A PC Dies... what now? [Archive] - Wizards Community

A PC Dies... what now? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
srkingdavy
02-03-05, 05:50 AM A character dies after weeks or years of play. For whatever reason, the other PCs cannot get him raised... but the player wants to keep going and make a new character

This is one aspect of the game that every DM seems to handle differently, so I was wondering what you guys do.

Personally, I say the new player makes a character with a level of the lower of these two:

(previous level - 1)
(Average party level - 1)

Some DMs say the new character always has to be first level. others say the new character is one level below what he was before, some say two below.

how about you guys? how do you handle non-ressurectable PC death and new characters?
Saurenda
02-03-05, 06:00 AM I've never understood why some other Dm's wanted new characters to start below the party level.

When a character dies in my campagin, and they cannot be rezzed or raised they start at the party level or the character's previous level.

But with half character wealth. :P That way if the character doesn't seem to work out, the party does not continually help itself to the new character's things, or the character itself does a minimal amount of damage to the party.

Starting every new character at level one is silly. I don't think I'll ask a player to do that if the party average is above one. Penalizing them for death is fine, paralyzing them for the rest of game play so that they cannot act makes it unusual the party would allow someone so weak to join at all. I cannot see a party of 3 12th level adventures letting a level 1 join for any reason.
Derren S.
02-03-05, 06:33 AM Either level -1 or level -2, depending on the players and how I rule starting gold/equipment in the campaign.
der_gogo
02-03-05, 06:35 AM We usually let them make a new Character at lvl -1. If he was ressurected he would have also lost a level, so this is ok.

The new character has the average starting wealth of this level - which I don't think is a good thing. The equipment is much better if you can just choose what you want to have instead of having to loot it...
penchant
02-03-05, 07:32 AM Roleplaying is not a win or lose situation, so a PC dying should not feel like it. Unless a Player is experiencing 'excessive' PC deaths I start them at the lowest in the party with minimum xp. They may not have the best starting gear, but if you strip them and make them a lower level, you are just setting them up for another quick death. I had a character die in a DM's game who believed in starting people off with half levels and no magic. That Cavalier couldn't even keep up with the party rogue in combat and died after a few sessions. Especially when his class requires him to attack the biggest threat.

Dying is not losing and I won't penalize you for doing so. I will reward players for being good sports. I just killed a party member last session with a cockatrice. He was a good sport about it and I let him start at higher than minimum xp as well as starting with a magic item equal to the one he lost on the old character.
VerinBlod
02-03-05, 07:42 AM If characters can't be brought back from death they can start at -1 level and they have full starting gear appropriate for their level.
Burgundy Lotus
02-03-05, 07:50 AM The new character starts at one level below the lowest level in the party. This means a loss of 1 or 2 levels, or none if they were already the lowest level.
Black Kitten
02-03-05, 08:51 AM When I DM no-one should start a level lower, since I always have them walking a tightrope between life and death. It's logical that with a high chance of death by my choice, I also limit the penalties. I just think it's not fun that if your character dies because of a heroic action, you find your role as a player diminished since you start a level lower.
ECOM
02-03-05, 08:56 AM Current method
Use level that the charicter would have been if raised, use dmg wealth

Method used when i expect ether a higher rate of pc death due to a harsher world or a high rate of missing players.

Each player will make 3-5 charicters
One charicter is active
the other to are inactive
the player can switch charicters at the start of a sesion when in town or other populated place
the player can distribute among the inactive charicters an amount of xp and wealth equal to what the active charicter earned.
New charicters are made at start Level (i use 1st or 3rd)
Charicters can be retired and replaced with one 2 levels lower then the one retired (the level loss is to limit abuse and i sometimes will reduce the penalty depending on why the charicter is being retired)

this method has some benifits
1. players will have a charicter ready if there active charicter dies
2. if too many players don't show the game can be suspended and another game(one shot) can be had using the alternate charicters.

Disadvanteges
Players tend to get less attatched to the charicters.
ck2001wendt
02-03-05, 09:02 AM At low levels (1-7 or so), when a character dies and the player wants to bring in a new character, I set them at -2 levels. At medium levels I set them at 10,000 XP below the party average. At high levels the penalty becomes 20,000.

When a new player joins, I halve these calculations.

I do this for two reasons.

1. Players should be rewarded for effort: A player who changes characters every few weeks when new books come out should be dissuaded from that behavior, as it hurts the overall campaign.

