A Nice Way of Balancing [Archive] - Wizards Community

A Nice Way of Balancing [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Disco
07-21-05, 09:21 PM Hey all, I thought I would share with everyone a couple of in house rules we use and get everyone's opinion of them.

a) Firstly, when it comes to character generation, we get players to roll their stats at level 1. However, once they are past, say, level 4 or 5 then if anyone joins the party (due to death, or whatever) they will point by at 32.

What does that do? Well, when rolling for a high powered campaign you generally end up with fairly impressive stats. Our lowest has a point buy score of 42. BUT you can really tell the difference between a character who has been built for level 1, lev2, lev3 etc and someone who has JUST been built for level 5. The way they generate feats, skills, and spend money on magic items means characters who have been built for a specific level are much more powerful then those who have been battling since level 1. Hence the reason those lev1 characters have higher stats...

b) Another custom rule we use relates to criticals. We all know how unfair it is for instant death roles on characters, most DM's have custom rules here. What we do, instead of taking damage, is to take stats.

Slashing = Strength (to slash tendons)
Peircing = Constitution (getting organs)
Bludgeoning = Dexterity (nailing joints)

So when they crit we end up losing, hmmm around D6 of a certain stat. Makes restoration kind of handy ;)

What do you guys think?
20goingon1232
07-21-05, 09:54 PM If you have been following the DMG guidelines with regards to money, the table for starting cash already takes into account optimisation of gear. Compare that table's amount to the average gp/encounter table and it soon become easily apparent that the av gp/encounter table is a LOT more than the starting gold table.

So, your rules on the point buy is merely punishing new players/dead players who are already a level behind.

The instant death rules for crits is optional. I never use it myself as it is nasty on the players (and I have an unnerving ability to crit the living daylights out of them when I am DM-ing, but not when I am a player, go figure). Besides, by those rules, any party without a cleric and a lot of diamond dust is in deep doo-doo. Not to mention the poor sap that rolled badly and had to assign a physical str a low number like 6. More likely to instant death someone with that rule than the normal triple 20 rule.
Ni!
07-21-05, 11:27 PM I like the crit rule.

Personally, I would just stick with either point buy or dice rolls all the way through so it is an even playing field.
Ibbins
07-21-05, 11:31 PM I think your rule on crits is a really nifty idea, though the bit that 20goingon1232 pointed out does rather screw things over somewhat.
celtredleg
07-21-05, 11:42 PM I never use the instant death crit rule. Just to arbitrary to lose a PC that way.
Alynn
07-21-05, 11:50 PM What about Slash/Piercing weapons? 1d6 for both? or 1d3 for each?
Ze_Mighty_Vegetable
07-22-05, 12:38 AM Hey all, I thought I would share with everyone a couple of in house rules we use and get everyone's opinion of them.

a) Firstly, when it comes to character generation, we get players to roll their stats at level 1. However, once they are past, say, level 4 or 5 then if anyone joins the party (due to death, or whatever) they will point by at 32.

What does that do? Well, when rolling for a high powered campaign you generally end up with fairly impressive stats. Our lowest has a point buy score of 42. BUT you can really tell the difference between a character who has been built for level 1, lev2, lev3 etc and someone who has JUST been built for level 5. The way they generate feats, skills, and spend money on magic items means characters who have been built for a specific level are much more powerful then those who have been battling since level 1. Hence the reason those lev1 characters have higher stats...
Nice. I think I'll do that too. In my games, I only allow 2 classes/Prc to players made above level 1. It stop the multi-class arms race.

b) Another custom rule we use relates to criticals. We all know how unfair it is for instant death roles on characters, most DM's have custom rules here. What we do, instead of taking damage, is to take stats.

Slashing = Strength (to slash tendons)
Peircing = Constitution (getting organs)
Bludgeoning = Dexterity (nailing joints)

So when they crit we end up losing, hmmm around D6 of a certain stat. Makes restoration kind of handy ;)

What do you guys think?
Personaly, I rule that anybody who is crtitically killed suffer only normal crit damage (except if it would kills them), but it is a nasty wound. The sort that doesn't heal well. For a week, the crit damage will be deduced from his max HP, returning at a rate of 1 per day (2 if he rests). If the PC is wounded in a fight, he doesn't heal that day.

