A poll kinda [Archive] - Wizards Community

A poll kinda [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Dragon_loving_DM
11-01-05, 05:17 PM I just want some thoughts on this before I go ahead and do this...

in starting a new dungeon with a select group of people the topic came up on when exp comes into play. THe meaning of this was should we count exp at the end of the campain or should it be instantly given. Meaning that after all is said and done they can level up or...should they get to level up in the middle of the campain but at the end of and between each session...your thoughts please.
prettyripples
11-01-05, 05:26 PM By the book, I think they get the xp at the moment they earn it. However, that's a pretty inconvenient way of doing it (as people might level up at any, awkward time and slow the game down).

The 4 basic ways:

i) When they earn it
ii) Session's end
iii) When they return to town
iv) Adventure's end (NOT campaign).

Then there are also issues about needing 'training', for example if the DM has house-ruled that you need a teacher for the first level of a multiclass.

Personally, I use (ii). I wouldn't recommend (i), but I can see the point in (iv) - it makes it easier to plan adventures if you know the PCs won't be levelling up.
rbrt_Spade
11-01-05, 05:43 PM i normaly just level them up and give ex at the end of the adventure. a dm in my local area my old friend used to play for would let you level up and give ex just when you earn it.
you could be fighting a balor in a epic clash of spells and swords when a pc, gains a level in the middle of the game. its a problem to do it in the middle of the game with 3e, the player choicing skill ranks,feats,gear,prcs,etc. i would recommend to just do it at the end as the dmg recommends.
Kendrick
11-01-05, 05:48 PM I'd suggest giving XP out at the end of each session unless the players would be able to level in the middle of a session. If they had earned enough XP to level in the middle of a session, I'd give it to them then if they wanted to go ahead and try to level up. Then, I would recommend you require a day minimum of effort training and so on to level up.
ashcat_lt
11-01-05, 05:54 PM I'm kind of still in old-school mode where the characters needed time to reflect and consider the ramifications of their new experiences before they actually gained the xp. That meant xp was handed out after adventures, usually after the group had returned to a safe place for a little while.

Because of the whole deal of item creation and some spell-casting costing xp in 3.x I'm thinking that the next campaign i run may give out xp a little more often, but I'll have to keep track of it to make sure that people aren't leveling up at a point where the real-time involved would interfere with the storyline.

you could be fighting a balor in a epic clash of spells and swords when a pc, gains a level in the middle of the game. its a problem to do it in the middle of the game with 3e, the player choicing skill ranks,feats,gear,prcs,etc. i would recommend to just do it at the end as the dmg recommends.

bold added for emphasis.

I want to know how in gehenna you're going to be choosing gear in the middle of a battle. This is absolutely ridiculous. No character gets gear simply for leveling up. It doesn't happen. The character wealth tables in the DMG are suggested guidelines meant for DM's to estimate the amount of treasure they award during adventures. The only way a character gets new gear is to either pick it up while adventuring (find treasure) or go to town and buy it. If you're fighting a balor and level up, fine, but you don't automatically get equipment equal to the gp listed on the table for your new level!
rbrt_Spade
11-01-05, 06:01 PM yes, becuase the dm rewrote the whole dnd system and made 2e & 3e into one. it was nuts. when you leveled up,you would get a certain amount of gp to buy gear with. for example, you got 15gp i can buy a longsword and have it. its just the way he ran his games. my friend had fun,that all what counts.
Dragon_loving_DM
11-02-05, 03:59 PM So it would be generally agreed that I should dole out exp at the end of each session. In following with the natural flow of things how would it be explained that they got stronger suddenly. me thinks I'll just go with they get exp when they return to a safe haven, like someone suggested eariler. Thanks a bunch guys... :)
Sulaco
11-02-05, 04:14 PM I give XP at the end of each session and then handle all levelling up before the next session begins. If someone hits a break-point during a session I generally allow them to level up immediately as long as it is a "simple" level-up (no new feats, ability increases, etc.).
Chobemaster
11-02-05, 04:20 PM XP is a meta-game concept anyway. I do it at the end of sessions or between major missions/adventures for administrative convenience's sake more than anything...I want to have an accurate list of challenges overcome, and which players were present when they were overcome...if you try to wait until the end of a 8-session adventure, you're going to get crossed up somewhere along the way.
ashcat_lt
11-02-05, 04:53 PM This question depends a lot on the experience level of your players as well as the amount of time you have between actual sessions to do level-ups.

The last group I played with was mostly new players, and it was actually the first 3.x game for all of us. It actually took at least one whole session (6-8hr)for everybody to get levelled up. The sorceror was usually the worst because she had so many spells to choose from and so few slots to put them in (and no idea what any of them did, being a total newb). Believe it or not, the fighter was next worst because he didn't really like to read, and had to go through the entire list of bonus feats every two levels, hemming and hawing and going back and forth. I've been playing for two decades and would actually plan a few levels in advance, so I could level up in about five minutes and then help everybody else go step by step through everything.

