A Party with 2 players [Archive] - Wizards Community

A Party with 2 players [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
MindLich
10-01-06, 10:24 PM Ok, first my party has only two players due to "conflicts" with the 3rd one. Until now the party is composed by:
-Gweanad (Cleric Lvl 3) controlled by player A.
-Sylverian (Druid Lvl 2 because the last wizard died, and a wolf companion) controlled by player B.
-Umakoth (Fighter Lvl 3) controlled by me.
-Gambled (Wizard Lvl1 - Rogue Lvl 1, because the last rogue died) also controlled by me.
They are currently investigating some gnome ruins.

Ok so here is the question. After spoting some threads that talk about DMPC's in the forum (rather violent threads these) I have come to the conclusion that I could be ruining the campaign. But my "DMPCs" don't give much information to the players and they aren't favoured in any way (some already died). But if they aren't in the campaign (and by the way I can't get more players) it won't be as fun, because the players will continue to fight rats and that type of stuff.

I would want some peaceful recomendations please. (And please don't say: "Oh no, another DMPC thread again. WHY!!!)
Conshey
10-01-06, 11:03 PM to tell you the truth i have been running DMPC's in parties successfully off and on for years. There is nothing wrong with doing it, as long as the group needs it. Now in your case i would blank out a second DMPC and go for a single one. Just be prepared to give it up once you come back up to four players. DMPC's in the other forums are really very powerful characters (generally 5-10 levels over the party) and bully the PC's into doing what the DM wants. That is why the boards are so Biased against this (in your case) game saving tool. Just remember the saying "When your done using a tool, put it away"

Conshey
MindLich
10-01-06, 11:14 PM Much thanks, I really appreciate comments and help. Your post has proven very useful and I'm currently evaluating every single proposition. Comments encouraged.
trapspringer
10-02-06, 12:10 AM DMPCs are vital in smaller games with inexperienced players incapable of making a survivable two man team. It isn't impossible to do so, however. Ultimately it is up to you as a DM if you want to include such a character or just guide the players in their character creation.

The inclusion of a DMPC can be done effectively and can even improve a game if executed carefully. It's just tricky. Try not to do too much combat damage with him, and try not to be the one who finishes off an encounter (be it trap, puzzle, NPC interaction, or monster). Try not to act on your own too often, but instead be a willing aid to the party (but he should actually cares about his own life and goals, of course).

Just monitor your players' reactions towards DMPCs to ensure they aren't getting sick of 'em, and if necessary ask the players every now and then. If it isn't a problem there isn't any sense in tryin' to fix it.
frenzied
10-02-06, 12:21 AM Another possibility (I've never used it, so I don't know how well it would actually work), is to allow the players some degree of control over the DMPC's in combat. This level of control could range from each player totally controlling one DMPC, to the players giving general instructions to the DMPC's, and you carrying them out.
If you give the players total control, you might want to institute some sort of penalty the the PC's if they get the DMPC's killed through stupidity (i.e. the DMPC died due to factors other than bad luck).
efraker
10-02-06, 01:24 AM The solution to your problem is Gestalt, in my opinion.
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/gestaltCharacters.htm
KJW
10-02-06, 08:33 AM NPCs can be very useful for small parties, but the decision needs to be left to the players, if they are happy with just two then run it with just two. Yet, if they want some assistance give it to them. Two players is not much different than one player so check my link on solo campaigns in my signature, almost all of it applies in some degree to two player games.
RobbyPants
10-02-06, 10:10 AM I have to agree with Conshey.

I'm currently running a group of 3 people, with a cleric NPC that helps out in about 1/2 the encounters (alignment differences cause them to want to exclude him from certain activities - which I think is good RP). When the group first started, we only had 2 players. A 3rd joined 2 weeks ago, so the cleric NPC is less useful. I wouldn't consider the cleric a DMPC, mainly because most of the descisions are left to the players, the cleric is the same level, and he's not there every encounter.

I do sometimes use him as a springboard for some good RP... :)
Kendrik
10-02-06, 10:39 AM I use DMPC's as sort of cohorts. A player (who agrees ahead of time) runs him in combat and makes the necessarry ST rolls and the like. I handle the 'role play' aspect of the character. If the player's have questions, the DMPC is there to help.
I also keep the DMPC slightly lower level, so as not to overshadow anyone.
So far, this has worked out great. 2 P.C.'s in a rather deadly campain haven't died yet, and the DMPC has cast one commune spell and rolled 2 spot checks in the entire game.
Borne Of Hate
10-02-06, 02:14 PM You are doing absolutely nothing wrong as long as the DMPCs stay out of the spotlight. I would suggest running with the group of four until sixth level and then encourage the PCs to take the Leadership Feat so that they may attract followers and cohorts. This can be done thematically as well. If the PCs are under a certain deadline, maybe several things need to be done at once. This might encourage the PCs to split the party up, thereby allowing the exeunt of the DMPCs. Eventually this may lead to some adventure hooks as well!
DMPCs need help, DMPCs havent been heard from, DMPCs are held captive, whatever you can come up with that fits your game. The only thing that I encourage is to eventually let your PCs have the campaign and let them take the reigns.
danielinthewolvesden
10-02-06, 03:08 PM The solution to your problem is Gestalt, in my opinion.
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/gestaltCharacters.htm

Yep. Gestalt, and higher powered PC's, maybe a 36 pt buy. Maybe a coupel of cheap hirelings might be an idea.

