then band together to stop the theif. The fighter gets to bring in the criminal and look good. The rogue gets to win points with the guild. They both split the reward for turning in the troublesome cat burglar responsible for a string of small heists. Additionally, instead of having an adversarial relationship between the players, the lawful fighter benefits from his contact in the guild, and the shady rogue benefits in that he can help the guild keep the real psychos off the street (since they tend to provoke crackdowns). Together, they rise through the ranks, bouyed by their success, playing the mutual interests of the guard and guild against the evil elements that would seek to corrupt both, and destroy the city in the process. You have to have a certain setup for your city for this to work. A tacit agreement between the forces of law and order, and the guilds is reqired. The guard keeps the daylight and ensures that the city is prosperous enough that there is some "fat" for the guild to feed on. The guild, in turn, doesn't take too much, is careful in who it targets, and does it's part to regulate those who refuse to live in the law or as part of the city's "arrangement".