A Problem I'd Like to End [Archive] - Wizards Community

A Problem I'd Like to End [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Moradin
06-12-05, 09:14 PM This has probably come up before, because I'm sure most DMs have had this problem at some point in their histories, but I thought that I'd ask for advice regardless.

I picked up Heroes of Battle today, and was immediately flooded with inspiration and ideas for a new campaign, which I plan on starting production on tomorrow. Now, I've been through my share of campaign creating, and I have found that I absolutely love planning and creating the details of NPCs, towns, dungeons, and what have you, but when it comes down to actually playing, it's not as fun. that's not the problem. I love the actual DMing aspect as well, not just the creation. Now, the main reason I've bee through a few campaigns instead of sticking with one I really liked, is because I can never get into my own world once it is time for playing. Now, usually I never place blame for anything regarding myself on others, but I really must say that this is mainly the players' fault.

The friends I play with just never meet my expectations for gaming. And really, I don't think my expectations are high. They always go off topic, make absurd amounts of sexual innuendos, make a mockery of everything, kid around, and just plain never take anything seriously. And I soon find that all of my hours of preparation and what not gone to Hell as I find myself annoyed and aggravated. I, personally, am very big on role-playing. I am one who strongly tries to keep the 'RP' in 'RPG.' And it's not because my players don't want to roleplay or can't (because that's a worthless excuse if I ever heard one; 'I can't roleplay'), it's just the simple fact that they don't. They don't get into their characters, they don't stay in character, they don't adapt their language or actions to what character they are playing. it is just a game, but to them, I don't think they see it as a role playing game. It's all too common to see the cowardly, cautious sorcerer charge down steps into an unknown room yelling CHARGE! with quarterstaff flailing. I'm not saying that sorcerers can't beat things with their staves, but when you explicitly say your character is cautious and cowardly..

But the main problem is just the absurd mount of hysterics, humor, etc. I'm no saying a good campaign or session has to be without humor, but it gets to be a bit ridiculous when I can't get out two sentences of an NPCs thought without someone making fun of something he or she just said, interrupting with some obscene or stupid remark, doing something flat out distracting, or bringing up some random inside joke from a campaign passed. I've tried telling them to focus, tried to keep them on track, at one point I even sat everyone down and established that there would be experience penalties for being absurdly immature, never roleplaying, etc (an ultimatum I did not want to have to instate). But nothing works.

I'm very excited about this new campaign, but I have a feeling that after my preparation, it will all be for naught once again. I'm going to only have two o 3 people in this group in hopes that distractions and such will be at a minimum. I've quite frankly often times thought about quitting the whole DMing game and just stick to being a player. I've tried looking around for other players around my area, but there don't seem to be any close, and I'm already set in with a comfortable set of variant and house rules that I don't really want to sacrifice if I were to find a new group.

Any suggestions?
Gort32
06-12-05, 09:30 PM One major question: how old are you and how old are the players?
Moradin
06-12-05, 09:35 PM I am 17, and the players are all 17-18. I know at least a few of them can be mature, but for the most part, they just rarely take anything seriously.
Kintaran
06-12-05, 09:36 PM Well, sadly, if your DMing style differs so much from the expected play style, then you are ill-suited to running the game. If the players want a 'kick-in-the-door' jokefest, then forcing them to do immersive RP just will not work out well. Neither you nor the players are getting what you want out of the game. Just sit them down and tell them that it is not working out. If you cannot run such a game, then someone else will have to.

This is far from an ideal solution, but making either you or the players do a campaign style that you dislike is hardly fair. But definitely talk to your players. Maybe you can work something out.
20goingon1232
06-12-05, 09:43 PM I'm sorry, Moradin, but I have a group that is like that as well. The last session, they were so paranoid with traps that they were OOC-ing the possibility of me putting a couple gatling guns in a room with a piece of paper in it. I find it fun.

No one is serious at all, so the laughter is almost continuous. It took them 6 hours to explore a small cave complex and a 3 room tomb. But the main thing is that we had fun.

My advice is not to get caught up with the setting and everything. Don't plan as much and just roll with the situation.

Mental note to self: Put an animated nude female statue in the next game for the "Knight" to fondle......
Brandchan
06-12-05, 09:54 PM I'm now known as "popeye" to my friends because everytime they would start to go off and agervate me I would try and give them the "evil eye" but uh as you can tell it wasn't so evil. Getting the players in line is one of the hardest things to do. If they start talking about non game things then I doing something like surprize attack them, have something stolen, or some such that will bring them back to the game. If all else fails raising my voice and being like Yo people we can shot the **** some other time lets play works well.