2. Players should be rewarded for longevity: Players who have been in the campaign for a year should get a marginal advantage over brand-new characters, who have gotten tens of thousands of "free" XP and free GP without risk.
Talon Blackhart
02-03-05, 10:36 AM Generally, I look at how the character died before I make any decisions.

If the death was caused by something "normal" and not-stupid, I'll go with -1 level and a partial amount (usually about 70%) of average wealth. The less wealth is because if they get to pick the items they take, they'll have better stuff than if they had to loot it all from places.

If the death was caused by something stupid ("I know there's a trap there, the rogue is disarming it, but I'm too impatient to wait a few more seconds so I grab the chest and run." [This actually happened in my campaign...] ), then I usually penalize more heavily. -2 or -3 levels, a lot less wealth (closer to 40%).

Also, if the player got his character killed intentionally (to get a new character ["I'm bored with my mage, I want to play something else, so I'm going to get into a fist fight with a barbarian".] ), I also penalize, about the same as "stupidity-caused" deaths.

Just my way of getting my players to fight smart and play smart.

:evillaugh :schemes:
Thailfi
02-03-05, 10:57 AM In our campaign new character starting level = 1st without exception (except when we played Dark Sun back in 2e, then it was starting level = 3rd).

We just think if you have a 7th level character you need to have time invested in the character to work out its personality as well as having an emotional investment in the character. Character death should suck, not be just an excuse to dump a character so you can role up a new character with this neat new prestige class you just read about.

That is why we invest in character trees. I have been playing for 24 years and I have around 18 active characters ranging from 1st level to epic. All started at first level and if I lose one for good it really stinks, but I am not done playing as I can pull in another one of similiar level.
pres_man
02-03-05, 10:59 AM Usually I treat their new character the same as their old character, -1 level. This is because in my game xp is based on the player and not the character.

Yet I don't have to worry about people commiting suicide in my games because I allow them to have the character leave and come in with a new character of the same level (basically this is what a character is doing if they want to switch after a death). Players should be allowed to have fun. For some, it is developing a character overtime, for others it is playing a certain concept until it "perfected" and then switching to another.
Habronicus
02-03-05, 11:17 AM I hate PC death. When I was a young GM, I'd go out of my way to keep them alive... but, then again, my players were new at RPGs, much like me. It worked surprisingly well, though, as some of NPCs which "suddenly" appeared to save day often became quite liked by the group.

All my campaigns end up being epic stories (it just happens, sue me) so if I let a new character show up and be "as good" as the others who've been at it longer, I feel that it steals the PC's importance. In other words, a new character always starts at level 1. This is not really a problem for me because they go up in level quickly and I find it realistic for a high-level party to fight low-level battles more often than high-level ones. Notice that in most RPG campaigns, a 10+ level group never sees a Goblin or Kobold - they just disappear from the face of the earth, somehow.

Anyway, another GM I once knew had a different approach:
- If a character died by "accident" (luck of the dice), then he'd allow a new character at -1 level than his previous character.
- If the player was overwhelmed by the odds (GM mistake), he'd allow a new character with the exact same level and experience.
- If the player acted dumb, he'd have to start at level 1. Period.

The way I see it, as long as the playing group agrees with the method, then it's all good.
Lord Ian Stark
02-03-05, 11:25 AM If a character dies in our party they make a new one at same level. Now if they are in a dungeon of sorts the new character was prisoner and either has no gear or they have to go get it by finding it.

Otherwise the character is just another adventurer that crosses the path of the party at the right time.

Death happens in my party's but they usually can ressurect them by a scroll or church. I tend to throw some bad stuff at the party sometimes and well if they die it's usually my fault.

Now if they WANTED there character to die I manage to ressurect them ala a reincarnation spell or some other negative effect.
El Salvador
02-03-05, 11:44 AM I've never had this problem, as my PC's started dying when they were supposed to; when they could ressurect themselves.

If it were to happen, I'd have the player use a character that will have joined the party as they try to get the old character ressurected. I'd never consider putting them at a lower level, because that wouldn't be fun for the player, and the point of the game is to have fun. I'd give them full equipment, because the npc would leave when the old pc got ressurected. The npc would, as he or she left, give a gift to the party equal to his share of the treasure the party gained before ressurecting the old pc. This seems to be the only fair way to solve the problem.
Zym
02-03-05, 12:13 PM IOC if a character dies or the player decides they no longer desire to play the character (not to be a frequent occurance), we let them create a new character one level lower than the lowest level PC or current level minus one, whichever is worse.

With 3.5 XP system they catch up fairly fast and we haven't really had any problems to date (2 character and 2 cohort deaths - party is 10-11th level atm).

