Post/Author/DateTime	Post
dandfan 05-04-06, 12:18 PM	This is pherhaps the most difficult situation I've ever had to deal with as a DM. I've convinced players that abberations could become natural creatures by binding there souls with the world. I've had to deal with being called a criple (I have one leg) just because I said a PC couldnt be a blackguard. But this is a truly phenominal situation. One of my new PC's, a freind who has only recently become intrested in D&D, refuses to acknowledge that the game is D&D. Instead, he acts as if its another Final Fantasy game. Because its the only RP he's ever been exposed to, he wonders why I get upset when he wants to buy a, "curaga potion" from a vender. He wonders why I have to regain my composure when he asks if theres a Chocobo farm nearby. And he still hasnt forgivin me for not letting him play a moogle. It is to the point where I just want to say, "I give up, go play FF7, I cant stand it anymore." However, he does express an intrest in D&D. Also, he's one of my closest buds, he would hate me if I did that. I need help! Please, some advice. Much apreciated, -dandfan
Whim 05-04-06, 12:28 PM	Tell him that you won't play D&D with him anymore until after he tells you how many chocobos and moogles are in Diablo, Baldur's Gate, Dragon Quest, and/or pretty much any other RPG video game that does NOT have the words "Final" and "Fantasy" in the title. Seriously, has he never played an RPG video game that's NOT Final Fantasy? Because I'm going to have to go ahead and make cruel jokes about his worth as a gamer if that's the case.
dandfan 05-04-06, 12:34 PM	hahaha! I'm just cruel enough to do that. And yes, he has only played Final Fantasy. I've asked why before, and he just shrugs and says, "because its the only good RP out there." Belive me, it takes every inch of my sense to not pund the crap out of him, but yes, that is the only one he really plays.
Whim 05-04-06, 12:41 PM	I don't know what to tell you other than just be patient with him. It sounds to me like he thinks that the only good RPG is Final Fantasy because that's all he's ever really played. If he likes D&D enough, he'll eventually conform to the style. Of course, at the same time, you, as the DM, can stretch some things in D&D to relate the game to Final Fantasy a bit. I'm not saying you should go ahead and add chocobos, but I'm sure you can find a large, mountable bird in one of the manuals that could be painted yellow. And surely there could be fairies shaped like moogles--of course, I still wouldn't let him play a fairy either...hehe. Just rather than telling him what he CAN'T do, show him what he CAN do that will make his experience somewhat similar to Final Fantasy. Whether we realize it or not, I think we all at least accidently add elements from games we've played or movies we've watched into our pen-and-paper RPGs.
LazyPeon 05-04-06, 12:49 PM	Hm, I dont think i would have the patience for such a person, but then he is your friend. I think your best bet is to just focus on the similarities, just tell him that a 'curaga' (I put in inverted commas to distance myself from the word) is a 'potion of cure serious wounds' or whatever. If that doesnt work just buy him a copy of BG2, he should shut up after he is exposed to its objective superiority over FF.
Whim 05-04-06, 12:54 PM	If that doesnt work just buy him a copy of BG2, he should shut up after he is exposed to its objective superiority over FF. You have to remember that a hardcore Final Fantasy fan probably won't like the inferior graphics of BG2 compared to a newer FF game. And am I the only one who like BG1 better than BG2?
