Post/Author/DateTime	Post
smrtgmp 07-29-04, 05:42 AM	No, its not Princess Leia in the gold bikini. ;) My girlfriend actually said she wanted to try and play D&D, so needless to say, I'm a bit excited. I'd really like to do my best to make the game enjoyable for her, so I'm kind of catering to her. It will be a solo campaign, so its not like this extra attention will harm others (such as it might if she was to join one of my regular sessions). So, here's my question. Does anyone have any advice on easing a newbie into the game? I havent really taught the game to anyone since I taught myself all those years ago, but I'm sure she doesnt want to spend hours on end pouring over musty old tomes. I figured I would teach her the basics and we could build from there, but I was hoping some of you out there have had a similar experience and could share some of the tactics you employed. All help is much appreciated. :) With a bit of luck, I might actually end up with a gamer girl! Yeah! :D
Revelation 07-29-04, 05:59 AM	Teach by playing, help her make up a simple character, explain toi her as you go the options. Don't push her into what you view as effective feats or skills, let her pick them and suit your game to them. The start playing. It'll accentuate role playing, which many women gamers perfer, over number crunching. Tak it from there and let her learn as she goes.
Bait the Bard 07-29-04, 06:37 AM	I've found a good way for entering newbies into a campaign is throw them straight into the action, and let them get into the rolling. This gets them involved, and as the combat situation evolves, you can say things like "Ok, see the number? It does.." and slowly introduce new rules. As Revaltion said, the (few) girls I have played with usually prefer role-playing, so allow a fair bit of that. If she is in a group of ther guys, it might be more dificult to introduce more role-playing, but she will (hopefully) thank you for it. Another tactic which has worked for me is to burn a copy of a game like Icewind Dale 2, and let them play it, but unless she's into computer games it might not work very well. Hope that helps - the annoying bard
Hochi-min trail 07-29-04, 08:44 AM	i recently started DM'ng for a girll in a solo campaighn, being her first experience in the D&Dm world. she took a very steriotype character (elf druid), which i said nothing about, and began playing. i began the game slowly, letting her explore the world around. i gave her a direction at first, with a storyline, but after a couple of weeks i eliminated that and gave her a free hand at deciding wherever she wants to go and whatever she wants to do. i try and give an equal amount of role-playing and fighting, and give her helping NPC's on the way, changing every few sessions. i'm only now (two months later), am trying to add people to make a group.
Phrennzy 07-29-04, 10:39 AM	My boyfriend recently just started playing with us. I didn't realize how confusing it can be to play as a newbie in a group that has been playing for years. We would bark out directions to each other using all the different rules and it just overwhelmed my boyfriend. Thankfully, he explained all of this after the game - he felt very frustrated because he didn't fully grasp what was going on, and so he was quiet and confused on what to do when it was his turn. So the next time we played i made sure to explain everything the best I could. Be prepared for certain surprises: My guy didn't know how the percentile dice worked. He had never really seen dice other than 6 sided. So he was rolling the d12 to hit. :rofl: I did my best to explain things to him. But its hard when the whole group is there. So we are going to do some small combats with his character. He chose to play a mage, which is not a very good choice for a first time player - IMO a fighter would be better just to learn the combat system without worrying about spells. I have desgined a little dungeon with areas where he will need to jump, balance, swim, climb, fight, and fight with range. All against goblin/kobolds/skeletons. Keeping the CR low will make it an enjoyable expereince, and a learning one at that. Probably a learning a exepreince for both of us.