"Okay, roll your hit points..."

In this situation you will definetely want to keep your xp awards to a minimum. Try to wait until you know everybody is going to level up and there will be a good RL break in the action. Actually, even if you're in the middle of an adventure it might be best to do the level up when, say, somebody can't make a session and rather than play without them or cancel altogether you can level up everybody else and get with the other player before the next full-party session.

On the other hand, if your players have been doing this for a while and have planned ahead - doing independent research between sessions, or even plotting out their levels ahead of time - it shouldn't take more than a couple of minutes and could be handled at the end of each session, or during a break in a long session. As long as you can hand out xp at the end of a session and have everybody come back next time ready to play you will be fine.

How do you reconcile people getting better instantaneously? Well, it happens in movies and books all the time. I would suggest that you not allow anybody to take level 1 of anything, or ranks in new skills (ones they don't have ranks in already), or feats from new trees without having some time to train.

Don't allow "book-casters" to get new spells without finding them one way or another and taking the appropriate time and care to learn them. They may be able to cast more of the spells they already know instantly, but it takes study to learn any new spells.

Divine casters, on the other hand (shugenja aside) are granted spells by their deities when they are deemed ready and worthy - a function of experience. They can get access to any new spells slots or levels as soon as they have a chance to do their daily meditations.

Sorcs and warlocks are unlocking their hidden potential. The way I look at it, they basically already have a prescribed set of spells (even if the player doesn't know what it is yet) which they will eventually be able to cast. Every time they channel the magic energy through themselves they learn a little more and become more in-tune. I might actually allow these folks to gain new spells in the middle of an encounter. "I didn't know I could do that!" This I think helps even out the difference between sorcs and wizards. Bards might be included in this group as well, or you could insist that they have time to either learn or write new "songs" before they can cast them.

I guess this kind of goes against what I said in my earlier post, but I've read a couple other threads on this topic since, considered the arguments, and thought it over a bit more.