The_Stormfather 05-04-06, 01:07 PM	I loved them both, but the story in Baldur's Gate blew the sequel's story out of the water. My vote's with the original. Back to the topic now... Try to work with him, as others have said, but ultimately, if it's a lost cause, recognize the fact you may have to drop him. I had the same problem with a World of Warcrafter. He wanted to be an engineer to make bombs (In my homebrew, gunpowder hasn't been invented). He compared everything to WoW and accused me of stealing ideas from WoW eery time I mentioned an Elf, Dwarf, Orc, or sword. We had to listen to him complain about how much more fun Molten Core was than D&D, and had to listen to his endless glorystories about raiding Black Rock Spire. This went on for two weeks or so, until I dropped him after he tried to gank the cleric, er, 'priest'. Edit: Typo
Tempest Stormwind 05-04-06, 01:08 PM	If he's that much of a hardcore FF nerd, there's a halfway point you can meet him with. Try this (http://www.returnergames.com). It's a Pen/Paper game that's built to capture the 'feel' of Final Fantasy while still, fundamentally, being a pen/paper game. A quick aside with it (the rules aren't too difficult to figure out; on the other hand, since it *does* try to capture the FF feel, it requires the use of a calculator or a fast math brain to do things like damge) would be an icebreaker, and from there D&D is the next logical step. d20 is a better system, mind you, but this one might serve as a gateway for him if you're willing to spend time with him for that. Alternately, hook him up with Neverwinter Nights or Baldur's Gate 2. He may be more comfortable adjusting to the world if he can *see* it and recognize that most of the races are humanoid, not moogle-esque (oh, by the way, FF7's the only FF game where they're not called moogles; they're 'mogs' there). Adjusting to a game where your roleplay decisions actually have an outcome in the story would help kickstart him into D&D. Personally, seeing as you're playing 3.5, I'd recommend the Hordes of the Underdark expansion in NWN -- not only is it relatively high-power (start at level 15, hit level 26 or so), but it's also one of the most reactive in terms of RP (even the computer-controlled henchmen initiate conversations with you and with each other, there's pretty severe plot differences depending on your decisions, and so on), and it illustrates several interesting things about D&D in general right off (ranging from a trap-filled dungeon with lots of secret doors to intelligent weapons to wild magic and antimagic to puzzle locks... you get the idea). Barring that, if you want to pull out the custom modules, I'd highly recommend The HeX Coda (http://www.pixelscapes.com/hexcoda/) for circumstances like this (and for anyone, for that matter, but especially here). It's pure D&D, but the world has been reflavored in such a way to have a slightly more modern, alternative feel without any actual mechanical difference (for instance, the party bard has an artificial arm with a speaker system in it. When you ask him to use his bard song, he twists a few dials on it and some techno beats start playing, which leads him to respond with "Rock on."). It's even more open as far as interaction than anything official, and requires you to pay attention to the plot, the subtle hints, the NPC party member's opinions, and so on to truly figure out what's going on (and even your choice of NPC party, for that matter. If you picked the team to best *mechanically* support you, you may have extra challenges that wouldn't appear if you picked teammates who like each other and like you). Finally, it even goes out of its way to put the player on the spotlight for coming up with a backstory (you're cornered on the party's ship and the inquisitive member asks your character about their past), which would demonstrate to your friend that yes, you actually have to come up with this sort of thing. Since HeX Coda's still D&D but, it can be argued, with a touch of FF flavor, it'd probably be the hands-down easiest bridge to get him into things.
VirgilCaine 05-04-06, 01:10 PM	I'm not saying you should go ahead and add chocobos, but I'm sure you can find a large, mountable bird in one of the manuals that could be painted yellow. And surely there could be fairies shaped like moogles--of course, I still wouldn't let him play a fairy either...hehe. Axe Beak http://www.enworld.org/cc/converted/beast/axebeak.htm Certainly is trainable and aggressive enough for an excellent war-mount.
FellBlade 05-04-06, 01:18 PM	Try to work with him, as others have said, but ultimately, if it's a lost cause, recognize the fact you may have to drop him. I had the same problem with a World of Warcrafter. He wanted to be an engineer to make bombs (In my homebrew, gunpowder hasn't been invented). He compared everything to WoW and accused me of stealing ideas from WoW eery time I mentioned an Elf, Dwarf, Orc, or sword. We had to listen to him complain about how much more fun Molten Core was than D&D, and had to listen to his endless glorystories about raiding Black Rock Spire. This went on for two weeks or so, until I dropped him after he tried to gank the cleric, er, 'priest'. I too have had this problem with WoW fans it got to the point where i would dock xp when people mentioned it (its harsh but when you cant play beacuse your players go on for 30 min on some warcraft anicdote once every hour...)Anyways the xp docking worked for me but you got to think mabye this player is just trying to asociate somthing new with something he knows
dandfan 05-04-06, 01:24 PM	You all have some very intresting suggestions... I will definitly use some of these... (Oh, and about FF returner, we've played that. I just cosidered it part of the whole FF thing.) I really dont want to get rid of him, but, as Fellbalde said, I may indeed have to get rid of him. And the axebeak is one awsome monster. Will definitly be using it.
Alac Luin 05-04-06, 01:25 PM	Or the achaierai could work, but this 15 foot tall LE intelligent outsider may oppose someone trying to ride it. :)
Whim 05-04-06, 01:25 PM	He compared everything to WoW and accused me of stealing ideas from WoW every time I mentioned an Elf, Dwarf, Orc, or sword. We had to listen to him complain about how much more fun Molten Core was than D&D... There's no real problem with players comparing D&D to other games up until you reach the point I quoted. I personally don't mind it when players tell interesting stories from other games or when they make comparisons and such, but when they start sounding like snobs, it's time to take a little action..hehe.
Whim 05-04-06, 01:26 PM	Axe Beak http://www.enworld.org/cc/converted/beast/axebeak.htm Certainly is trainable and aggressive enough for an excellent war-mount. Score! I knew someone would find it for me without me having to do any work.