coolraygun 07-29-04, 11:30 AM	When my wife expressed interest in learning how to play I started her off on a one on one game. I ran her through the D&D adventure game box set, that come out in like 2000. Got her used to the dice, and the general flow of the game. Then she wanted to make an elf rogue character, and I ran her through Sunless Citadel, which I scaled down and changed a bit to handle a single player game. She was kind of luke warm about the whole experience. When I decided to run a campaign for a group she said she "might play", and to that end she roled up another elf rogue. The first night we all got together she just wanted to watch, and after 10 minutes she wanted in. I as the DM informed the more experienced players that she was a newb, and to please help out with explaining rules, and dice as we went along. I also told them to feel free to make a few out of character suggestions to her, but not to go overboard. I also told her to consider their suggestions, but to make up her own mind about what she wanted to do. After the first game she told me how much more fun it was to play with a group as opposed to one on one, and it was actually more fun than she thought it was. Now she very much looks forward to our bi-weekly gaming sessions, and is really getting into it. She still struggles a bit with the rules, and remember what die to use, and she is still working on her role playing, but she is coming along nicely. All it takes is some patience on behalf of the DM, and the rest of the group. Though I have heard that most girls prefer the role playing aspect of the game, my experience has been split in half. Over the years I have played in regular games with 5 different girls, 1 which was really into the role playing side of it, another which was more into the hack n slash, 1 that never really could get into the game at all, and 2 that preferred a balance of role playing to combat. My wife falls into the last category. Patience, patience, patience. Dont go for the long game sessions either... keep them short at first. Good Luck
Tytalus 07-29-04, 11:43 AM	This has worked very well for me for introducing newbies so far: - Start small. Create a little adventure that can be solved in one (slow) session. Leave hints/hooks for bigger things, so that you can tie in if she likes it so much that there will be more sessions. I'd start at first level (maybe second), but keep in mind that low level adventurers can accidentally die. - Create choices, that's what being in charge of your character is all about: will she persue the burglar, or will she help the injured victim? Will she steal the unattended necklace, or wait for the shopkeeper to return? Etc, etc. - I highly recommend interactions with NPCs, both helpful and not - this makes a small town a good starting point, maybe even a city. The reason is simply that it gives the newbie something that's at least somewhat familiar. - For similar reasons, I'd not use exotic monsters - or many monsters at all. Everything else can be confusing at first. - Make sure she is the main person of the session. Be careful with overshadowing her with a DM PC (probably wouldn't use one), as you can likely build a more effective character than her. Also, try to create situations where she can use her strength (skills, spells, special abilities - what have ya). As a preparation for (later) playing in groups, show her that she is good at some things, but needs help with others. - As coolraygun above I would also only have her play a single session one-on-one, then introduce her to a (good) group of understanding players. Good luck.
Cymraegmorgan 07-29-04, 11:55 AM	Do not make the mistake thinking a woman will not dive into the rulebooks and never come out. I've seen it for years. So long as you are patient with questions, a new player, man or woman, tends to get mesmerized by the wealth of information in the books, and the great art. The lady who plays the Paladin in my current group is the tactician of the party because she loves combat. She not only loves the combat, she is good at it and at directing the others. Starting solo is a good idea, to see if she likes the game, but I do that with all new players, regardless of gender.
PenderGrass 07-29-04, 05:38 PM	Since I have never had a positive experience gaming with people that had their "significant other" gaming at the same table, all I can give you as advice are things you should NOT do (maybe they will help you?): 1. Don't favor the person, make excuses for them or whatever. D&D can be a cutthroat game of centimeters - if she dies, she should die. Damn, the times I have seen this happens just makes me sick. 2. Keep your 'lovey dovey' hands to yourselves - even better sit as far apart as possible. This is D&D, not the freaking Spice Channel. 3. As above #1, get someone ELSE to help her out. You are The DM, the other Players should be the ones helping her - not you. Your job is to kill her PC and her new compatriot PCs. 4. Don't let her play unless she totally understands that her PC will die..... over and over if you have your way. 5. did I mention no favors, no kissing, and no non-game issues? Non-game issues are who is gonna do the dishes or clean the floor. Non-game issues would be preventing 'guy humor' from happening and so on. Follow these and you might stand a better chance of not becoming the typical, horrible gaming couple that I have always seen. Good luck.:behold:
Arrowhen 07-29-04, 06:19 PM	Your job is to kill her PC and her new compatriot PCs. Huh. I thought it was to provide them with an interesting world to play in, filled with memorable characters to interact with and exciting challenges to overcome.
PenderGrass 07-29-04, 06:24 PM	Huh. I thought it was to provide them with an interesting world to play in, filled with memorable characters to interact with and exciting challenges to overcome. Sure, sure.... The Ad Officially reads: Create cool PCs, visit interesting worlds, meet memorable characters and overcome exciting challenges THEN DIE LIKE THE PLAYER PC SCUM YOU ARE!!!!! :behold:
von Szass 07-29-04, 06:30 PM	Will die or might die? It's your job as DM to entertain the players, not letting them roll chars over and over again. Edit: Which Ad is that?
