A new Dm needs advice... [Archive] - Wizards Community

A new Dm needs advice... [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Slobad_the_rogue
02-04-07, 05:18 PM First of all, I would like to say that I'm a rather new DM.
In my 3 PC campaign, one of my characters is a fighter with a lot of AC and hp (a tank you might say).
The other a REALLY frail wizard
and the last an average rogue.

I basicly want to know if at about what intel do you make monsters attack the caster/rogue instead of the guy with 25-30 AC?
should I throw monsters with really high attack bonuses so they can hit the fighter?
Or should I let the fighter have fun by seeing all of the monsters miss?

Lastly, as you can see my party has no healer (except rogue with UMD later on) so should my encounters be easier???

Thanking you for your time,
Slobad the rogue
Xavorin
02-04-07, 05:27 PM I don't really know what intelligence level is required for monsters to know who is easiest to hit. You'd have to call on your own judgment for that, I think.

I also think that you deffinitely should make your encounters a bit easier, since there's only three PCs and no healer.

This is a hard situation. Try giving encounters that play to the PCs strengths usually, so that they aren't too hard-pressed to keep alive. Of course, you always want to challenge them some, but not to the point that they can't survive.

Of course, the Fighter could always multi-class to Dragon Shaman to get the Vigor aura, so that if the party's in trouble, the fast-healing will kick in. (Vigor gives fast healing to every friendly person or something equal to I think 2 x the aura bonus. However, it only kicks in on someone when they're down to half health or less.

The Rogue or the Fighter might take a level or two of Cleric, to get the healing abilities.

You've been dealt a tough set of cards. If all else fails, have the Fighter switch to Cleric altogether since Clerics can sort of tank, and they get healing.

Just my two-cents.
ZombieDragon
02-04-07, 05:34 PM With 3 players a cleric tank is the better way to go. A little buff'ing and they can out tank a fighter.

I usually play it off as 'ouch that really hurt' The guy hurting the dumb bestie the most is the prime target. Around 8 would get a 'he is tastier and i don't need a can opener'. Over 10 and it's stay way from the brute and eat his tasty frail friends.
JGFLA
02-04-07, 06:02 PM How about adding a Cleric NPC for hire or for a cause, and/or allow the small group of players to play more then 1 character?

That may keep the frail wizard from being attacked every 3rd fight, and will allow you to throw what you want at the party. Be careful though... too many characters can slow down the game.

Good luck.
Morits
02-04-07, 06:15 PM Do you really want to build a World to suit the PCS' convenience?

On the other hand, it is fitting to build each Dungeon to suit the PC's level.

Monster Manual defines Encounter Level assuming a Party of 4 PCs with the given experience level. Each Encounter Level includes both Intelligent Monsters and stupid monsters with bigger teeth.

Players' Handbook includes prices for healing potions and healing mercenaries.

If they all die in Session 1, then they roll new characters. They might chose to roll a more balanced Party next time.
PwnageLlama
02-04-07, 11:26 PM Free potions of Minor Cure!
Archmage Atrus
02-04-07, 11:30 PM First off - how high is high?

If it's a 1st level game, a "high" AC is in the high teens or low 20s - and that's just great. (Low hit points require the creatures to miss and miss often.)

In higher level games, it starts to even out.

As to what "intelligence" - I say anything above 3 is smart enough to use some amount of tactical ability beyond "that guy hurt me, I'm going to hurt him back". Anything above a 6 is intelligent enough to know "huh, I can't seem to hit this guy, I'm going to try someone else."

