Post/Author/DateTime	Post
CalemJones 06-08-06, 12:11 PM	I was thinking of having a rule in my campaign that the only way the Pcs can get a migic item is if they make it themselves. If anyone else has tried this rule let me know how it worked out. thanks for the information
stealth_monkey 06-08-06, 12:13 PM	Well that'll really screw non-spellcasters over (if you're still using the standard item rules) seeing as how unless they can cast a spell, they can't make an item. As the party wizard I am not going to squander my precious xp on gearing the entire party up. They'll get sweet items and I'll be two levels under anyone else
Kobajagrande 06-08-06, 12:28 PM	I don't have that as a rule, but it mostly comes down to that in my games. The players worked out nice, making stuff for each other, exchanging stuff and trading magic items with NPC wizards for the ones they needed at the time. Still, it has more chances of not working out then of working out. You might want to reconsider it.
StMage 06-08-06, 12:56 PM	I had a similar idea that I ran in one of my games. the Characters found some old texts that told how to create a few diffrent things. weapons vs extraplanar: any weapon used only to kill 10 extraplanar beings then blessed by a priest of a specific god will be rendered +1/+4 vs extraplanar. Or a blade that has slit 100 orc throats, becomes an orc-bane blade = +1D6 to orcs. A darkwood staff, suspended under a waterfall for 1 month gains some water type spell effect 1/Day I had a lot of fun inventing things that had to be done to generate effects in items. It was the group's hard work, and patience, not just the money, that gave them some great items.
Millennium 06-08-06, 01:08 PM	Echoing stealth monkey's concern: what would you do for non-spellcasters? Can they not have magic items at all, since they can't make them? The problem with this method is that no matter how you answer this question, someone gets screwed over. If nonspellcasters can't use items at all then they get screwed, because the game balance (rightly or wrongly) depends on nonspellcasters using items. If the party's spellcasters can make items for nonspellcasters, then the spellcasters get screwed, because they'll have to constantly sacrifice XP to keep the party equipped.
bobberry109 06-08-06, 04:31 PM	The only way you could truely enforce this would be by making it so the bad guys have no magic items either. Otherwise the party fighter will use whatever magic weapon comes his way when he beats the tar out of your evil guy's bodyguard. The party wizard will take the pearls of power and scrolls from the corpse of the evil wizard, etc. Remember all players will happily loot the dead, especially if magic items are harder to come by. The only way this could work would be by changing the item creation rules like suggested so certain deeds will eventually create magical items. However be warned if these are too open to interpretation you will wind up with some odd weapons. for example i had a leg bone of orc slaying once, it wasnt magical its just i could finally hit stuff when using it so my bard became convinced that this leg bone from a long dead cell mate had picked up a magical effect. also many higher level CR's take into account that you have the appropriate amount of wealth for your level and access to magic items. All in all it may create some great flavour, but its just not worth the headache. I would suggest just creating a low magic setting and not letting every large town have a magic mart with endless suplies of items, make them made to order so you have to wait a day or seven to reap the benefits.
DarkRhystar 06-08-06, 04:36 PM	You do realize that Artificers will be gods? Just checking. Also note that the divine casters who don't rely heavily on items will be beyond powerful too.
Kes Alanadel 06-08-06, 08:31 PM	Why would the spell casters be screwed? IIRC, in the DMG, it says that anyone can put forth XP for a magical item. If the fighter wants a +1 or such sword, then they can use some of their XP for the creation. If the fighter doesn't want to share the XP cost of the item, then the wizard/cleric just doesn't make it. :)
Galroth 06-08-06, 09:20 PM	Why would the spell casters be screwed? IIRC, in the DMG, it says that anyone can put forth XP for a magical item. If the fighter wants a +1 or such sword, then they can use some of their XP for the creation. If the fighter doesn't want to share the XP cost of the item, then the wizard/cleric just doesn't make it. :) Your spellcasters are also giving up combat and flavor feats to take Item creation feats. Now I tend to take those feats anyways, because that is what I like, but you would be forcing them into those feats in order to keep the party effective.