You don't need a DMPC here.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
MindLich 10-01-06, 10:24 PM	Ok, first my party has only two players due to "conflicts" with the 3rd one. Until now the party is composed by: -Gweanad (Cleric Lvl 3) controlled by player A. -Sylverian (Druid Lvl 2 because the last wizard died, and a wolf companion) controlled by player B. -Umakoth (Fighter Lvl 3) controlled by me. -Gambled (Wizard Lvl1 - Rogue Lvl 1, because the last rogue died) also controlled by me. They are currently investigating some gnome ruins. Ok so here is the question. After spoting some threads that talk about DMPC's in the forum (rather violent threads these) I have come to the conclusion that I could be ruining the campaign. But my "DMPCs" don't give much information to the players and they aren't favoured in any way (some already died). But if they aren't in the campaign (and by the way I can't get more players) it won't be as fun, because the players will continue to fight rats and that type of stuff. I would want some peaceful recomendations please. (And please don't say: "Oh no, another DMPC thread again. WHY!!!)
Conshey 10-01-06, 11:03 PM	to tell you the truth i have been running DMPC's in parties successfully off and on for years. There is nothing wrong with doing it, as long as the group needs it. Now in your case i would blank out a second DMPC and go for a single one. Just be prepared to give it up once you come back up to four players. DMPC's in the other forums are really very powerful characters (generally 5-10 levels over the party) and bully the PC's into doing what the DM wants. That is why the boards are so Biased against this (in your case) game saving tool. Just remember the saying "When your done using a tool, put it away" Conshey
MindLich 10-01-06, 11:14 PM	Much thanks, I really appreciate comments and help. Your post has proven very useful and I'm currently evaluating every single proposition. Comments encouraged.
trapspringer 10-02-06, 12:10 AM	DMPCs are vital in smaller games with inexperienced players incapable of making a survivable two man team. It isn't impossible to do so, however. Ultimately it is up to you as a DM if you want to include such a character or just guide the players in their character creation. The inclusion of a DMPC can be done effectively and can even improve a game if executed carefully. It's just tricky. Try not to do too much combat damage with him, and try not to be the one who finishes off an encounter (be it trap, puzzle, NPC interaction, or monster). Try not to act on your own too often, but instead be a willing aid to the party (but he should actually cares about his own life and goals, of course). Just monitor your players' reactions towards DMPCs to ensure they aren't getting sick of 'em, and if necessary ask the players every now and then. If it isn't a problem there isn't any sense in tryin' to fix it.
frenzied 10-02-06, 12:21 AM	Another possibility (I've never used it, so I don't know how well it would actually work), is to allow the players some degree of control over the DMPC's in combat. This level of control could range from each player totally controlling one DMPC, to the players giving general instructions to the DMPC's, and you carrying them out. If you give the players total control, you might want to institute some sort of penalty the the PC's if they get the DMPC's killed through stupidity (i.e. the DMPC died due to factors other than bad luck).
efraker 10-02-06, 01:24 AM	The solution to your problem is Gestalt, in my opinion. http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/gestaltCharacters.htm
KJW 10-02-06, 08:33 AM	NPCs can be very useful for small parties, but the decision needs to be left to the players, if they are happy with just two then run it with just two. Yet, if they want some assistance give it to them. Two players is not much different than one player so check my link on solo campaigns in my signature, almost all of it applies in some degree to two player games.
RobbyPants 10-02-06, 10:10 AM	I have to agree with Conshey. I'm currently running a group of 3 people, with a cleric NPC that helps out in about 1/2 the encounters (alignment differences cause them to want to exclude him from certain activities - which I think is good RP). When the group first started, we only had 2 players. A 3rd joined 2 weeks ago, so the cleric NPC is less useful. I wouldn't consider the cleric a DMPC, mainly because most of the descisions are left to the players, the cleric is the same level, and he's not there every encounter. I do sometimes use him as a springboard for some good RP... :)
Kendrik 10-02-06, 10:39 AM	I use DMPC's as sort of cohorts. A player (who agrees ahead of time) runs him in combat and makes the necessarry ST rolls and the like. I handle the 'role play' aspect of the character. If the player's have questions, the DMPC is there to help. I also keep the DMPC slightly lower level, so as not to overshadow anyone. So far, this has worked out great. 2 P.C.'s in a rather deadly campain haven't died yet, and the DMPC has cast one commune spell and rolled 2 spot checks in the entire game.
Borne Of Hate 10-02-06, 02:14 PM	You are doing absolutely nothing wrong as long as the DMPCs stay out of the spotlight. I would suggest running with the group of four until sixth level and then encourage the PCs to take the Leadership Feat so that they may attract followers and cohorts. This can be done thematically as well. If the PCs are under a certain deadline, maybe several things need to be done at once. This might encourage the PCs to split the party up, thereby allowing the exeunt of the DMPCs. Eventually this may lead to some adventure hooks as well! DMPCs need help, DMPCs havent been heard from, DMPCs are held captive, whatever you can come up with that fits your game. The only thing that I encourage is to eventually let your PCs have the campaign and let them take the reigns.
danielinthewolvesden 10-02-06, 03:08 PM	The solution to your problem is Gestalt, in my opinion. http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/gestaltCharacters.htm Yep. Gestalt, and higher powered PC's, maybe a 36 pt buy. Maybe a coupel of cheap hirelings might be an idea. You don't need a DMPC here.