*Always* play your NPCs/creatures intelligently (IE, to their intelligence.) It encourages intelligent thinking from your PCs, and that makes for a better game.
SmithyW
02-05-07, 12:52 AM As for intelligence vs tatics, that is a tough one. Animals and vermin usually flee or attack whoever is provoking them, not going for strategy or even recognizing that they can't get past a fighter's armor (after a few good lumps to the animal, they'll probably just run away). Once you get around a 6 Int, you can start to inject *some* sense into your npc's/monsters for things like flanking or avoiding attacks of opportunity. About a 12 Int creature can come up with "good ideas" for how to recoginize real threats (like spellcasters) and overcome them (readying ranged attacks to disrupt spells, disarming wands or sundering weapons and holy symbols). Int 16 and up and you start getting into your 'brilliant planner' type npc's, that might even go so far as to scout out a party of PC's before engaging them. Also, one or two of the "smarter" npc's in a group could command underlings while staying in the back to assess combat and issue orders. A hoard of goblins can surround a heavily armored fighter and use the aid another action to have one gob overcome their high ac (there are lots of other tactics, too (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/tt/20050314a)). You can also pick up clues as to a monster's combat style from their description, like the way kobolds favor traps and ambushes.

As far as the difficulty of your encounters, it's true the EL system was set up for 4 PC's, so I like to use the d20 srd's encounter calculator for odd numbers of PC's. http://www.d20srd.org/encounterCalculator.htm
Don't force your PC's to take levels in classes they don't want to, just to make running game easier. The lack of a healer doesn't thwart a party's ability to overcome encounters, but it does limit the amount of time they'll spend inside the dungeon, especially at lower levels. Have your encounters close to "home" where they can retreat and recover eaisly. They'll probably be stocking up on potions of cure light wounds or paying NPC spellcasters for healing quite a bit at first. Hiring a cleric to accompany them would also be an option, I usually have my NPC's charge the same amounts in chapter 7 of the phb for any spells cast during an adventure, plus a half-share of the treasure if they're not expected to fight or a full-share of treasure (and xp!) if they are expected to fight with the party. Even if they don't hire anyone to follow along behind them with a wand of CLW, don't worry, they'll work out their own method for healing after an encounter *and* for protecting each other DURING combat. If one of them wants to multiclass to fill the healer role, remember there are lots of classes (Bard, Cleric, Ranger, Paladin, Druid, Favored Soul, Archivist, etc., etc.) that can use a wand of CLW regardless of whether or not the character can cast the spell yet.
Slobad_the_rogue
02-05-07, 08:23 AM thanks a lot, that helps very much, I think i will make one of them take leadership next level for a cleric cohort (as you guessed, they are level 5...). Just another question... what treasure does a cohort get? does he get XP? How strong is he?
Merestil Haye
02-05-07, 08:44 AM thanks a lot, that helps very much, I think i will make one of them take leadership next level for a cleric cohort (as you guessed, they are level 5...). Just another question... what treasure does a cohort get? does he get XP? How strong is he?Don't make the PC take a feat if the player wants something else.

Suggesting it is a great idea, especially if they don't read much of the DMG, but forcing it may alienate the player who does take it from the character. The player may not want to deal with hordes of followers.

As for how strong the cohort is, consult the tables. Determine the character's Leadership score. The character can attract a Cohort of up to the listed Effective Character Level (ECL) or his own ECL -2, whichever is higher.

Give some degree of choice about the cohort to the player who takes it.

The cohort earns x/y times his leader's xp award, where x is the cohort's ECL and y is the leader's ECL.

It's up to the party whether they include the cohort in treasure distribution. Anything from 1 full share to the cohort only getting stuff if the leader donates it from his own share is reasonable -depends what the group want.
FntsyWlkr
02-05-07, 01:28 PM My advice:

> Threatening monster with DR: Anybody can hit it, but it'll still keep coming. And it can have average BAB.

> Ambush/team tactics: have about seven smaller creatures ambush. That way you can suit three of them to have high BAB's, and HPs ... and then a few suited to attack the rogue.

> Think around it: creatures that base themselves in disarm, grapple, drains ... basically threaten everyone, without focusing on class.

> drop them a wand of healing: that way they have healing abilities

< NPC Cleric: set up a templer where they have to pay for healing. You could also use this temple to progress the larger plot.
hedgeknight
02-05-07, 03:02 PM Two words: rust monster.
Your "tank" of a fighter needs to meet one or two of the critters in an alley or dungeon corridor and lose some of that AC, you know, bring him down a notch or three to the same EL as your other PCs.

Of course a spellcaster with heat or cool metal spell works well too. ;)

As for healing, you could have a temple or small shrine that provides healing for adventurers who make a "donation" to the church.

