Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Shar Baenre 10-04-03, 03:02 AM	K... my PCs have been in Mirabar for a little while now (maybe four days). Janx, the gnome illusionist has gone to one of the dwarves there in the mining city to learn metalurgy and start the road towards the prestige class "Gnome Artificer". The dwarf told him that he'd show him where to start if he paid him 200gp and worked full days in his shop with him for three tenday. (basically in mechanical terms, I'll give him the first skill point in the craft for that, thusly opening him up to be able to spend more on it). Do you guys think that's a reasonable time frame for just starting the knowledge? Also, in the downtime, Furg, Janx's dwarven homeboy is preparing their wagon to be more of a passenger vehicle for the winter months to come. Teltharius, the moon elf ranger, is gearing towards becoming a "Peerless Archer", and has begun the process of making his own composite shortbow (basically he got fed up with being in a dwarven city that doesn't cater to his elven finery and the long trip to Silverymoon). Anyway, I told them that these things could be done in the three weeks they're waiting for Janx. I'm wondering if I've provided a good time frame or not, and I have yet to find the detailed rules for item making times. Strangely, I'm of the mindset that the only one that should take longer is the bow since the wood would have to sit and soak and curve to make it pliable....
MinusInnocence 10-04-03, 04:05 AM	1) I wouldn't give the gnome ANY free skillpoints. When you level up, you can spend them however you like; while the core rules don't explicitly say you can't spend them on whatever the hell you want, it's generally understood that you have no place pumping up skills that you've never used, nor had the opportunity to. A month in-game of intensive training under a Dwarven Master is a reasonable amount of time for him to be able to start spending points in it (WHEN he gets them). As far as perks go, he may even have an excuse to pick up Skill Focus - Craft (Blacksmithing) down the road.. but I certainly wouldn't just hand him the feat. However, while we wait... 2) You can find rules for the Craft skill on pp70-71 of the PHB. Incidentally, the DC for crafting a Composite Shortbow is 15, so we at least know what he's aiming for there. The way it works is you lay down a third of the average market price for whatever you're making as a sort of security deposit; actually, it's supposed to represent the raw materials you're using, but I think financial analogies work better for this. Essentially, this is how it works. If you miss your check by five or more, you waste half the deposit and have to pay it back again; but if your week's work is a success, you multiply the result by the DC... and that grand total is how many Silver Pieces worth of progress you've made for the week. I worked the math out a moment ago and if the elf rolls a 17 for each check, he can actually be about done in two tendays, not three (17x15=255=25.5GP=Approximately 1/3 of 75). In case you were wondering, if he's not quite done in that time but doesn't want to spend an entire extra week working on the stupid bow, he can tabulate his success daily instead of weekly but it works off of CP instead of SP. 3) As for the dwarf trying to convert the wagon into a somewhat more accomodating vehicle, you're going to have to figure out A) the DC for what he's trying to accomplish and B) how much more money a wagon he has in mind would cost than the one they already have. The difference in price, at least as far as the skill works, is really the only thing he's trying to 'craft' (there is a precedent for this in their explanation of how crafting MW items works- you calculate the MW price and the actual item's price separately). Off the top of my head, I would say 15 is a decent DC. The total is something you'll have to figure out for yourself; cushions and insulation is one thing, some sort of advanced heating system or a combustion engine is quite another (30gp vs 3.5 million gp). Again, in D&D, nothing is impossible, exactly.. it's just extremely improbable. Your estimation wasn't far off at all: unless something terrible happens, the group should indeed be able to finish what they need to do while Janx is taking care of business.
Shar Baenre 10-04-03, 01:06 PM	Yeah... Janx isn't getting a freebe... he has points from just having gained a level, but I told him that metalurgy isn't a skill I'd let him pick without being shown how it works first... so its his point to spend. As far as the item creations... I understood all of that already. The DC's have been set and the characters have exceeded them already. I already knew the basics on costs you mentioned too, though the way you spelled it out slightly different from the book was nice. I just couldn't find anything in the books about timeframe, and I was wondering if maybe somebody savy in the History Channel might have that info. Another thing is that Furg and Janx are both gearheads... they both have carpentry as a craft, as well as a few skill combos, such as rope use+wilderness lore= lumberjacking, and they're in a city half full of dwarves, so I actually give them a discount on raw materials for a number of reasons. So, even though you answered some other tidbits, I guess my question would still stand about the amount of time involved. If nothing more, Teltharius can have his bow in a setup of vices and grips, secured and setting in the back of the wagon after the PC's set out, but I'd still need to know when I could actually give him access to his new prize.