This worked for me, but when my other female friend was DMing the guys gave her such a hard time she just gave up.

It takes some time and pratice but you can figure a way to bring them back into the game.
Phantom Reaper
06-12-05, 10:46 PM Sounds like you got a strong case of what my groups got I like to call "How did I get stuck with these idiots syndrome" also know as HDIGSWTIS.

The only cure is a good talking to the group and harsh penaltys if that don't work. Now I know we don't like to punish our players, it kills my heart to have one of them lose 200xp because of a simple joke, I cried when I told one of my players his character just died of a stupid remark he said towards a king.

But alas we must do this to make our players strong. Say it with me now "If you make one more stupid joke while playing this game I will deduct 200 xp".

Say it LOUD and say it proud.
natiels
06-13-05, 10:39 AM Man, this is such a common problem. Most of the time because the person that enjoys making up an entire world and walking everyone through it is much more mature then the people that are there to just "kill stuff". Maybe you should tell your friends they need to make a serious effort or you are just going to quit. If they really enjoy playing then they might shape up a bit. Also, giving rewards for good behavior is sometimes a better motivator then giving penalties for bad behavior.

his character just died of a stupid remark he said towards a king.
I like this quote. A good way to get players to act seriously is by treating their actions seriously.
Journeyman Samwise
06-13-05, 10:43 AM Award XP bonuses for good in-character RPing. Threatening with XP penalties just pisses your players the **** off and probably will make them hate you.

Talk with them outside the game, show them all the work you put into your campaign setting, I'm sure they'll understand.
simon_tage
06-13-05, 10:47 AM My Wednesday night game is like this, and we are all in our 30s. I used to see it as a serious game and made tons of prep, now I see that the guys just want to hang and the game is nothing more than a backdrop (or an excuse with the wives). That is why I started a second game with dedicated role players on Sundays. My friends are happy and I am happy. As far as converting party gamers to hardcore RPers....yeah, well, good luck with that. The situation sucks but I don't really think that saying "Hey I worked hard on this!" will get you anywhere other than being the target of the night's jokes, especially if they are your friends.
Moradin
06-13-05, 11:08 AM Well, thank you all for your advice; I appreciate the inisght. I talked with the only other player besides myself who actually cares a lot about roleplay7ing, and we hyave decided to just recruit one other PC for this campaign. We may have ended up just playing with him being the only PC, but as a half-ogre barbarian with 4 intelligence, that would be a bit... yeah. I'll be sure to use these suggestions to try and improve the status of our gaming. Thanks again.
KoboldSlayer
06-13-05, 11:12 AM I had a problem with SOME of my players wanting to joke and some wanting to play seriously. It sounds like your problem is worse, but here is what worked, at least acceptably, for mine:

Tell them you want your game to focus more heavily on roleplaying and that with that goal, you are giving 1/2 (or some other fraction you find appropriate) earned experience points for killing monsters. Tell them this will be compensated for by a hefty roleplaying bonus XP for those who earn it through staying in character. No one is missing out on experience unless it is by their own actions. Those able to abide by the roleplaying flavor will get comparable experience to what they normally expect, or possibly more for really good RP...but those who continue to goof off won't advance as quickly. It took about two games for people to catch on and fall into line.

I usually pass my player's experience points out to them on slips of paper, so they don't know what level the others are, who got what for roleplaying, etc. For a few weeks, I started passing out their experience points and with it letting them know what the "average" roleplaying XP was. If they were way above average, they were doing good. If they were way below, they knew they needed work. But no one could point fingers that so-and-so "got more XP than me!" because they didn't know who to point at and could only guess.

