Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Bahamut_the_Gold 01-11-07, 08:50 PM	So, if PCs have no possiable way of knowing if something is going to attack them do they still get to roll for surprise? For example: The party of PCs are in a stone building. They are sitting in chairs listening to a speech. Suddenly, the wall explodes inward from a lightning bolt (Or dragonbreath, large ballista, tres-va-che (SP?) etc.) and the wall along with the actual lightning bolt shoots into the room. Surprise? Caught flat footed? (Or flat rumped as the case may be) What happens immediately after the initial explosion?
primemover003 01-11-07, 08:59 PM	Technically the event (Lightning Bolt, Siege Engine, etc.) WAS the surprise round. After the wall is blown to smithereens the PC's would roll Initiative. And the word you were looking for was Trebuchet... :)
Bahamut_the_Gold 01-11-07, 09:09 PM	Technically the event (Lightning Bolt, Siege Engine, etc.) WAS the surprise round. So...they do get to roll the surprise round even though there was no way for them to know about the wall coming in?
revnk 01-11-07, 10:34 PM	The PCs are the ones who were surprised, so they do nothing during the entire round the wall is caving in. The initiative roll the following round represents the PCs realizing what happens and reacting to it. Note that this answer is based on the "no possible way" part of your premise: a dragon, a trebuchet crew, or a wizard using verbal components might make sounds that the PCs could notice with a Listen check, in which case they might or might not be surprised. (Compare: DM: You hear a voice on the other side of the wall, shouting rhythmically. Player 1: What on earth could that be? Player 2: I put my ear to the wall. DM: The wall explodes inwards! versus: DM: You hear a voice on the other side of the wall, shouting rhythmically. Player 1: Bloody Hell! I hit the dirt, using my arms to protect my head! Player 2: I jump to the side, whipping out my sword as I leap! DM: The wall explodes inwards! A veteran (or merely paranoid) group might react in the second manner described, in which case they're not really surprised as such--there's nothing much they can do about the wall exploding inward, but during their first round of action they will already have cover or drawn weapons, perhaps saving an action or avoiding being the first-targeted PC....) Hope that helps clarify!
Bahamut_the_Gold 01-12-07, 02:54 AM	Thank you revnk for the clarification and scenarios!
Cifer 01-12-07, 01:57 PM	And always remember that there is one enemy that will always get a surprise round, because Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition...
Bahamut_the_Gold 01-14-07, 09:21 PM	My real name is John but it is pronounced Jay Warbler Mandgrove!
ZolDarklock 01-14-07, 10:41 PM	only after the initial clue that something is happening, then roll for surprise, anything that happens before they get a clue is just free actions