Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Alcari Ambaron 02-20-05, 04:15 AM	Recently a Player in my group started looking into some some medieval warefare information. Although i recommend exploring new tactics, my joy soon faded away, as the player in question started quoting Sun-tsu every two minutes but worst of all, his character (ranger with archer specialization) started into battles. (PAVISE: Large, usually rectangular shield carried by infantrymen and frequently used in siege operations to protect archers. The largest pavises were equipped with a prop to support them.) http://www.armouronline.com/encyclopedia_of_historical_weapons/p/pavise When I told him it would take at least 4 turns to hammer it into the ground, he brought a wooden plank with points on the bottom with him the next day, and stuck it in the ground within 6 seconds (1 turn). This of course greatly annoyed me. he agreed that it would be near impossible to use it in rocky ground. I would like to hear your suggestions on this, how much cover would it provide? how long would it take to remove it? what would be the hardness and HP of a pavise? is it re-useable?
MinusInnocence 02-20-05, 04:32 AM	We already have pavises in D&D. They're called tower shields. Oh, and they're so versatile, not only do you not have to spend a full round hammering them into the ground... when you're not cowering behind them in terror, you can carry them around as normal and they're twice as protective as the next best shield. p125, PHB v3.5
Alcari Ambaron 02-20-05, 07:44 AM	yes, and you can hold your tower shield in your third arm while using a longbow :rolleyes: but he basically want to set up his pavise/tower shield, and fight behind it while using both hands (not holding the shield).
astute1 02-20-05, 08:30 AM	I don't think the problem is hammering it into the ground so much as moving about with it. I don't think pavises were historically used for much more than siege weapons, since combat usually requires mobility, and carrying around a huge metal shield which you need to hammer into the ground, limits that. As seige weapons however, you could just stake a bunch of them into the ground near the enemy castle, and your archers would have cover nearly as good as the archers in the castle.
Alcari Ambaron 02-20-05, 12:47 PM	so, it would be very heavy...how much is that in pounds/kilo's ??
FriendoftheDork 02-20-05, 12:50 PM	I would allow it, but to effectively carry a tower shield you'd have to strap it to your arm. So you basically have to spend a move action unstrapping the shield, then planting the spike and suporting the shield as a full round action. Then he would have cover to the front. AT that time the combat is probably finished already, or the enemies have simply been running past the tower shield. So basically it is pretty useless except in sieges. If you can hire someone to carry your towershield (this was actually done in the field for crossbowmen) it could be used pretty effectively until HtH opponents closes in.
aaron3579 02-20-05, 01:07 PM	Some good suggestions here, but I feel compelled to mention that this player has obviously put some time and effort into his character out of game, and he should feel as if he is being rewarded for that; be careful that any nerfage is done in the spirit of balancing the game rather than outright spite. Sure, you can call this glorified munchkinary, but it shows an honest interest in your game world, and if no one is complaining and the player is having fun, I just don't see the harm. I'm not suggesting special treatment or favoritism. However, if the other players in your game see how this guy has success by thinking outside of the box, then perhaps they too will be motivated to take extra interest in their characters. A player that puts out-of-game-effort into his character is more likely to take an active interest in the nuances of that character's personality than is a player who just sits down in front of a distilled page of numbers every week and rolls dice.
Alcari Ambaron 02-20-05, 01:17 PM	yes i agree with aaron, i'll probably give him his pavise...but im looking for some In-game statistics. Weight, hp, hardness (material), size, maybe it has an arrow slit... that sort of stuff
Fixxxer 02-20-05, 01:18 PM	French crossbowmen were fond of using wooden pavise. These were easily carried, but would easily topple if hit squarely with something. Given the relatively small size of the thing and how it was used (fire bolt, duck behind, reload, pop up, fire bolt, etc), I'd allow it to provide soft cover, but he can't use it as a shield (even when he's carrying it around). Otherwise, I'd tell him to get a tower shield.
Guy Humual 02-20-05, 02:52 PM	yes i agree with aaron, i'll probably give him his pavise...but im looking for some In-game statistics. Weight, hp, hardness (material), size, maybe it has an arrow slit... that sort of stuff Just use the stats for a tower shield. Remember, unless he has a feat like shot on the run, the best cover he can hope for from his tower shield is 1/2 cover.
Alcari Ambaron 02-20-05, 04:26 PM	(sitting next to the player in question) Remember, unless he has a feat like shot on the run, the best cover he can hope for from his tower shield is 1/2 cover. You need Shot on the Run to duck back behind your cover?? now that i think about it, it does make sense, but i always regarded as ducking back behind cover was a free action. Given the relatively small size of the thing and how it was used (fire bolt, duck behind, reload, pop up, fire bolt, etc), I'd allow it to provide soft cover wait, i always thought pavises (or whatever the plural is) were a little under shoulder heigt.... i wouldn't say that's "relatively small", but i could well be mistaking. if it is a lot smaller, using a longbow/shortbow would not be very handy.
Nomad4life 02-20-05, 04:52 PM	I would let him have it… But at the same time, I wouldn’t pull any punches in letting him find out what a problematic piece of “adventuring” gear it would really be. Carrying it around everywhere, for example, would border on the ridiculous. In the midst of combat, just have the antagonists do what they would do anyway- run around it.