A new take on alignment [Archive] - Wizards Community

A new take on alignment [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
The_Fan
06-20-05, 05:47 PM I'm starting a new campaign tonight, and I have decided to take a different approach to alignment. My players have already been informed of this, I'm just wondering what you guys think of it. I call it:

Neutral until proven otherwise

I noticed my players tend to fall into all the most common traps of alignment: Playing it like they feel it should be not the way it is, treating CN as a "do what you want" alignment, thumbing their noses at authority when they're supposedly lawful, etc.

Under this system, they write down what alignment they think their character should be. I have a 15x15 grid on notebook paper, and they start dead center of the neutral zone. As they make decisions and interact with NPCs, I shift them around as part of my DM notes based on the most fundamental guidelines in the PHB.

I don't tell them where they are on the grid unless they have an item like the phylactery of faithfulness. If at level-up they do not qualify for their class, then I will tell them they can't take a level in it and why. An example would be a monk who has become neutral being "unable to keep up with your training. It's just holdng you back from a huge new world outside the monastary."

Obviously, characters with classes that have alignment requirements will want those a lot more now. In the case of classes like monk, I'll allow them to return to it even after taking another level provided they become lawful again and take the Monastic Training or an appropriate Ascetic feat.

How does this sound?
ManinDarkness
06-20-05, 05:52 PM I have a few questions: How do you manage a character that wants to begin play as a class that has alignment requirements? How easy is it to change a step? Can multiple steps be moved at once? Do you move it based on only the last action or is it a career mean?
Aurum
06-20-05, 06:02 PM For classes that have no alignment requirement, this is good.

But for classes with the requirement, I'd suggest making them aware of when slipping occurs in a non-fatal environment before they level and find out that they can't "Monk out" any further. They might be able to justify their own past behavior, or offer a perspective you might have missed.

Some classes require a philosophical mindset: being able to recognize and adhere to that mindset is just as much a class ability as a Monk's unarmed strike or a Rogue's sneak attack. Don't penalize the character's class abilities because the player doesn't use them right.
The_Fan
06-20-05, 06:08 PM Characters who start out in the class are assumed to have followed it most of the time up until this point. Loss of class abilities etc. doesn't kick in until they level up. (just to simplify things)

It works on a career mean. I made it 15x15 so each alignment is 5 "steps" in any direction. I'm considering expanding it to 20x20 so that the neutral area is much larger. Acts of great evil or great personal sacrifice can shift it more points, but by default most actions are only one or two points.
ManinDarkness
06-20-05, 06:23 PM I'd advise to tell characters with alignment-prerequisited-classes when his characters reach the edge, with one more step preventing them from using their classes. And make it a 19 x 19 grid, because a 20 x 20 one doesn't have a center. :)
snowlynx
06-20-05, 08:30 PM Sounds good to me, but I have never been in love with the alignment system. If it weren't for stuff like holy weapons and who should be able to wield them, or classes that clearly ought to be one way or another, I would be giving alignment a good solid kick out the door in my games.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
The_Fan 06-20-05, 05:47 PM	I'm starting a new campaign tonight, and I have decided to take a different approach to alignment. My players have already been informed of this, I'm just wondering what you guys think of it. I call it: Neutral until proven otherwise I noticed my players tend to fall into all the most common traps of alignment: Playing it like they feel it should be not the way it is, treating CN as a "do what you want" alignment, thumbing their noses at authority when they're supposedly lawful, etc. Under this system, they write down what alignment they think their character should be. I have a 15x15 grid on notebook paper, and they start dead center of the neutral zone. As they make decisions and interact with NPCs, I shift them around as part of my DM notes based on the most fundamental guidelines in the PHB. I don't tell them where they are on the grid unless they have an item like the phylactery of faithfulness. If at level-up they do not qualify for their class, then I will tell them they can't take a level in it and why. An example would be a monk who has become neutral being "unable to keep up with your training. It's just holdng you back from a huge new world outside the monastary." Obviously, characters with classes that have alignment requirements will want those a lot more now. In the case of classes like monk, I'll allow them to return to it even after taking another level provided they become lawful again and take the Monastic Training or an appropriate Ascetic feat. How does this sound?
ManinDarkness 06-20-05, 05:52 PM	I have a few questions: How do you manage a character that wants to begin play as a class that has alignment requirements? How easy is it to change a step? Can multiple steps be moved at once? Do you move it based on only the last action or is it a career mean?
Aurum 06-20-05, 06:02 PM	For classes that have no alignment requirement, this is good. But for classes with the requirement, I'd suggest making them aware of when slipping occurs in a non-fatal environment before they level and find out that they can't "Monk out" any further. They might be able to justify their own past behavior, or offer a perspective you might have missed. Some classes require a philosophical mindset: being able to recognize and adhere to that mindset is just as much a class ability as a Monk's unarmed strike or a Rogue's sneak attack. Don't penalize the character's class abilities because the player doesn't use them right.
The_Fan 06-20-05, 06:08 PM	Characters who start out in the class are assumed to have followed it most of the time up until this point. Loss of class abilities etc. doesn't kick in until they level up. (just to simplify things) It works on a career mean. I made it 15x15 so each alignment is 5 "steps" in any direction. I'm considering expanding it to 20x20 so that the neutral area is much larger. Acts of great evil or great personal sacrifice can shift it more points, but by default most actions are only one or two points.
ManinDarkness 06-20-05, 06:23 PM	I'd advise to tell characters with alignment-prerequisited-classes when his characters reach the edge, with one more step preventing them from using their classes. And make it a 19 x 19 grid, because a 20 x 20 one doesn't have a center. :)
snowlynx 06-20-05, 08:30 PM	Sounds good to me, but I have never been in love with the alignment system. If it weren't for stuff like holy weapons and who should be able to wield them, or classes that clearly ought to be one way or another, I would be giving alignment a good solid kick out the door in my games.