Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Kolyana 11-25-07, 07:53 PM	So I have a player who loves re-writing the rules. Every one turned up for character generation, he turned up with new rule suggestions. he has suggested a new spell that he'd like to research for his mage. I suspect that the motivation is largely to get around what he sees as the inconvenience of having to roll to transfer spells from a 'captured' book or scroll and into his own, but when I think about it the spells intent seems sound. In fact, I'm wondering why no one has come up with this spell before. What I would like it to do: Change the arcane writing of another wizards spell book to the arcane writing of [my mage]. This way he doesn't need to make a transcription roll to use spell books he finds to cast spells out of them. It would thus make the spell book [mine] in all ways. This seems to circumvent to need for rolls for spell transfer into a spell (to me, as an aside, this loses some of the flavor of the copying process, but that to one side). 1. Is the premise of this spell sound? 2. Does this spell exist in any other form in any other book? Can someone point me towards it? 3. If it hasn't already been done ... the question is WHY? I assume that if several non-core books detailing a thousand new spells do not cover something like this, that there may be a reaosn for that. 4. If the spell is legit, what is the new-spell creation process? Is there an established one, or can I make up my own rules (I know I can always do the latter, but if there is a process in place I'd like to make sure that I build upon the base system). 5. If this spell doesn't exist elsewhere, what would be the suggested level and abilities?
Vathelokai 11-25-07, 09:06 PM	Well, I don't see the point really. Read magic deciphers the book, then a spellcraft DC15+spell level allows them to memorize from the book. A 'maximized' wizard could have +5int, +4ranks, +2synergy; that amounts to only failing on a 3 or lower. A custom magic item, like 'eyeglasses or reading other wizard's stuff' that give a +3 spellcraft competence bonus would accomplish the same ends as a spell. As for the spell, I would say that it's 2nd level, and has a durration of 1 day; that way the character could sacrifice one spell slot every day to use other books, but would still need to eventually copy them. Most likely what your player is trying to do is save money. Copying spells costs 100gp per spell level just for the material costs, then you have to get the spell to copy and make checks. A Blessed book and a +5 spellcraft item could solve those problems without changing rules.
Kolyana 11-25-07, 09:46 PM	Thanks Vathelokai for the feedback. Would you recommend that the material components still be required (thus still a cost)?
Vathelokai 11-25-07, 10:16 PM	Depends on the flavor of your campaign. If it's low magic, keep the costs. If it's high magic, then lower them. The mechanic exists to keep wizards from having all the spells in the game (or at least having to pay mightily for them); also, if they want a wide variety of spells, they won't have the resources to craft as many magic items. Personally, I've always thought the cost was kind of high. One option would be to give the player a blessed book at low level (a present from a mentor or something), and not give the player much in rewards for the first 5 levels; a spellbook every now and then, but no wands or 'wizard' magic items. At around 6th lv or so the treasure will even out. Treasure stays more or less balanced, and the wizard doesn't have to pay out the nose to copy spellbooks. Oh; something I missed, there is an established method to create spells. It's in the DMG (not sure on the page, but it's in the campaign/optional rules section). Requires weeks of research, lots of money, and a slight chance for failure.
Kolyana 11-25-07, 10:20 PM	Depends on the flavor of your campaign. If it's low magic, keep the costs. If it's high magic, then lower them. The mechanic exists to keep wizards from having all the spells in the game (or at least having to pay mightily for them); also, if they want a wide variety of spells, they won't have the resources to craft as many magic items. Personally, I've always thought the cost was kind of high. One option would be to give the player a blessed book at low level (a present from a mentor or something), and not give the player much in rewards for the first 5 levels; a spellbook every now and then, but no wands or 'wizard' magic items. At around 6th lv or so the treasure will even out. Treasure stays more or less balanced, and the wizard doesn't have to pay out the nose to copy spellbooks. Oh; something I missed, there is an established method to create spells. It's in the DMG (not sure on the page, but it's in the campaign/optional rules section). Requires weeks of research, lots of money, and a slight chance for failure. Perfect - thank you so much for the information!
Kolyana 11-29-07, 12:46 AM	Any thoughts on what the level of spell should be if - after casting it - the 'captured' spell book was PERMANENTLY rendered 'readable'; i.e. no spellcraft roll ever had to be made against that book. I know it's a redundant spell in many ways, but I'd like to figure out what the level jump would be from lasting 1 day to lasting forever.
unrepentantweed 11-29-07, 06:42 AM	There used to be spells in second edition, that did this. The first level spell was called copy I believe. That spell would basically copy any writing even magic writing, but not spell effects like explosive runes.
kuonji 11-29-07, 07:54 AM	I think Complete Arcane has some rules about mastering found spellbooks.
Ayra 11-29-07, 08:45 AM	Any thoughts on what the level of spell should be if - after casting it - the 'captured' spell book was PERMANENTLY rendered 'readable'; i.e. no spellcraft roll ever had to be made against that book. I know it's a redundant spell in many ways, but I'd like to figure out what the level jump would be from lasting 1 day to lasting forever. You could technically cast permanency on it (which is 5th level) if you wanted to have it permanent. If you want to permanently be able to do such things, I'd place it at maybe 5th level as well. Just knowing someone elses spells can be pretty good when it costs no time to learn them, but I would definitely make an opposed check with the original owner of the spellbook (or with the highest spell level in the book). I'm sure that not many wizards would like it if their book can easily be read by others. Keep in mind that casting permanency costs XP, so you could also add an XP cost to this spell. Then again, when it comes down to these issues I'm not the best to rely on so I'd definitely listen to the advise of others first as well. I just wanted to point out the option of permanency. That being said, wouldn't it be better if the spell would be utilized in a way that when it's cast, you immediately replace one spell slot of equivalent level to the spell you'd want to cast from the unfamiliar spellbook, with the spell of your choice from said book. This way if for example my wizard finds a book, he could browse through the book with the spell in question and select one spell to replace one of his existing spells of equal level. This could be very useful if it concerns a spell he doesn't have, but might need when trying to get out of a dungeon (for example).