Lots of options. Good luck.
-g-

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Slobad_the_rogue 02-04-07, 05:18 PM	First of all, I would like to say that I'm a rather new DM. In my 3 PC campaign, one of my characters is a fighter with a lot of AC and hp (a tank you might say). The other a REALLY frail wizard and the last an average rogue. I basicly want to know if at about what intel do you make monsters attack the caster/rogue instead of the guy with 25-30 AC? should I throw monsters with really high attack bonuses so they can hit the fighter? Or should I let the fighter have fun by seeing all of the monsters miss? Lastly, as you can see my party has no healer (except rogue with UMD later on) so should my encounters be easier??? Thanking you for your time, Slobad the rogue
Xavorin 02-04-07, 05:27 PM	I don't really know what intelligence level is required for monsters to know who is easiest to hit. You'd have to call on your own judgment for that, I think. I also think that you deffinitely should make your encounters a bit easier, since there's only three PCs and no healer. This is a hard situation. Try giving encounters that play to the PCs strengths usually, so that they aren't too hard-pressed to keep alive. Of course, you always want to challenge them some, but not to the point that they can't survive. Of course, the Fighter could always multi-class to Dragon Shaman to get the Vigor aura, so that if the party's in trouble, the fast-healing will kick in. (Vigor gives fast healing to every friendly person or something equal to I think 2 x the aura bonus. However, it only kicks in on someone when they're down to half health or less. The Rogue or the Fighter might take a level or two of Cleric, to get the healing abilities. You've been dealt a tough set of cards. If all else fails, have the Fighter switch to Cleric altogether since Clerics can sort of tank, and they get healing. Just my two-cents.
ZombieDragon 02-04-07, 05:34 PM	With 3 players a cleric tank is the better way to go. A little buff'ing and they can out tank a fighter. I usually play it off as 'ouch that really hurt' The guy hurting the dumb bestie the most is the prime target. Around 8 would get a 'he is tastier and i don't need a can opener'. Over 10 and it's stay way from the brute and eat his tasty frail friends.
JGFLA 02-04-07, 06:02 PM	How about adding a Cleric NPC for hire or for a cause, and/or allow the small group of players to play more then 1 character? That may keep the frail wizard from being attacked every 3rd fight, and will allow you to throw what you want at the party. Be careful though... too many characters can slow down the game. Good luck.
Morits 02-04-07, 06:15 PM	Do you really want to build a World to suit the PCS' convenience? On the other hand, it is fitting to build each Dungeon to suit the PC's level. Monster Manual defines Encounter Level assuming a Party of 4 PCs with the given experience level. Each Encounter Level includes both Intelligent Monsters and stupid monsters with bigger teeth. Players' Handbook includes prices for healing potions and healing mercenaries. If they all die in Session 1, then they roll new characters. They might chose to roll a more balanced Party next time.
PwnageLlama 02-04-07, 11:26 PM	Free potions of Minor Cure!
Archmage Atrus 02-04-07, 11:30 PM	First off - how high is high? If it's a 1st level game, a "high" AC is in the high teens or low 20s - and that's just great. (Low hit points require the creatures to miss and miss often.) In higher level games, it starts to even out. As to what "intelligence" - I say anything above 3 is smart enough to use some amount of tactical ability beyond "that guy hurt me, I'm going to hurt him back". Anything above a 6 is intelligent enough to know "huh, I can't seem to hit this guy, I'm going to try someone else." Always play your NPCs/creatures intelligently (IE, to their intelligence.) It encourages intelligent thinking from your PCs, and that makes for a better game.
SmithyW 02-05-07, 12:52 AM	As for intelligence vs tatics, that is a tough one. Animals and vermin usually flee or attack whoever is provoking them, not going for strategy or even recognizing that they can't get past a fighter's armor (after a few good lumps to the animal, they'll probably just run away). Once you get around a 6 Int, you can start to inject some sense into your npc's/monsters for things like flanking or avoiding attacks of opportunity. About a 12 Int creature can come up with "good ideas" for how to recoginize real threats (like spellcasters) and overcome them (readying ranged attacks to disrupt spells, disarming wands or sundering weapons and holy symbols). Int 16 and up and you start getting