If the damage would kill him (indeed, everytime a PC would die because of a crit), he's merely brought at -7 and, should he survive, will suffer as mentionned above.
Dragonsblood
07-22-05, 02:15 AM Make it a double crit for 1d3 ability score damage on top of the regular HP damage (make it sting, but not completely dissable), and let the ability score damage heal on its own overnight, and I'd be OK with it.

Your character generation rule I can't comment on because I don't know how much wealth you give your PCs and I don't know your "high powered" rules.
Thoronmir
07-22-05, 10:13 AM Actually, we have a fairly vibrant gaming community where I live and I don’t know a single DM who uses “instant kill” rules on Crits of any kind. In general, any rule that makes combat more dangerous has a disproportionate impact on the PCs … especially rules that impose penalties that last longer than the encounter. Chances are that Bob the Orc isn’t going to make any encore performances in the campaign, so it hardly matters whether he loses 1d6 Strength. Granted, it’s possible that you would use Bob in a later adventure (assuming he survives), but most likely you’ll simply use a new batch of Orcs. I don’t like any house rule that imposes additional penalties for Crits (or “fumbles” either for that matter).

I agree that your method for character generation should be consistent. Either everyone uses point buy or everyone rolls. As has been noted, the Wealth Table is not as generous as the Treasure Table. As for selecting feats and skills, I usually have a pretty good idea what I’m going to do with a level 1 PC at least through level 5. Yes, my plan is always subject to change, but I usually manage to stick to the program, especially when it comes to choosing feats. A note for the roleplayers out there … this is my plan as a player; it’s not as if my character sits around the campfire plotting his progression of skills and feats, “Oooh, if we can kill twelve more Orcs, I’ll be experienced enough to learn how to fire two arrows at once!”

I don’t know how you handle characters who begin higher than level 1, but we use a form we call a “Worksheet” that allows the player to actually build a PC from level 1 up. It tracks each specific change level to level. Players are required to buy skills and feats at level 1, and then add as they rise in level. Multi-Classers identify which Class they took at each Character Level and apply any Class benefits at that level. Aside from a few random skill ranks spent along the way, a PC that starts at level 5 shouldn’t differ much from a PC that rose to level 5.
Disco
07-24-05, 10:13 PM "Chances are that Bob the Orc isn’t going to make any encore performances in the campaign, so it hardly matters whether he loses 1d6 Strength. Granted, it’s possible that you would use Bob in a later adventure (assuming he survives), but most likely you’ll simply use a new batch of Orcs. I don’t like any house rule that imposes additional penalties for Crits (or “fumbles” either for that matter)"

Ah, yeah, sorry if I wasn't clear. The instant kill roll still applies when players hit monsters, but the neg 1D6 result applies when monsters hit players.
Ze_Mighty_Vegetable
07-24-05, 11:06 PM I don’t know how you handle characters who begin higher than level 1, but we use a form we call a “Worksheet” that allows the player to actually build a PC from level 1 up. It tracks each specific change level to level. Players are required to buy skills and feats at level 1, and then add as they rise in level. Multi-Classers identify which Class they took at each Character Level and apply any Class benefits at that level. Aside from a few random skill ranks spent along the way, a PC that starts at level 5 shouldn’t differ much from a PC that rose to level 5.

I think the problem is not legal choice, it is the unrealistic design of higher level PC. Let's say you make a sorcerer/druid intent on taking mystic theurge. If you start at level one, you are gonna hurt a lot until you gain the ability to take mystic theurge, compensating for the power you're gonna have later on. By designing such a PC from, say, 8th level up, you skip the hard part and get straight to the benefits. The same is true for skills like swim, jump, climb. At low level, you are gonna hurt without them. When a sorcerer can cast fly, they are not that important. Therefore, when designing a PC from a higher level, they'll get skimped.
Disco
07-25-05, 01:50 AM I think the problem is not legal choice, it is the unrealistic design of higher level PC. Let's say you make a sorcerer/druid intent on taking mystic theurge. If you start at level one, you are gonna hurt a lot until you gain the ability to take mystic theurge, compensating for the power you're gonna have later on. By designing such a PC from, say, 8th level up, you skip the hard part and get straight to the benefits. The same is true for skills like swim, jump, climb. At low level, you are gonna hurt without them. When a sorcerer can cast fly, they are not that important. Therefore, when designing a PC from a higher level, they'll get skimped.