AZNsupermarket 06-08-06, 10:17 PM	a VOP monk will screw you up
Gilfalas_Elaandrin 06-08-06, 11:15 PM	Why would the spell casters be screwed? IIRC, in the DMG, it says that anyone can put forth XP for a magical item. Could you point to where it says that? From what I can tell in the SRD it says: To create magic items, spellcasters use special feats. They invest time, money, and their own personal energy (in the form of experience points) in an item’s creation. Their own personal energy. That would seem to me to be the creator. Yes it says others can help create like adding in a mage to cast fireball so your cleric can make a flaming sword. I would even go so far to say, as a table rule, that two creators could work together on an item to reduce creation time and to share XP costs should they BOTH have the appropriate feats. But I cannot see anywhere in the rules where anyone can pay the XP costs. Course it is possible I missed it. Frankly (to the OP) if you do that you then force all the player casters to give up their feats to magic creation. If the player was going to do that anyways great but if not then they may start to resent having their feats mandated by party need, NOT to mention their XP being burned for the items which will retard their leveling pace. Better would be to make any NPC who COULD make magic items extremely ahrd to get to, hard to befriend or simply rare. Maybe making items is an art that only 8-9 mages in the game world currently hold? (One for each alignment perhaps) and the party would have to do favors for them or make good relations with them to get items made and to have the skill taught to party casters. Limiting items to ONLY what the party makes will be disastrous for your casters IMO, unless the players of your casters really are into it. Additionally it will almost guarentee that the not crafters will have level advantages over them.
Herald@Large 06-09-06, 03:29 PM	There's also the problem that Craft Magic Arms and Armor can't be taken until the caster is 5th level. That means *no* magic weapons -- not even a +1 arrow -- for quite a while. Which means you can't use monsters that are only hit by magic weapons (unless you're sadistic ;) ;) ;) )
Cifer 06-09-06, 03:59 PM	Which means you can't use monsters that are only hit by magic weapons (unless you're sadistic) Well... it only means that the party should know about these monsters and make sure to conserve the spellpower needed to deal with them as well as protecting their spellcasters. You might want to try out the "bonding" section from DMG II. It covers rituals which enable non-casters to make their items magical basically in the same way StMage said. I am going to run a kobold campaign in the near future. Since the race is pretty degenerated at first, they won't have any magical items for sale. Many monsters which might carry items are not the right size for kobolds and the small races of the world (like gnomes) certainly won't sell their items. Thus, the players have elected an artificer who will cannibalize other magic items and reforge them in the way the players need them. Basically, I'm trying to implement two different elements here: On the one hand, the self-reliance of the players (they are seen as saviours by their race, but said race will be way behind the players in levels, thus usually unable to contribute anything good enough for the level the PCs are at) and on the other hand, the absence of GP (anything the kobolds can support the pcs with will be given for free while no other race would trade with them). Also, you should closely watch the allowed classes and feats. Incarnum with its chakrabinds is a lot more powerful when magical items are rare, same as characters with VoP.
kliate 06-09-06, 04:43 PM	There's also the problem that Craft Magic Arms and Armor can't be taken until the caster is 5th level. That means *no* magic weapons -- not even a +1 arrow -- for quite a while. Which means you can't use monsters that are only hit by magic weapons (unless you're sadistic ;) ;) ;) ) :nonono: That's what the first level spell, Magic Weapon, is for.
Thomar_of_Uointer 06-09-06, 05:18 PM	Could you point to where it says that? From what I can tell in the SRD it says: Their own personal energy. That would seem to me to be the creator. Yes it says others can help create like adding in a mage to cast fireball so your cleric can make a flaming sword. I would even go so far to say, as a table rule, that two creators could work together on an item to reduce creation time and to share XP costs should they BOTH have the appropriate feats. But I cannot see anywhere in the rules where anyone can pay the XP costs. Course it is possible I missed it. http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20060526a Recent article, take a look at it. So, if you make it so that only PCs have magic items, what are you going to equip the high-level NPCs with? Basically, you'll defeat your original purpose of making the PCs too powerful by making everything they fight weaker.
BRJN 06-09-06, 10:21 PM	I think you are going to have some cranky and frustrated PCs. Try this: in any big enough city there is somebody who can Craft Magic Items. In a really big city (imperial capital) there are enough magical craftsmen to obtain anything you want. But the craftsmen might have a backlog of stuff to make for other customers who are waiting. Take a number and get in line. This way the PCs can get their stuff (and in a panic can be relieved of much cash in the form of bribes) but they may have to deal with a long wait or endure plot hooks in the meanwhile - hey, magical craftsmen need components and XP too. You should also consider that if magic items are incredibly rare, flashing a bunch around is likely to get you visits by the police, army, Thieves Guild, various churches, spies, Pharaoh's ambassador, &c. Not all of whom will leave the items in your possession. Perhaps magic items should be common enough - although not ubiquitous - that +1 Swords and Underpants of Mage Armor do not draw constant overbearing attention.