into your 'brilliant planner' type npc's, that might even go so far as to scout out a party of PC's before engaging them. Also, one or two of the "smarter" npc's in a group could command underlings while staying in the back to assess combat and issue orders. A hoard of goblins can surround a heavily armored fighter and use the aid another action to have one gob overcome their high ac (there are lots of other tactics, too (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/tt/20050314a)). You can also pick up clues as to a monster's combat style from their description, like the way kobolds favor traps and ambushes. As far as the difficulty of your encounters, it's true the EL system was set up for 4 PC's, so I like to use the d20 srd's encounter calculator for odd numbers of PC's. http://www.d20srd.org/encounterCalculator.htm Don't force your PC's to take levels in classes they don't want to, just to make running game easier. The lack of a healer doesn't thwart a party's ability to overcome encounters, but it does limit the amount of time they'll spend inside the dungeon, especially at lower levels. Have your encounters close to "home" where they can retreat and recover eaisly. They'll probably be stocking up on potions of cure light wounds or paying NPC spellcasters for healing quite a bit at first. Hiring a cleric to accompany them would also be an option, I usually have my NPC's charge the same amounts in chapter 7 of the phb for any spells cast during an adventure, plus a half-share of the treasure if they're not expected to fight or a full-share of treasure (and xp!) if they are expected to fight with the party. Even if they don't hire anyone to follow along behind them with a wand of CLW, don't worry, they'll work out their own method for healing after an encounter and for protecting each other DURING combat. If one of them wants to multiclass to fill the healer role, remember there are lots of classes (Bard, Cleric, Ranger, Paladin, Druid, Favored Soul, Archivist, etc., etc.) that can use a wand of CLW regardless of whether or not the character can cast the spell yet.
Slobad_the_rogue 02-05-07, 08:23 AM	thanks a lot, that helps very much, I think i will make one of them take leadership next level for a cleric cohort (as you guessed, they are level 5...). Just another question... what treasure does a cohort get? does he get XP? How strong is he?
Merestil Haye 02-05-07, 08:44 AM	thanks a lot, that helps very much, I think i will make one of them take leadership next level for a cleric cohort (as you guessed, they are level 5...). Just another question... what treasure does a cohort get? does he get XP? How strong is he?Don't make the PC take a feat if the player wants something else. Suggesting it is a great idea, especially if they don't read much of the DMG, but forcing it may alienate the player who does take it from the character. The player may not want to deal with hordes of followers. As for how strong the cohort is, consult the tables. Determine the character's Leadership score. The character can attract a Cohort of up to the listed Effective Character Level (ECL) or his own ECL -2, whichever is higher. Give some degree of choice about the cohort to the player who takes it. The cohort earns x/y times his leader's xp award, where x is the cohort's ECL and y is the leader's ECL. It's up to the party whether they include the cohort in treasure distribution. Anything from 1 full share to the cohort only getting stuff if the leader donates it from his own share is reasonable -depends what the group want.
FntsyWlkr 02-05-07, 01:28 PM	My advice: > Threatening monster with DR: Anybody can hit it, but it'll still keep coming. And it can have average BAB. > Ambush/team tactics: have about seven smaller creatures ambush. That way you can suit three of them to have high BAB's, and HPs ... and then a few suited to attack the rogue. > Think around it: creatures that base themselves in disarm, grapple, drains ... basically threaten everyone, without focusing on class. > drop them a wand of healing: that way they have healing abilities < NPC Cleric: set up a templer where they have to pay for healing. You could also use this temple to progress the larger plot.
hedgeknight 02-05-07, 03:02 PM	Two words: rust monster. Your "tank" of a fighter needs to meet one or two of the critters in an alley or dungeon corridor and lose some of that AC, you know, bring him down a notch or three to the same EL as your other PCs. Of course a spellcaster with heat or cool metal spell works well too. ;) As for healing, you could have a temple or small shrine that provides healing for adventurers who make a "donation" to the church. Lots of options. Good luck. -g-