Exactly. :)

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Disco 07-21-05, 09:21 PM	Hey all, I thought I would share with everyone a couple of in house rules we use and get everyone's opinion of them. a) Firstly, when it comes to character generation, we get players to roll their stats at level 1. However, once they are past, say, level 4 or 5 then if anyone joins the party (due to death, or whatever) they will point by at 32. What does that do? Well, when rolling for a high powered campaign you generally end up with fairly impressive stats. Our lowest has a point buy score of 42. BUT you can really tell the difference between a character who has been built for level 1, lev2, lev3 etc and someone who has JUST been built for level 5. The way they generate feats, skills, and spend money on magic items means characters who have been built for a specific level are much more powerful then those who have been battling since level 1. Hence the reason those lev1 characters have higher stats... b) Another custom rule we use relates to criticals. We all know how unfair it is for instant death roles on characters, most DM's have custom rules here. What we do, instead of taking damage, is to take stats. Slashing = Strength (to slash tendons) Peircing = Constitution (getting organs) Bludgeoning = Dexterity (nailing joints) So when they crit we end up losing, hmmm around D6 of a certain stat. Makes restoration kind of handy ;) What do you guys think?
20goingon1232 07-21-05, 09:54 PM	If you have been following the DMG guidelines with regards to money, the table for starting cash already takes into account optimisation of gear. Compare that table's amount to the average gp/encounter table and it soon become easily apparent that the av gp/encounter table is a LOT more than the starting gold table. So, your rules on the point buy is merely punishing new players/dead players who are already a level behind. The instant death rules for crits is optional. I never use it myself as it is nasty on the players (and I have an unnerving ability to crit the living daylights out of them when I am DM-ing, but not when I am a player, go figure). Besides, by those rules, any party without a cleric and a lot of diamond dust is in deep doo-doo. Not to mention the poor sap that rolled badly and had to assign a physical str a low number like 6. More likely to instant death someone with that rule than the normal triple 20 rule.
Ni! 07-21-05, 11:27 PM	I like the crit rule. Personally, I would just stick with either point buy or dice rolls all the way through so it is an even playing field.
Ibbins 07-21-05, 11:31 PM	I think your rule on crits is a really nifty idea, though the bit that 20goingon1232 pointed out does rather screw things over somewhat.
celtredleg 07-21-05, 11:42 PM	I never use the instant death crit rule. Just to arbitrary to lose a PC that way.
Alynn 07-21-05, 11:50 PM	What about Slash/Piercing weapons? 1d6 for both? or 1d3 for each?
Ze_Mighty_Vegetable 07-22-05, 12:38 AM	Hey all, I thought I would share with everyone a couple of in house rules we use and get everyone's opinion of them. a) Firstly, when it comes to character generation, we get players to roll their stats at level 1. However, once they are past, say, level 4 or 5 then if anyone joins the party (due to death, or whatever) they will point by at 32. What does that do? Well, when rolling for a high powered campaign you generally end up with fairly impressive stats. Our lowest has a point buy score of 42. BUT you can really tell the difference between a character who has been built for level 1, lev2, lev3 etc and someone who has JUST been built for level 5. The way they generate feats, skills, and spend money on magic items means characters who have been built for a specific level are much more powerful then those who have been battling since level 1. Hence the reason those lev1 characters have higher stats... Nice. I think I'll do that too. In my games, I only allow 2 classes/Prc to players made above level 1. It stop the multi-class arms race. b) Another custom rule we use relates to criticals. We all know how unfair it is for instant death roles on characters, most DM's have custom rules here. What we do, instead of taking damage, is to take stats. Slashing = Strength (to slash tendons) Peircing = Constitution (getting organs) Bludgeoning = Dexterity (nailing joints) So when they crit we end up losing, hmmm around D6 of a certain stat. Makes restoration kind of handy ;) What do you guys think? Personaly, I rule that anybody who is crtitically killed suffer only normal crit damage (except if it would kills them), but it is a nasty wound. The sort that doesn't heal well. For a week, the crit damage will be deduced from his max HP, returning at a rate of 1 per day (2 if he rests). If the PC is wounded in a fight, he doesn't heal that day. If the damage would kill him (indeed, everytime a PC would die because of a crit), he's merely brought at -7 and, should he survive, will suffer as mentionned above.