Evandar_TAybara 07-29-04, 06:50 PM	...burn a copy of a game like Icewind Dale 2...:nonono:
Arrowhen 07-29-04, 07:13 PM	I dunno, I guess I just like it when the good guys win. Even if those good guys are the PCs.
Sildatorak 07-29-04, 07:34 PM	I have to say that my ex-girlfriend (the ex- part has nothing to do with D&D) was reading through my PHB once, seemed keen on the game, and then I decided to try to explain it to her on a plane ride to New Hampshire. Not a good idea. Completely bored her, and we never really talked about her playing again. It probably had more to do with the fact that we go to different colleges so we had better things to do than game when we got a chance to see each other. My point is teach her when you've got dice and rule books on hand, ideally when you can play. If you bore her with long-winded rules jibber-jabber, then you'll probably turn her right off of it.
Nom 07-29-04, 11:21 PM	My wife loves role-playing, but gets bored very quickly with miniatures wargaming. That said, she loves RoboRally, mainly because of the opportunities to thwart other players I think. My #1 piece of advice is: "use the rules to support the game, not be the game". This applies to all new players, but (as a generalisation) doubly so to women. Tell new players stories about how you made your way across the fiery chasm, sweet talked the bugbear king, rescued the captive merchant, sneaked out a back way and then slayed the hunters the bugbears sent after you, all the while carrying on an argument with the wizard about the which tavern makes the best mead. That's interesting. A story about how you rolled 2 20s followed by a 1 makes no sense to a non-gamer.
SnowbearK 07-30-04, 01:00 AM	damnit...not much else I can add. More or less everything's been said already, even the no no about software piracy -- with the exception of Pendergrass, who's advice I'd take with a salt mine rather than just a grain, save for the advice that it be kept about the game, not the relationship. Although there is one thing worse than a newbie gamer-SigO (Significant Other), and thats a gamer-SigO who's been taught the wrong things. When I first met my wife, she'd been playing for about a year under a DM who's only saving grace was that he had the time to game. Yeah, that's it. From uber-DMPC to nonsensical houserulings that changed moment to moment to PC-favoritism to grudge-fudging of dice to dictating PC actions. This guy could be the Poster Child for a movement to test people before letting them sit behind the Screen. And worse, he'd been DMing since 1978. So I broke out Inheritance (a Dungeon Mag adventure) and Return to the Keep on the Borderlands, tossed her a sheet, and told her to make a character while I was at work. She looked at me blankly...oh yeah, did I mention her characters were given to her by dictation as well? So I tossed her a (2nd Ed) PHB and headed out the door. When I got back, she'd had a nice 1st level fighter rolled up. Great. I asked her who Ms. Crystalfire was. I got back "first level fighter, 6'0", wears..." I had her create a history and then away we went. I laid it out for her that I would not be fudging, I would not be showing her character any favoritism (even though it was a one-on-one game) nor would I be going easy on her. I did give her some pre-game advice, which after my rambling actually DOES apply to the topic at hand: Don't just listen to the DM, hear what he's said about something. If you didn't hear something, or you want to know something that wasn't said, ask a question. Use your head. Given the character's abilities, figure out what you're weak areas are (in her case, she could look forward to healing issues, death without resurrection, and dealing with magic), once you've got those figured out, pay attention to the situation and keep yourself out of those that play on your weaknesses. Ie, be careful. And finally, make friends. Allies are good no matter what size your group is. Just keep an eye on your back, lest it spontaneously sprout a hilt or two. Now, in my experience -- I've played with 22 female gamers in that experience -- female gamers tend to enjoy the role-playing aspect much more than the hack-n-slash aspect of D&D. Good stories, rich backgrounds, and "real" NPCs will go VERY far in capturing their imagination and hooking them for life. Most male gamers I've known (100+) are happy just getting together for a good time in a beer-n-pretzels manner, enacting violence upon imaginary foes and becoming heroes of renown -- though they are often ecstatic about a good story, rich background, and real NPCs also. But as with all experiences, your mileage may vary. (and in case anyone is wondering, Ms. Crystalfire, now Lady Crystalfire, Knight-Associate of Waterdeep, is doing fine and dandy in the same keep from Inheritance with her Hobgoblin Thief henchman earned from the same adventure and has cleared out the Caves of Chaos, returned peace to the Keep on the Borderlands, survived a brief excursion into the lands of Ravenloft, and managed to free Kryptgarden Forest from the clutches of an Old Green Dragon -- all but the Ravenloft adventure were one-on-one games)