Lastly, if you start a new campaign, if you know one or two "ringleaders" who are (a) always pushing the others on to new out-of-character discussions or (b) just plain so loud you can't DM around them if they are out-of-character...don't invite them. "Kicking someone out" of a game hurts feelings and should only be done for cheating or some other MAJOR problem because it could be seen as rude to kick someone just because you don't like their RP style. Not inviting them back, though, is different in a subtle way and doesn't leave as many hurt feelings. It's your privilege to invite whoever you want to your games...and others should know it was a privilege to be invited. If they don't feel honored and special to be there, and they just see you as obligated to run a game for them, then they will not behave with respect toward you.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Moradin 06-12-05, 09:14 PM	This has probably come up before, because I'm sure most DMs have had this problem at some point in their histories, but I thought that I'd ask for advice regardless. I picked up Heroes of Battle today, and was immediately flooded with inspiration and ideas for a new campaign, which I plan on starting production on tomorrow. Now, I've been through my share of campaign creating, and I have found that I absolutely love planning and creating the details of NPCs, towns, dungeons, and what have you, but when it comes down to actually playing, it's not as fun. that's not the problem. I love the actual DMing aspect as well, not just the creation. Now, the main reason I've bee through a few campaigns instead of sticking with one I really liked, is because I can never get into my own world once it is time for playing. Now, usually I never place blame for anything regarding myself on others, but I really must say that this is mainly the players' fault. The friends I play with just never meet my expectations for gaming. And really, I don't think my expectations are high. They always go off topic, make absurd amounts of sexual innuendos, make a mockery of everything, kid around, and just plain never take anything seriously. And I soon find that all of my hours of preparation and what not gone to Hell as I find myself annoyed and aggravated. I, personally, am very big on role-playing. I am one who strongly tries to keep the 'RP' in 'RPG.' And it's not because my players don't want to roleplay or can't (because that's a worthless excuse if I ever heard one; 'I can't roleplay'), it's just the simple fact that they don't. They don't get into their characters, they don't stay in character, they don't adapt their language or actions to what character they are playing. it is just a game, but to them, I don't think they see it as a role playing game. It's all too common to see the cowardly, cautious sorcerer charge down steps into an unknown room yelling CHARGE! with quarterstaff flailing. I'm not saying that sorcerers can't beat things with their staves, but when you explicitly say your character is cautious and cowardly.. But the main problem is just the absurd mount of hysterics, humor, etc. I'm no saying a good campaign or session has to be without humor, but it gets to be a bit ridiculous when I can't get out two sentences of an NPCs thought without someone making fun of something he or she just said, interrupting with some obscene or stupid remark, doing something flat out distracting, or bringing up some random inside joke from a campaign passed. I've tried telling them to focus, tried to keep them on track, at one point I even sat everyone down and established that there would be experience penalties for being absurdly immature, never roleplaying, etc (an ultimatum I did not want to have to instate). But nothing works. I'm very excited about this new campaign, but I have a feeling that after my preparation, it will all be for naught once again. I'm going to only have two o 3 people in this group in hopes that distractions and such will be at a minimum. I've quite frankly often times thought about quitting the whole DMing game and just stick to being a player. I've tried looking around for other players around my area, but there don't seem to be any close, and I'm already set in with a comfortable set of variant and house rules that I don't really want to sacrifice if I were to find a new group. Any suggestions?
Gort32 06-12-05, 09:30 PM	One major question: how old are you and how old are the players?
Moradin 06-12-05, 09:35 PM	I am 17, and the players are all 17-18. I know at least a few of them can be mature, but for the most part, they just rarely take anything seriously.
Kintaran 06-12-05, 09:36 PM	Well, sadly, if your DMing style differs so much from the expected play style, then you are ill-suited to running the game. If the players want a 'kick-in-the-door' jokefest, then forcing them to do immersive RP just will not work out well. Neither you nor the players are getting what you want out of the game. Just sit them down and tell them that it is not working out. If you cannot run such a game, then someone else will have to. This is far from an ideal solution, but making either you or the players do a campaign style that you dislike is hardly fair. But definitely talk to your players. Maybe you can work something out.
20goingon1232 06-12-05, 09:43 PM	I'm sorry, Moradin, but I have a group that is like that as well. The last session, they were so paranoid with traps that they were OOC-ing the possibility of me putting a couple gatling guns in a room with a piece of paper in it. I find it fun. No one is serious at all, so the laughter is almost continuous. It took them 6 hours to explore a small cave complex and a 3 room tomb. But the main thing is that we had fun. My advice is not to get caught up with the setting and everything. Don't plan as much and just roll with the situation. Mental note to self: Put an animated nude female statue in the next game for the "Knight" to fondle......
