Post/Author/DateTime	Post
mastroyo 03-21-05, 07:16 PM	Well, as the title says, a PC of mine wants a Hengeyokai in my new campaign. I don't know much about it, but he owns the book and is going to lend it to me soon. What do you think I should do, considering I'll have a drow and a semi-drow in my campaign also. They'll start at low levels (3rd i guess for the drows LA+2..), but I want to hear about your experiences with this kind of character... Thanks... Posted it also in Classes and Prestige clases, sorry, but i really need an answer...!!!
Frostwind 03-21-05, 07:24 PM	I really don't think you should allow something in your campaingn you don't know about. Btw whats an Hengeyokai. I had never heard about it before.
Salla 03-21-05, 07:46 PM	A Hengeyokai is a shapechanger from the Oriental Adventures setting; they have a human form, an animal form, and a hybrid form. They have no LA (as of the Dragon magazine update). They don't have any truly weird abilities like Spell Resistance or the like. It's ... a standard PC race. If you allow 'monster' PCs like drow, I can't see a reason not to admit a Hengeyokai.
Megrim_Lord 03-21-05, 07:50 PM	Hengeyokai are intelligent shapeshifting animals basically. They are an LA +1 race with an animal form (functions as polymorph self essentially) a human form (essentially a normal human, but none of the racial benefits) and a hybrid form (human form w/ a few animal traits, essentially provides a few speed or skill based perks and a +2 bonus to one ability while they're in that form). They also suffers various limitations in these forms and they are of the shapechanger subtype. They are typically an oriental esque concept of creature, however they could be changed to be little more than a Lesser AnimalWere (Not WereAnimal, i.e difference between a Werewolf and a Wolfwere) if the oriental flavor doesn't fit your world. They are fairly balanced compared to some races now present in 3.5, so I'd take a good look at it, and don't be too hasty in turning it away.
Megrim_Lord 03-21-05, 07:51 PM	A Hengeyokai is a shapechanger from the Oriental Adventures setting; they have a human form, an animal form, and a hybrid form. They have no LA (as of the Dragon magazine update). They don't have any truly weird abilities like Spell Resistance or the like. It's ... a standard PC race. If you allow 'monster' PCs like drow, I can't see a reason not to admit a Hengeyokai. beat me to it, but I like my analysis better :P
Frostwind 03-21-05, 08:41 PM	hmm, i was thinking about an high ECL race like trolls, or ogres. If it really is not that powerful, there's no reason why you should not accept it (unless you do not see yourself DMing in a campaign with that race of course). I think I'm gonna borrow my friend's Oriental Adventure this Week-End just to have a look on it.
Megrim_Lord 03-21-05, 09:33 PM	hmm, i was thinking about an high ECL race like trolls, or ogres. If it really is not that powerful, there's no reason why you should not accept it (unless you do not see yourself DMing in a campaign with that race of course). I think I'm gonna borrow my friend's Oriental Adventure this Week-End just to have a look on it. and whats wrong with trolls and ogres? as long as your playing a high enough level campaign, I should hope the answer is nothing... :)
Reverend_Doyle 03-22-05, 12:53 AM	Well, originally I was going to say, "tell the player no." and leave it at that. Hengeyokai are shape shifters and that has the potential to unbalance the game. I'm always having players wanting me to let them be something like that. I have one player who always wants to be a half-dragon. I think NOT. However, if two other players are going to have Drow blood pumping through their veins, I say let the player be a hengeyokai. The Rev
Salla 03-22-05, 01:09 AM	Well, originally I was going to say, "tell the player no." and leave it at that. Hengeyokai are shape shifters and that has the potential to unbalance the game. I'm always having players wanting me to let them be something like that. I have one player who always wants to be a half-dragon. I think NOT. However, if two other players are going to have Drow blood pumping through their veins, I say let the player be a hengeyokai. The Rev Maybe it's just me, but I can't see how turning into a crab throws off game balance. If they were like Doppelgangers, or had Polymorph, then yeah ... but it's just human-hybrid-animal (and always the same human-hybrid-animal).