I don't think there is any right way to do it. Whichever way feels most natural and - most importantly - is least disruptive to your game should work just fine for you. Take some of the suggestions above and elsewhere on the boards, talk them over with your players, consider their (player) experience, and decide what you think will work best. Try it that way. If it doesn't work out for one reason or another, work with your players to come up with a better plan.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Dragon_loving_DM 11-01-05, 05:17 PM	I just want some thoughts on this before I go ahead and do this... in starting a new dungeon with a select group of people the topic came up on when exp comes into play. THe meaning of this was should we count exp at the end of the campain or should it be instantly given. Meaning that after all is said and done they can level up or...should they get to level up in the middle of the campain but at the end of and between each session...your thoughts please.
prettyripples 11-01-05, 05:26 PM	By the book, I think they get the xp at the moment they earn it. However, that's a pretty inconvenient way of doing it (as people might level up at any, awkward time and slow the game down). The 4 basic ways: i) When they earn it ii) Session's end iii) When they return to town iv) Adventure's end (NOT campaign). Then there are also issues about needing 'training', for example if the DM has house-ruled that you need a teacher for the first level of a multiclass. Personally, I use (ii). I wouldn't recommend (i), but I can see the point in (iv) - it makes it easier to plan adventures if you know the PCs won't be levelling up.
rbrt_Spade 11-01-05, 05:43 PM	i normaly just level them up and give ex at the end of the adventure. a dm in my local area my old friend used to play for would let you level up and give ex just when you earn it. you could be fighting a balor in a epic clash of spells and swords when a pc, gains a level in the middle of the game. its a problem to do it in the middle of the game with 3e, the player choicing skill ranks,feats,gear,prcs,etc. i would recommend to just do it at the end as the dmg recommends.
Kendrick 11-01-05, 05:48 PM	I'd suggest giving XP out at the end of each session unless the players would be able to level in the middle of a session. If they had earned enough XP to level in the middle of a session, I'd give it to them then if they wanted to go ahead and try to level up. Then, I would recommend you require a day minimum of effort training and so on to level up.
ashcat_lt 11-01-05, 05:54 PM	I'm kind of still in old-school mode where the characters needed time to reflect and consider the ramifications of their new experiences before they actually gained the xp. That meant xp was handed out after adventures, usually after the group had returned to a safe place for a little while. Because of the whole deal of item creation and some spell-casting costing xp in 3.x I'm thinking that the next campaign i run may give out xp a little more often, but I'll have to keep track of it to make sure that people aren't leveling up at a point where the real-time involved would interfere with the storyline. you could be fighting a balor in a epic clash of spells and swords when a pc, gains a level in the middle of the game. its a problem to do it in the middle of the game with 3e, the player choicing skill ranks,feats,gear,prcs,etc. i would recommend to just do it at the end as the dmg recommends. bold added for emphasis. I want to know how in gehenna you're going to be choosing gear in the middle of a battle. This is absolutely ridiculous. No character gets gear simply for leveling up. It doesn't happen. The character wealth tables in the DMG are suggested guidelines meant for DM's to estimate the amount of treasure they award during adventures. The only way a character gets new gear is to either pick it up while adventuring (find treasure) or go to town and buy it. If you're fighting a balor and level up, fine, but you don't automatically get equipment equal to the gp listed on the table for your new level!
rbrt_Spade 11-01-05, 06:01 PM	yes, becuase the dm rewrote the whole dnd system and made 2e & 3e into one. it was nuts. when you leveled up,you would get a certain amount of gp to buy gear with. for example, you got 15gp i can buy a longsword and have it. its just the way he ran his games. my friend had fun,that all what counts.
Dragon_loving_DM 11-02-05, 03:59 PM	So it would be generally agreed that I should dole out exp at the end of each session. In following with the natural flow of things how would it be explained that they got stronger suddenly. me thinks I'll just go with they get exp when they return to a safe haven, like someone suggested eariler. Thanks a bunch guys... :)
Sulaco 11-02-05, 04:14 PM	I give XP at the end of each session and then handle all levelling up before the next session begins. If someone hits a break-point during a session I generally allow them to level up immediately as long as it is a "simple" level-up (no new feats, ability increases, etc.).
Chobemaster 11-02-05, 04:20 PM	XP is a meta-game concept anyway. I do it at the end of sessions or between major missions/adventures for administrative convenience's sake more than anything...I want to have an accurate list of challenges overcome, and which players were present when they were overcome...if you try to wait until the end of a 8-session adventure, you're going to get crossed up somewhere along the way.
ashcat_lt 11-02-05, 04:53 PM	This question depends a lot on the experience level of your players as well as the amount of time you have between actual sessions to do level-ups. The last group I played with was mostly new players, and it was actually the first 3.x game for all of us. It actually took at least one whole session (6-8hr)for everybody to get levelled up. The sorceror was usually the worst because she had so many spells to choose from and so few slots to put them in (and no idea what any of them did, being a total newb). Believe it or not, the fighter was next worst because he didn't really like to read, and had to go through the entire list of bonus feats every two levels, hemming and hawing and going back and forth. I've been playing for two decades and would actually plan a few levels in advance, so I could level up in about five minutes and then help everybody else go step by step through everything. "Okay, roll your hit points..." In this situation you will definetely want to keep your xp awards to a minimum. Try to wait until you know everybody is going to level up and there will be a good RL break in the action. Actually, even if you're in the middle of an adventure it might be best to do the level up when, say, somebody can't make a session and rather than play without them or cancel altogether you can level up everybody else and get with the other player before the next full-party session. On the other hand, if your players have been doing this for a while and have planned ahead - doing independent research between sessions, or even plotting out their levels ahead of time - it shouldn't take more than a couple of minutes and could be handled at the end of each session, or during a break in a long session. As long as you can hand out xp at the end of a session and have everybody come back next time ready to play you will be fine. How do you reconcile people getting better instantaneously? Well, it happens in movies and books all the time. I would suggest that you not allow anybody to take level 1 of anything, or ranks in new skills (ones they don't have ranks in already), or feats from new trees without having some time to train. Don't allow "book-casters" to get new spells without finding them one way or another and taking the appropriate time and care to learn them. They may be able to cast more of the spells they already know instantly, but it takes study to learn any new spells. Divine casters, on the other hand (shugenja aside) are granted spells by their deities when they are deemed ready and worthy - a function of experience. They can get access to any new spells slots or levels as soon as they have a chance to do their daily meditations. Sorcs and warlocks are unlocking their hidden potential. The way I look at it, they basically already have a prescribed set of spells (even if the player doesn't know what it is yet) which they will eventually be able to cast. Every time they channel the magic energy through themselves they learn a little more and become more in-tune. I might actually allow these folks to gain new spells in the middle of an encounter. "I didn't know I could do that!" This I think helps even out the difference between sorcs and wizards. Bards might be included in this group as well, or you could insist that they have time to either learn or write new "songs" before they can cast them. I guess this kind of goes against what I said in my earlier post, but I've read a couple other threads on this topic since, considered the arguments, and thought it over a bit more. I don't think there is any right way to do it. Whichever way feels most natural and - most importantly - is least disruptive to your game should work just fine for you. Take some of the suggestions above and elsewhere on the boards, talk them over with your players, consider their (player) experience, and decide what you think will work best. Try it that way. If it doesn't work out for one reason or another, work with your players to come up with a better plan.