Eightbitmage 05-04-06, 01:29 PM	I would suggest letting him borrow your PHB. If he reads through it tell him that unless he sees something in game he doesn't know about it.
VirgilCaine 05-04-06, 01:43 PM	Score! I knew someone would find it for me without me having to do any work. No problem. Don't know if it's in a Monster Manual, though. ;)
Tempest Stormwind 05-04-06, 01:51 PM	No problem. Don't know if it's in a Monster Manual, though. ;) The Axebeak, along with a few other odd creatures (one other mount, the Hippocampus (which apparenlty isn't a brain structure but is instead an aquatic analogy to the hippogriff), and two guard animals named, I kid you not, the Thudhunter and the Climbdog) are all from the Arms & Equipment Guide (3.0).
Reighnhell 05-04-06, 02:26 PM	let him have a Chocobo if it shuts him up. He can rescue it from a poultry farm (chocobo's are good eatin'!) An issue of Dragon magazine (can't remember which) had d20 Chocobo stats. Give him the bird and hopefully that will satisfy him.
Slider33 05-04-06, 02:26 PM	This is pherhaps the most difficult situation I've ever had to deal with as a DM. I've convinced players that abberations could become natural creatures by binding there souls with the world. I've had to deal with being called a criple (I have one leg) just because I said a PC couldnt be a blackguard. But this is a truly phenominal situation. One of my new PC's, a freind who has only recently become intrested in D&D, refuses to acknowledge that the game is D&D. Instead, he acts as if its another Final Fantasy game. Because its the only RP he's ever been exposed to, he wonders why I get upset when he wants to buy a, "curaga potion" from a vender. He wonders why I have to regain my composure when he asks if theres a Chocobo farm nearby. And he still hasnt forgivin me for not letting him play a moogle. It is to the point where I just want to say, "I give up, go play FF7, I cant stand it anymore." However, he does express an intrest in D&D. Also, he's one of my closest buds, he would hate me if I did that. I need help! Please, some advice. Much apreciated, -dandfan There are all kinds of assumptions that can be made, but maybe he is completely oblivious to other fantasy settings. What puzzles me is that he's not even willing to try, can someone actually LACK the amount of imagination it takes to consider different fantasy settings? My suggestion is, to lend him another CRPG game and have him just try it out for a while. There are dozens of them (as I'm sure you already know). If you don't I'm sure we can give you tons of examples of good CRPG's. Baldur's gate games are great, and Neverwinter Nights is also very good and abides by the version 3 ruleset. While FF may be his cup of tea, and very exciting to him, D&D in it's default sense is far from Final Fantasy. Surely if he likes FF, he should also have some spark of interest in a more traditional D&D setting. What about movies? Does he like Lord of the Rings? Braveheart? <Insert any other medieval era movie here>? If so then I don't see what his problem is. But if he likes higher-technology kinds of things you could try Modern D20, Shadowrun, Star Wars or all kinds of different Sci-fi RPG's. But that doesn't really answer your question, but do keep in mind this may be what he really is seeking in a game. You definitely don't have to get hostile with him :) Just try and find out what his preferences are, and why he wants to play in a Final Fantasy setting. Find out why he wants it like that and maybe you can figure out what to do from there. If he can't grasp the concept, direct him toward some good computer games or some good movies that will get him in the right mind set.
Alynn 05-04-06, 02:30 PM	Easy, just toss a few Cocktrice his way, and when he tried to pet one, have it bite him (with the appropriate attack and damage rolls). Alternitively, turn it around on him RP wise, when he tries to find a curega potion, and nobody seems to have one (because nobody knows what it is) have some young entrepenuring halfling rogue bluff him into buying some nice mint flavored water for a few hundred gp... have the rogue bluff him into making it in bulk "real cheap" but he needs the money up front (or just half the money)... Possibly people start thinking him slightly not right in the head, talking about things that as far as anyone knows doesn't exist... The world never conforms to a PC, the PC conforms to the world.
Feeb 05-04-06, 03:07 PM	We had to listen to him complain about how much more fun Molten Core was than D&D Clearly, the player hadn't spent any appreciable amount of time in "Molten Bore" ;) Back to the topic at hand, as others have posted, it is always preferable to bring the player "onboard" rather than remove them from the table. Maybe the play group could get together and (as others have suggested) watch LOTR or some other DnD-esque, medieval fantasy movie and then watch something like FF7: Advent Children and have a brainstorming session afterwards (what sort of stuff was cool? what storyline elements did you like? what sort of events or powers would you want to see replicated at the game table, what sort of rule mechanic might achieve those results?)