MortalPlague 03-22-05, 02:52 AM	Maybe it's just me, but I can't see how turning into a crab throws off game balance. If they were like Doppelgangers, or had Polymorph, then yeah ... but it's just human-hybrid-animal (and always the same human-hybrid-animal). Well, yes, but say they pick something a little more potent than a crab. Like an eagle. Suddenly, they can turn into an eagle and fly. This brings up some interesting potential problems... Or a wolf. They gain substantial speed bonuses, and gain a couple of interesting attacks as well, like the wolf's auto-trip. There are potential imbalances there. PS: I haven't seen the class myself, so some of my post might be wrong.
weasel fierce 03-22-05, 03:29 AM	Does your campaign world have hengeyokai in it ? Or are there mysterious and so far, unexplored areas where they could lurk ? Maybe they already walk amongst us, but have not yet been revealed ? plenty of interesting options, if you do choose to allow it
deduke 03-22-05, 04:32 AM	Just watch out when they want to take the warshaper prestige class from complete warrior. it is pretty strong with a +0 LA shapechanger race. For the rest of it i wouldnt worry to much about such a race (although i dont allow any Oriental stuff in my campaign because it just doesnt fit my world) regards deDuke
GiskardR 03-22-05, 04:45 AM	Give it to him! Use a +1 LA and do not permit too umbalanced animals (like a Bear or too strong animals). Talk to the entire party and if ALL them are ok... well that's the game, every one need his fun! Simply tell your friend that you need your fun too and for that reason you don't want some animals but you can use some other to mantain the balance.
sooperspook 03-22-05, 04:56 AM	Actually they're a LA 0 race. since that dragon mag update anyway. and they can only turn into a Small or Tiny sized animal or a hybrid (which is Medium). they can only change a certain number of times per day depending on level. they're still humanoids , just with the shapechanger subtype. and theres a set list of what kind of animal they can become, once its chosen ...no changing. as for a Warshaper Hengenyokai, weell i wouldn't worry too much. so they get a +4 str. on a sparrow what difference does it make? even if they stay in hybrid form, theres no way they can just walk into town like that. although if you've got drow and 1/2 drow the hengenyokai is going to be the least of your problems!
Frostwind 03-22-05, 06:51 AM	and whats wrong with trolls and ogres? as long as your playing a high enough level campaign, I should hope the answer is nothing... :) I actually have no problems with them if you spoke with your DM before chosing that race. If you did they are actually very cool :).
The Shaman 03-22-05, 09:05 AM	Hengeyokai were one of the player character races in our threepointoh campaign - in terms of the shapechanging ability, think of it as a druid who can wildshape into a single, usually much less powerful animal form. I did not use "oriental" trappings with the hengeyokai in my game-world - instead they represented an "elder race," created by a goddess of nature as an intermediary between animals and humans. They were rare and secretive. The player who ran the hengeyokai character in our game used her ability to change form in order to scout ahead of the party. It offered her no real advantages otherwise, but it made for excellent roleplay. In short, if you're worried about munchkinicity, I'd be much more concerned about the drow...
mastroyo 03-22-05, 10:30 AM	In short, if you're worried about munchkinicity, I'd be much more concerned about the drow... I am more concerned about the drow, after reading these posts... I wish i could find a post regarding drow, but the search has been not operational for weeks... But... I can always kill the drow... :D (just kidding)
Mirikon 03-22-05, 12:13 PM	My advice? If you aren't very familiar with it, don't allow it. You could even tell the player that you're not comfortable allowing something in the campaign that you're unfamiliar with at this time. Tell him you'll look over the race, and perhaps later on in the campaign allow him to play one.
Evil Wizard 03-22-05, 03:48 PM	Since they're now humanoids with a subtype, the usually array of spells that affect core races affect them too, which knocks their LA down to 0. Having seen the rules on them myself, I can safely say they're not unbalancing in the least. Their sole racial trait is the shapeshifting into an animal form, and a hybrid form which gives them a minor boost to one stat. Humans are mechanically better, honestly, even though hengeyokai are cooler. Okay, the Warshaper PrC throws a wrench into things, but that's not the hengeyokai's fault. Just disallow it or push the requirements up a little higher, and you'll be set.
snowlynx 03-28-05, 01:16 PM	Take the race as is and it's really not that powerful...Hengeyokai have limited shifting ability, and can only shift so many times per day, depending on level, and I suspect it is a pain to be stuck as a puny little cat or some other tiny creature as the rest of the group gets into a combat situation. They don't quite seem worth the +1 level adjustment presented in the OA book, but I would be hesitant to make them a +0 race (due to their ability to get around certain obstacles and challenges effortlessly- a sparrow's ability to fly, a carp's ability to breathe underwater and escape, any of the creatures abilities to just shapeshift to fit between bars or manacles.) You will have to consider two things- the first is what abilities they pick up on when shapeshifted into an animal (hasn't polymorph changed in 3.5, or am I wrong about this)? You will also need to make sure they stick to the rules about what animal is chosen ("no, you cannot be a hengeyokai dire lion.") I actuall don't see any problem with allowing a hengeyokai of some other type then the admitted list into a group, but I would have to adjust the ECL to account for the increased usefulness of the form if a player wanted this. I suppose the last pert you have to think about is how hengeyokai fit into your setting. If they don't fit, your answer should be "NO!"