smrtgmp 07-30-04, 01:31 AM	Thanks everyone. There is some really good advice in there. I was planning on running a low level solo campaign so that I can ease her into the game without too much confusion. As for me pulling my punches, you dont have to worry about that. ;) I'd like to get her prepared for a real game, so I dont want her expecting any favors. And besides, the game is no fun when it isnt challeging. Thanks again. With the exception of one angry poster, I got nothing but good advice. :D
Iddig Ap Nil 07-30-04, 02:06 AM	I can't add too much that hasn't already been said. That being said, I prett ymuch agree with what everyone has said, even PenderGrass. I've run games with my girlfriend-to-be (and now, girlfriend of 2 years). I even introduced her to gaming. I have run with other couples in the game, and have played in games with my GF. In my experience it has been mostly good, but there have been those much like Pender mentioned...And nothing can be anymore bogus then that. Make sure, as has been stated, that she isn't coddled (or anyone else, for that matter). But also, make sure you're not treating her any more harshly then the others either. It's a very fine line to walk...One of the good things about having an SO playing under you while you game, is that they can help you to carry your books in (Or, go pick up the snacks, even!) Now, I have an adventure to start working on...
Pongolyn 07-30-04, 03:13 AM	This is one of those few situations where it's actually a good idea to run a DMPC. She can learn by your example, and there's no one else around to complain that you guys get all the good stuff.
committed hero 07-30-04, 10:34 PM	If there is something the newbie wants his character to do (say he put ranks in a skill or chose a certain feat) make sure there comes a time relatively soon when he can do it.
kclawhammer 08-01-04, 01:53 AM	if she is into computer games, I recommend letting her borrow your copy of Icewind Dale. I had played Baldur's Gate before I started playing real DnD and it really helped. I already had a general basis on how spells worked (my first char was a mage), what I need to be doing, etc. however, there is a pitfall: I was a horrible roll-player, largely due to the lack of RP'ing in that game. My DM told me to convince the other characters why I should travel with them. oh, the horrid stories I wove.... :rolleyes: but back to the point: games can help a great deal with the mechanics, but are no excuse for good coaching.
Lord_Soto 08-01-04, 06:27 AM	I found that when I introduced my wife to the game, what worked really well was to start as simply as possible, and build up. We skipped character creation, skipped rules, and went straight to the basics. I introduced her to the idea of a character but none of the rules associated with it. I started by setting a scene. I explained to her what was going on around her. I asked her to describe herself and what she was like (basically, looking for something to base stats on). Then I asked her what she would like to do to interact with this scene. After she had time to get comfortable with this, then I brought out dice. Anytime she wanted to do something that required a roll, I explained to her the dice and why she was rolling. Once she was comfortable with this, we started talking about character classes. She decided to play a human wizard (Conjuration/Summoning specialist), and so we then rolled up her character. She really enjoyed chosing her starting equipment and filling in details about her garb and appearance. She did need some prompting for appropriate history (we play in FR, she didn't know any town names and such). Then we played a solo-session that led up to where my next planned campaign was going to start. She then played in that campaign (where she did surprisingly well at fitting in with my experienced RP-er's) until she decided that playing D&D took too long and she had other things she'd rather do with 6 hrs on a Saturday afternoon. Good luck.
memberZ 08-01-04, 08:55 PM	I have played solo and 2 person groups with newbies: females and male ....young and older Most want the cool character that rarely does well by themselves. As Pongolyn said it's DMpc time. I bring in a dumb or nieve ubertank. I let the the newbie run the show and do ANYTHING they want with their character. The tank is just there as a sheild and if the newbie is totally stumped as to what to do next. The tank has a glimpse of coherent thought and gives an idea or two. Don't worry about them knowing the rules ,just walk them through things as they pop up. After the session mention the things that poped up and explain or better yet show them where the rule is in the book and let them grasp it all by themselves. Also it's better to introduce new players to their group then to throw them in the tank with the big sharks. If all goes well in a few weeks they will shock you and bring up a DnD rule out of context as your walking down the street."hey what would i need to roll to tumble over that downed tree" When that happens smile and say "do you have inititive?" and laugh together.