We're a low magic/rare psionic campaign so all NPC/PC's regardless avail only half-cash values and have limited magic/psionic item selection.
sollmn
02-03-05, 12:54 PM One alternative meathod of starting wealth I've used is to actually roll it randomly. Let's say they should, by DMG, start with 36,000 gold. I roll random magic items, subtracting from the 36k. If I roll up something that would take them negative, I do not give them the item, and I stop rolling; they get the remaining gold value as silver, gold, platinum and gems. Then i let them "sell" anything they got by random for half price, and buy anything else at full price. This gives them a sense of a past. Also, sometimes its fun when a new character accidentally brings in a bag of tricks, even if it wouldn't normally be something they'd purchase.
fistanthius
02-03-05, 02:13 PM If they start a new character in an ongoing campaign, I'll set his level 1 less than his previous, because thats the level he would be if he got raised. Otherwise, whats the point on raising your character, they'll just write up an identical character w/out any penalty.
fistanthius
02-03-05, 02:14 PM If they start a new character in an ongoing campaign, I'll set his level 1 less than his previous, because thats the level he would be if he got raised. Otherwise, whats the point on raising your character, they'll just write up an identical character w/out any penalty. If you take away the penalty of dying, then nobody is afraid of dying and battles become less exciting. The game dulls and everyon will stop playing...and then the world will come to an end.
Zym
02-03-05, 03:06 PM One alternative meathod of starting wealth I've used is to actually roll it randomly....

Nice idea, something I may suggest/try out in a few ventures.
UltimateReality
02-03-05, 05:21 PM Now if they WANTED there character to die I manage to ressurect them ala a reincarnation spell or some other negative effect.

...

With this spell, you bring back a dead creature in another body, provided that its death occurred no more than one week before the casting of the spell and the subject’s soul is free and willing to return. If the subject’s soul is not willing to return, the spell does not work

Emphasis mine. I'd wager that if a player killed off their PC they would simply state the PC didn't want to return and thus any attempts at ressurection, reincarnation, etc. would automatically fail.

To force someone's character to be ressurected is bad DMing -- it railroads them into playing a person they will undoubtedly get killed again and again. If a DM did this to my character I would quit the campaign right there.

If you make them return as NPC BBEGs however.... :evillaugh (Note: this works best when you discuss it with the player who killed off the char and swear them to secrecy from the rest of the group.)