Whim 05-04-06, 03:32 PM	If so then I don't see what his problem is. But if he likes higher-technology kinds of things you could try Modern D20, Shadowrun, Star Wars or all kinds of different Sci-fi RPG's. But that doesn't really answer your question, but do keep in mind this may be what he really is seeking in a game. Yeah, I didn't even think of that. Perhaps he simply doesn't like such medieval style fantasy. You might do good to look into some other pen-and-paper RPGs. Perhaps you can expand your own horizons as well as his. It also doesn't hurt to blend D&D with d20 modern a bit.
00_Whupass 05-04-06, 03:42 PM	Clearly, the player hadn't spent any appreciable amount of time in "Molten Bore" ;) Back to the topic at hand, as others have posted, it is always preferable to bring the player "onboard" rather than remove them from the table. Maybe the play group could get together and (as others have suggested) watch LOTR or some other DnD-esque, medieval fantasy movie and then watch something like FF7: Advent Children and have a brainstorming session afterwards (what sort of stuff was cool? what storyline elements did you like? what sort of events or powers would you want to see replicated at the game table, what sort of rule mechanic might achieve those results?) This is an excellent suggestion, since it is an excellent furtherance of exactly what D&D is: Cooperative Storytelling. Taking such a cooperative approach the this problem and involving your players in world and adventure theme decisions can have an immensely positive effect and enrich the gaming experiance of everyonte at the table. Great Suggestion, wish I'd thought of it.
Sulaco 05-04-06, 04:03 PM	hahaha! I'm just cruel enough to do that. And yes, he has only played Final Fantasy. I've asked why before, and he just shrugs and says, "because its the only good RP out there." How does he know it's the only good one* if he's never played anything else? Your friend makes my head hurt. *It so is not. Final Fantasy isn't even a good one, let alone the only good one.
Arquinsiel 05-04-06, 04:51 PM	If that doesnt work just buy him a copy of BG2, he should shut up after he is exposed to its objective superiority over FF. You have to remember that a hardcore Final Fantasy fan probably won't like the inferior graphics of BG2 compared to a newer FF game. The BG theory fails, I tried it with my GF. She loves it, but still get's that scarey glint in her eye when someone mentiones Sephiroth. Still, when it comes to RP starting out with but 4hp meant that had no end of angry texts/irc conversations from her complaining about how easily she died. In the end this and good old MUD (not forgetting the constant mockery of everyone else in the group of 20+ people who had all played both series and were long-time roleplayers) has resulted in her being able to RP at a munchkin d20 level. We are eventually going to expose her to something slightly more "serious" than this but only after she has finished BG2. And am I the only one who like BG1 better than BG2? No, I agree with you. BG1 was far nicer. *It so is not. Final Fantasy isn't even a good one, let alone the only good one.I find myself agreeing with you. I can't imagine why.
Svarog 05-04-06, 04:54 PM	You can try with one house rule that I took over from a friend DM (his nickname is Zrtva;for all of you out there this is completly pointless,but I have to write his name and to give him a credit for great DMing),a rule named "crazy points".It goes something like this:Every time a player mention something that do not have anything to do with d&d you give him a crazy point (if he asks some man in the inn "Whats on TV" or "I am goin to photocopy my spellbook" or mention some stupid whatever phrase as "curaga potion"-imagine asking a high-pries for a curaga potion"Cure-what-potion,my son.?" ; or thunder,tundra,tundraga or whatever is the names of that magic,what a great imagination,now I can see how they made xy ff games).You as a DM can set an amount of 4-8 crasy points as a limit,with decreasing point of 1 point/2-4 sessions without gaining any new CP.And with reacing that limit very stange things start to happen to that player(use your imagination,or make some critical fumbles-like table).It doesnt matter if he is in the battle or somewhere else (he,he,roll a dex check DC 20 or spill your hot coffe over a governor's wife :D ...)Ofcourse,he can always lover that number of CP,as I said it before,but only after a few sessions-It is great to be a sado-DM.Have fun
Vaalingrade Ashland 05-04-06, 05:12 PM	Money says no one has bothered to describe the setting or the magic or the items to him at bleeding all and just expected him to spontaniously know DnD memes. I remember when I started, I knew only M:tG, the Zelda series and Arcanum and everyone had a jolly obnoxious laugh when I asked how to tap mana and wasn't instantly hateful toward drow, but no one could be bothered to say a damned thing about the actual setting we were playing in. They all just assumed that anyone playing DnD had read half a dozen FR books. This guy's introduction to fantasy gaming was FF. Unless you've actually explained that the world isn't like FF AND what the world really is like, there's no way he could know he's making a faux pas.