Veldan Rath 08-01-04, 09:49 PM	Har, its been a while scince I've seen yer posts funny as always:D
Kheti sa-Menik 08-01-04, 11:07 PM	Originally posted by Sildatorak <snip> It probably had more to do with the fact that we go to different colleges so we had better things to do than game when we got a chance to see each other. <snip> :uh-huh: not possible /hehehe
D+1 08-03-04, 07:20 PM	Originally posted by smrtgmp I havent really taught the game to anyone since I taught myself all those years ago, but I'm sure she doesnt want to spend hours on end pouring over musty old tomes.I don't want to stress this too hard, but there is no substitute for, and absolutely NO GOOD REASON NOT to REQUIRE the reading of the PH as the BARE MINIMUM for playing D&D. Basically, this game involves reading. The more you get into it the more reading is required. Learn it. Know it. Live it.I figured I would teach her the basics and we could build from there, but I was hoping some of you out there have had a similar experience and could share some of the tactics you employed.I'd just repeat what others have been saying. Start small - smallish village as a base and the first several adventures should be ones that can be completed in one session. Don't stress the roleplaying - stress the game mechanics; run a lot of combat in different situtations. The Roleplaying will take care of itself as the game progresses. Besides, roleplaying is easier if you don't have to stop in the middle of what you're doing in the game to explain or slowly work out combat rolls, skill checks, or the detailed workings of a given spell. That doesn't mean that roleplaying should not be encouraged, just that when you're TEACHING the game, it is the mechanics, the basics that need to be dealt with first and foremost. That also means keep it to the PH. "Less is more." Don't flood her with options for non-standard races and classes. Don't even bother to tell her about Prestige Classes. She needs to get a handle on what classes ARE, and what core classes are available before trying to introduce her to fancy-schmancy concepts like PrC's. An example of a good way to approach it is to provide in-game reasons for the combats beyond thoughtless accumulation of wealth and power. You don't go kill the orcs just because you can then loot their corpses of loose change - you do it because they attacked the village, kidnapped the mayors wife, or stole the Sacred Thingamajig. Beyond that just play it by ear. Start to explore other aspects of the game as time goes along and she has a better grasp of the essentials. Probably best to start with a non-spellcaster for a PC to minimize the amount of information needed to master to get up to speed. But, after a while you'll want to suggest that she roll up a new character and give a spellcasting class a try. Even if she refuses to ever play anything but a straight-up fighter she will need to get a handle on how magic works in the game and there really is no substitute for doing that except PLAYING a spellcaster.
D+1 08-03-04, 07:30 PM	double post
Spiderbait 08-03-04, 07:41 PM	My fiance and I used to play DnD together with the regular group several years ago, I still play, but she's showed an interest in starting up again.
D+1 08-03-04, 07:44 PM	Originally posted by kclawhammer but back to the point: games can help a great deal with the mechanics, but are no excuse for good coaching. I have to strongly disagree there. Computer games are HORRIBLE for learning to play D&D. They do their darndest to make the actual mechanics of the game as invisible as possible. Good for a computer game, bad for actual D&D. Playing D&D at a table with others requires a working knowledge of those rules: What ALL the rules are, when they can apply, should apply, do not apply etc. For example, if you select "Point Blank Shot" in a D&D computer game, that bonus is automatically added in to your attacks. As a player in that game you NEVER AGAIN see it actively being used. In a table-top game as a player YOU must actively add in that bonus each and every time you fire your weapon while remembering NOT to add it in if the range is greater than 30'. Computerization of the rules is a horrible CRUTCH that is doing a new player no real favors. Play computer games for playing a COMPUTER GAME. If you want to really play D&D then you need to sit around a table somewhere with others to do it. In addition, though I have no first-hand experience with Icewind Dale, computer games DO make adjustments to the rules to better accomodate the fact that you ARE playing on a computer. So, in at least a few cases the rules that you may THINK you know from learning a computer game will not be correct when playing FTF. Additionally, some game rules are FAR less useful in a computer game while being far MORE useful in FTF roleplaying of a character off a DM's monsters and NPC's. The fun and efficient ways to play a computer game are not necessarily the ways to play a live, FTF game of D&D.