Dragonsblood 07-22-05, 02:15 AM	Make it a double crit for 1d3 ability score damage on top of the regular HP damage (make it sting, but not completely dissable), and let the ability score damage heal on its own overnight, and I'd be OK with it. Your character generation rule I can't comment on because I don't know how much wealth you give your PCs and I don't know your "high powered" rules.
Thoronmir 07-22-05, 10:13 AM	Actually, we have a fairly vibrant gaming community where I live and I don’t know a single DM who uses “instant kill” rules on Crits of any kind. In general, any rule that makes combat more dangerous has a disproportionate impact on the PCs … especially rules that impose penalties that last longer than the encounter. Chances are that Bob the Orc isn’t going to make any encore performances in the campaign, so it hardly matters whether he loses 1d6 Strength. Granted, it’s possible that you would use Bob in a later adventure (assuming he survives), but most likely you’ll simply use a new batch of Orcs. I don’t like any house rule that imposes additional penalties for Crits (or “fumbles” either for that matter). I agree that your method for character generation should be consistent. Either everyone uses point buy or everyone rolls. As has been noted, the Wealth Table is not as generous as the Treasure Table. As for selecting feats and skills, I usually have a pretty good idea what I’m going to do with a level 1 PC at least through level 5. Yes, my plan is always subject to change, but I usually manage to stick to the program, especially when it comes to choosing feats. A note for the roleplayers out there … this is my plan as a player; it’s not as if my character sits around the campfire plotting his progression of skills and feats, “Oooh, if we can kill twelve more Orcs, I’ll be experienced enough to learn how to fire two arrows at once!” I don’t know how you handle characters who begin higher than level 1, but we use a form we call a “Worksheet” that allows the player to actually build a PC from level 1 up. It tracks each specific change level to level. Players are required to buy skills and feats at level 1, and then add as they rise in level. Multi-Classers identify which Class they took at each Character Level and apply any Class benefits at that level. Aside from a few random skill ranks spent along the way, a PC that starts at level 5 shouldn’t differ much from a PC that rose to level 5.
Disco 07-24-05, 10:13 PM	"Chances are that Bob the Orc isn’t going to make any encore performances in the campaign, so it hardly matters whether he loses 1d6 Strength. Granted, it’s possible that you would use Bob in a later adventure (assuming he survives), but most likely you’ll simply use a new batch of Orcs. I don’t like any house rule that imposes additional penalties for Crits (or “fumbles” either for that matter)" Ah, yeah, sorry if I wasn't clear. The instant kill roll still applies when players hit monsters, but the neg 1D6 result applies when monsters hit players.
Ze_Mighty_Vegetable 07-24-05, 11:06 PM	I don’t know how you handle characters who begin higher than level 1, but we use a form we call a “Worksheet” that allows the player to actually build a PC from level 1 up. It tracks each specific change level to level. Players are required to buy skills and feats at level 1, and then add as they rise in level. Multi-Classers identify which Class they took at each Character Level and apply any Class benefits at that level. Aside from a few random skill ranks spent along the way, a PC that starts at level 5 shouldn’t differ much from a PC that rose to level 5. I think the problem is not legal choice, it is the unrealistic design of higher level PC. Let's say you make a sorcerer/druid intent on taking mystic theurge. If you start at level one, you are gonna hurt a lot until you gain the ability to take mystic theurge, compensating for the power you're gonna have later on. By designing such a PC from, say, 8th level up, you skip the hard part and get straight to the benefits. The same is true for skills like swim, jump, climb. At low level, you are gonna hurt without them. When a sorcerer can cast fly, they are not that important. Therefore, when designing a PC from a higher level, they'll get skimped.
Disco 07-25-05, 01:50 AM	I think the problem is not legal choice, it is the unrealistic design of higher level PC. Let's say you make a sorcerer/druid intent on taking mystic theurge. If you start at level one, you are gonna hurt a lot until you gain the ability to take mystic theurge, compensating for the power you're gonna have later on. By designing such a PC from, say, 8th level up, you skip the hard part and get straight to the benefits. The same is true for skills like swim, jump, climb. At low level, you are gonna hurt without them. When a sorcerer can cast fly, they are not that important. Therefore, when designing a PC from a higher level, they'll get skimped. Exactly. :)