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
srkingdavy 02-03-05, 05:50 AM	A character dies after weeks or years of play. For whatever reason, the other PCs cannot get him raised... but the player wants to keep going and make a new character This is one aspect of the game that every DM seems to handle differently, so I was wondering what you guys do. Personally, I say the new player makes a character with a level of the lower of these two: (previous level - 1) (Average party level - 1) Some DMs say the new character always has to be first level. others say the new character is one level below what he was before, some say two below. how about you guys? how do you handle non-ressurectable PC death and new characters?
Saurenda 02-03-05, 06:00 AM	I've never understood why some other Dm's wanted new characters to start below the party level. When a character dies in my campagin, and they cannot be rezzed or raised they start at the party level or the character's previous level. But with half character wealth. :P That way if the character doesn't seem to work out, the party does not continually help itself to the new character's things, or the character itself does a minimal amount of damage to the party. Starting every new character at level one is silly. I don't think I'll ask a player to do that if the party average is above one. Penalizing them for death is fine, paralyzing them for the rest of game play so that they cannot act makes it unusual the party would allow someone so weak to join at all. I cannot see a party of 3 12th level adventures letting a level 1 join for any reason.
Derren S. 02-03-05, 06:33 AM	Either level -1 or level -2, depending on the players and how I rule starting gold/equipment in the campaign.
der_gogo 02-03-05, 06:35 AM	We usually let them make a new Character at lvl -1. If he was ressurected he would have also lost a level, so this is ok. The new character has the average starting wealth of this level - which I don't think is a good thing. The equipment is much better if you can just choose what you want to have instead of having to loot it...
penchant 02-03-05, 07:32 AM	Roleplaying is not a win or lose situation, so a PC dying should not feel like it. Unless a Player is experiencing 'excessive' PC deaths I start them at the lowest in the party with minimum xp. They may not have the best starting gear, but if you strip them and make them a lower level, you are just setting them up for another quick death. I had a character die in a DM's game who believed in starting people off with half levels and no magic. That Cavalier couldn't even keep up with the party rogue in combat and died after a few sessions. Especially when his class requires him to attack the biggest threat. Dying is not losing and I won't penalize you for doing so. I will reward players for being good sports. I just killed a party member last session with a cockatrice. He was a good sport about it and I let him start at higher than minimum xp as well as starting with a magic item equal to the one he lost on the old character.
VerinBlod 02-03-05, 07:42 AM	If characters can't be brought back from death they can start at -1 level and they have full starting gear appropriate for their level.
Burgundy Lotus 02-03-05, 07:50 AM	The new character starts at one level below the lowest level in the party. This means a loss of 1 or 2 levels, or none if they were already the lowest level.
Black Kitten 02-03-05, 08:51 AM	When I DM no-one should start a level lower, since I always have them walking a tightrope between life and death. It's logical that with a high chance of death by my choice, I also limit the penalties. I just think it's not fun that if your character dies because of a heroic action, you find your role as a player diminished since you start a level lower.
ECOM 02-03-05, 08:56 AM	Current method Use level that the charicter would have been if raised, use dmg wealth Method used when i expect ether a higher rate of pc death due to a harsher world or a high rate of missing players. Each player will make 3-5 charicters One charicter is active the other to are inactive the player can switch charicters at the start of a sesion when in town or other populated place the player can distribute among the inactive charicters an amount of xp and wealth equal to what the active charicter earned. New charicters are made at start Level (i use 1st or 3rd) Charicters can be retired and replaced with one 2 levels lower then the one retired (the level loss is to limit abuse and i sometimes will reduce the penalty depending on why the charicter is being retired) this method has some benifits 1. players will have a charicter ready if there active charicter dies 2. if too many players don't show the game can be suspended and another game(one shot) can be had using the alternate charicters. Disadvanteges Players tend to get less attatched to the charicters.
ck2001wendt 02-03-05, 09:02 AM	At low levels (1-7 or so), when a character dies and the player wants to bring in a new character, I set them at -2 levels. At medium levels I set them at 10,000 XP below the party average. At high levels the penalty becomes 20,000. When a new player joins, I halve these calculations. I do this for two reasons. 1. Players should be rewarded for effort: A player who changes characters every few weeks when new books come out should be dissuaded from that behavior, as it hurts the overall campaign. 2. Players should be rewarded for longevity: Players who have been in the campaign for a year should get a marginal advantage over brand-new characters, who have gotten tens of thousands of "free" XP and free GP without risk.
Talon Blackhart 02-03-05, 10:36 AM	Generally, I look at how the character died before I make any decisions. If the death was caused by something "normal" and not-stupid, I'll go with -1 level and a partial amount (usually about 70%) of average wealth. The less wealth is because if they get to pick the items they take, they'll have better stuff than if they had to loot it all from places. If the death was caused by something stupid ("I know there's a trap there, the rogue is disarming it, but I'm too impatient to wait a few more seconds so I grab the chest and run." [This actually happened in my campaign...] ), then I usually penalize more heavily. -2 or -3 levels, a lot less wealth (closer to 40%). Also, if the player got his character killed intentionally (to get a new character ["I'm bored with my mage, I want to play something else, so I'm going to get into a fist fight with a barbarian".] ), I also penalize, about the same as "stupidity-caused" deaths. Just my way of getting my players to fight smart and play smart. :evillaugh :schemes:
Thailfi 02-03-05, 10:57 AM	In our campaign new character starting level = 1st without exception (except when we played Dark Sun back in 2e, then it was starting level = 3rd). We just think if you have a 7th level character you need to have time invested in the character to work out its personality as well as having an emotional investment in the character. Character death should suck, not be just an excuse to dump a character so you can role up a new character with this neat new prestige class you just read about. That is why we invest in character trees. I have been playing for 24 years and I have around 18 active characters ranging from 1st level to epic. All started at first level and if I lose one for good it really stinks, but I am not done playing as I can pull in another one of similiar level.
pres_man 02-03-05, 10:59 AM	Usually I treat their new character the same as their old character, -1 level. This is because in my game xp is based on the player and not the character. Yet I don't have to worry about people commiting suicide in my games because I allow them to have the character leave and come in with a new character of the same level (basically this is what a character is doing if they want to switch after a death). Players should be allowed to have fun. For some, it is developing a character overtime, for others it is playing a certain concept until it "perfected" and then switching to another.
Habronicus 02-03-05, 11:17 AM	I hate PC death. When I was a young GM, I'd go out of my way to keep them alive... but, then again, my players were new at RPGs, much like me. It worked surprisingly well, though, as some of NPCs which "suddenly" appeared to save day often became quite liked by the group. All my campaigns end up being epic stories (it just happens, sue me) so if I let a new character show up and be "as good" as the others who've been at it longer, I feel that it steals the PC's importance. In other words, a new character always starts at level 1. This is not really a problem for me because they go up in level quickly and I find it realistic for a high-level party to fight low-level battles more often than high-level ones. Notice that in most RPG campaigns, a 10+ level group never sees a Goblin or Kobold - they just disappear from the face of the earth, somehow. Anyway, another GM I once knew had a different approach: - If a character died by "accident" (luck of the dice), then he'd allow a new character at -1 level than his previous character. - If the player was overwhelmed by the odds (GM mistake), he'd allow a new character with the exact same level and experience. - If the player acted dumb, he'd have to start at level 1. Period. The way I see it, as long as the playing group agrees with the method, then it's all good.
Lord Ian Stark 02-03-05, 11:25 AM	If a character dies in our party they make a new one at same level. Now if they are in a dungeon of sorts the new character was prisoner and either has no gear or they have to go get it by finding it. Otherwise the character is just another adventurer that crosses the path of the party at the right time. Death happens in my party's but they usually can ressurect them by a scroll or church. I tend to throw some bad stuff at the party sometimes and well if they die it's usually my fault. Now if they WANTED there character to die I manage to ressurect them ala a reincarnation spell or some other negative effect.
El Salvador 02-03-05, 11:44 AM	I've never had this problem, as my PC's started dying when they were supposed to; when they could ressurect themselves. If it were to happen, I'd have the player use a character that will have joined the party as they try to get the old character ressurected. I'd never consider putting them at a lower level, because that wouldn't be fun for the player, and the point of the game is to have fun. I'd give them full equipment, because the npc would leave when the old pc got ressurected. The npc would, as he or she left, give a gift to the party equal to his share of the treasure the party gained before ressurecting the old pc. This seems to be the only fair way to solve the problem.
Zym 02-03-05, 12:13 PM	IOC if a character dies or the player decides they no longer desire to play the character (not to be a frequent occurance), we let them create a new character one level lower than the lowest level PC or current level minus one, whichever is worse. With 3.5 XP system they catch up fairly fast and we haven't really had any problems to date (2 character and 2 cohort deaths - party is 10-11th level atm). We're a low magic/rare psionic campaign so all NPC/PC's regardless avail only half-cash values and have limited magic/psionic item selection.
sollmn 02-03-05, 12:54 PM	One alternative meathod of starting wealth I've used is to actually roll it randomly. Let's say they should, by DMG, start with 36,000 gold. I roll random magic items, subtracting from the 36k. If I roll up something that would take them negative, I do not give them the item, and I stop rolling; they get the remaining gold value as silver, gold, platinum and gems. Then i let them "sell" anything they got by random for half price, and buy anything else at full price. This gives them a sense of a past. Also, sometimes its fun when a new character accidentally brings in a bag of tricks, even if it wouldn't normally be something they'd purchase.
fistanthius 02-03-05, 02:13 PM	If they start a new character in an ongoing campaign, I'll set his level 1 less than his previous, because thats the level he would be if he got raised. Otherwise, whats the point on raising your character, they'll just write up an identical character w/out any penalty.
fistanthius 02-03-05, 02:14 PM	If they start a new character in an ongoing campaign, I'll set his level 1 less than his previous, because thats the level he would be if he got raised. Otherwise, whats the point on raising your character, they'll just write up an identical character w/out any penalty. If you take away the penalty of dying, then nobody is afraid of dying and battles become less exciting. The game dulls and everyon will stop playing...and then the world will come to an end.
Zym 02-03-05, 03:06 PM	One alternative meathod of starting wealth I've used is to actually roll it randomly.... Nice idea, something I may suggest/try out in a few ventures.
UltimateReality 02-03-05, 05:21 PM	Now if they WANTED there character to die I manage to ressurect them ala a reincarnation spell or some other negative effect. ... With this spell, you bring back a dead creature in another body, provided that its death occurred no more than one week before the casting of the spell and the subject’s soul is free and willing to return. If the subject’s soul is not willing to return, the spell does not work Emphasis mine. I'd wager that if a player killed off their PC they would simply state the PC didn't want to return and thus any attempts at ressurection, reincarnation, etc. would automatically fail. To force someone's character to be ressurected is bad DMing -- it railroads them into playing a person they will undoubtedly get killed again and again. If a DM did this to my character I would quit the campaign right there. If you make them return as NPC BBEGs however.... :evillaugh (Note: this works best when you discuss it with the player who killed off the char and swear them to secrecy from the rest of the group.)