Aramil_silverwind 08-04-04, 03:31 PM	Heres what I did in a similar situation - my girlfriend wanted to try D&D, do I set up a tutorial type thing. To get her used to the game mechanics. First I let her amke a character. She chose a class that she liked (Druid) and I slowly took her through the character creation process, showing her how everythign worked and what each skill, abiity, and saving throw did. Once that was done, I gave her a one-on-one combat with a goblin on a terrainless battle grid. I showed her every possible action you can do in combat, making sure that she knew what everything did (of course I gave the goblin infinate HP until she was ready to make her own decisions). Once she defeated the goblin (with a brilliant Summon Natures Ally spell to get a poinsonous snake that did CON damage) I set her up against a single Orc, letting her have complete control of everything this time, as she had already learned the combat system. Once that was done, and she understood the system, I put her through a one-shot adventure while adding a Fighter, a Monk, and a Bard each at level 1, just like her. I played those 3 NPCs as well as the monsters, which taught her to co-ordinate her tactics with the other PCs. This whole process took the better part of a weekend, and we hadn't even got into the roleplay aspect of D&D yet. Sure, its taken a long time, but by the time this is done, we both will know the system a whole lot better. If you have the time for this, I highly reccomend this way of doing things... but only if you have the time.
StormKnight 08-04-04, 06:25 PM	I don't want to stress this too hard, but there is no substitute for, and absolutely NO GOOD REASON NOT to REQUIRE the reading of the PH as the BARE MINIMUM for playing D&D. Basically, this game involves reading. The more you get into it the more reading is required. Learn it. Know it. Live it. Phesh. I've played tons upon tons of RPGs with players who have barely looked inside a book. Its not neccessary, its not critical, and its overwhelming to many new players. As long as the GM knows the rules and the players are willing to learn by playing, everything should be fine. Once they are really into the game and want to understand the details, then they can go read the players book. As to the original poster. The best approach to take will depend very strongly on her interests. Is she a competitive person? If she is competitive, and enjoys regular games or sports, you may want to emphasize the challenge aspect. Play up the game part, and give her a chance to overcome and defeat foes. Does she like acting and fantasy and isn't as into games? Then downplay the mechanics. You might want to run an intro to help get her into what the world is like BEFORE SHE EVEN MAKES A CHARACTER. Yup, no rules, no sheets, just a fun roleplaying situation to get her interested and give her an idea of what she wants the character to be like before she makes it. Think about what kind of movies and books she likes. Is there a certain style she enjoys? Does she like mystery? Romance? Action? Try to play to a style that is going to interest her. Try to make character creation as easy and painless as possible. You could get an idea of what sort of character she would like and do the details yourself. If she likes the game, then let her go change things around as she sees fit. But if you do this, or if you make a character for her, be SURE you make it a character that will interest her. Good luck and have fun!
Occams_Razor 08-08-04, 05:20 AM	I'd like to second StormKnight on the point of catering a bit to what she likes. I've never taught a significant other to play, just never thought they'd get into it, though my current girlfriend gave me a stern talking to when I said something along those lines regardinga sci-fi show I love and watch a lot when she isn't around, so I might invite her to paly... anyway, sorry, got distracted, my point was that the one girl have played with was learning to play with a brand new DM and I was essentially the only person in the group who knew anything about the game. In the end, it was that she was hanging with friends and overcoming things that gave her a sense of gratification, that's the key, the player needs to feel that they are accomplishing something. Good luck, amigo.
Klünder 08-08-04, 06:12 AM	Mmmm, met my wife during gaming and she's the best damn GM I know. Never have trouble with favoritism or anything like that when we game. Hell, when we're both players, our characters usually end up disliking each other. *G*