Brandchan 06-12-05, 09:54 PM	I'm now known as "popeye" to my friends because everytime they would start to go off and agervate me I would try and give them the "evil eye" but uh as you can tell it wasn't so evil. Getting the players in line is one of the hardest things to do. If they start talking about non game things then I doing something like surprize attack them, have something stolen, or some such that will bring them back to the game. If all else fails raising my voice and being like Yo people we can shot the **** some other time lets play works well. This worked for me, but when my other female friend was DMing the guys gave her such a hard time she just gave up. It takes some time and pratice but you can figure a way to bring them back into the game.
Phantom Reaper 06-12-05, 10:46 PM	Sounds like you got a strong case of what my groups got I like to call "How did I get stuck with these idiots syndrome" also know as HDIGSWTIS. The only cure is a good talking to the group and harsh penaltys if that don't work. Now I know we don't like to punish our players, it kills my heart to have one of them lose 200xp because of a simple joke, I cried when I told one of my players his character just died of a stupid remark he said towards a king. But alas we must do this to make our players strong. Say it with me now "If you make one more stupid joke while playing this game I will deduct 200 xp". Say it LOUD and say it proud.
natiels 06-13-05, 10:39 AM	Man, this is such a common problem. Most of the time because the person that enjoys making up an entire world and walking everyone through it is much more mature then the people that are there to just "kill stuff". Maybe you should tell your friends they need to make a serious effort or you are just going to quit. If they really enjoy playing then they might shape up a bit. Also, giving rewards for good behavior is sometimes a better motivator then giving penalties for bad behavior. his character just died of a stupid remark he said towards a king. I like this quote. A good way to get players to act seriously is by treating their actions seriously.
Journeyman Samwise 06-13-05, 10:43 AM	Award XP bonuses for good in-character RPing. Threatening with XP penalties just pisses your players the **** off and probably will make them hate you. Talk with them outside the game, show them all the work you put into your campaign setting, I'm sure they'll understand.
simon_tage 06-13-05, 10:47 AM	My Wednesday night game is like this, and we are all in our 30s. I used to see it as a serious game and made tons of prep, now I see that the guys just want to hang and the game is nothing more than a backdrop (or an excuse with the wives). That is why I started a second game with dedicated role players on Sundays. My friends are happy and I am happy. As far as converting party gamers to hardcore RPers....yeah, well, good luck with that. The situation sucks but I don't really think that saying "Hey I worked hard on this!" will get you anywhere other than being the target of the night's jokes, especially if they are your friends.
Moradin 06-13-05, 11:08 AM	Well, thank you all for your advice; I appreciate the inisght. I talked with the only other player besides myself who actually cares a lot about roleplay7ing, and we hyave decided to just recruit one other PC for this campaign. We may have ended up just playing with him being the only PC, but as a half-ogre barbarian with 4 intelligence, that would be a bit... yeah. I'll be sure to use these suggestions to try and improve the status of our gaming. Thanks again.
KoboldSlayer 06-13-05, 11:12 AM	I had a problem with SOME of my players wanting to joke and some wanting to play seriously. It sounds like your problem is worse, but here is what worked, at least acceptably, for mine: Tell them you want your game to focus more heavily on roleplaying and that with that goal, you are giving 1/2 (or some other fraction you find appropriate) earned experience points for killing monsters. Tell them this will be compensated for by a hefty roleplaying bonus XP for those who earn it through staying in character. No one is missing out on experience unless it is by their own actions. Those able to abide by the roleplaying flavor will get comparable experience to what they normally expect, or possibly more for really good RP...but those who continue to goof off won't advance as quickly. It took about two games for people to catch on and fall into line. I usually pass my player's experience points out to them on slips of paper, so they don't know what level the others are, who got what for roleplaying, etc. For a few weeks, I started passing out their experience points and with it letting them know what the "average" roleplaying XP was. If they were way above average, they were doing good. If they were way below, they knew they needed work. But no one could point fingers that so-and-so "got more XP than me!" because they didn't know who to point at and could only guess. Lastly, if you start a new campaign, if you know one or two "ringleaders" who are (a) always pushing the others on to new out-of-character discussions or (b) just plain so loud you can't DM around them if they are out-of-character...don't invite them. "Kicking someone out" of a game hurts feelings and should only be done for cheating or some other MAJOR problem because it could be seen as rude to kick someone just because you don't like their RP style. Not inviting them back, though, is different in a subtle way and doesn't leave as many hurt feelings. It's your privilege to invite whoever you want to your games...and others should know it was a privilege to be invited. If they don't feel honored and special to be there, and they just see you as obligated to run a game for them, then they will not behave with respect toward you.