A Question of Rules [Archive] - Wizards Community

A Question of Rules [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Passivearmada
06-18-07, 12:30 PM I've heard of the term 'align shot,' ot 'line up shot,' but ive never seen any official rules about it. i was wondering if anyone knows where to find it. (if it's in the PHBv3.5, ill be very mad). apparently, you can take a full round action and get an auto-hit? i dont even know.
youre information and help wold be greatly appreciated :)
celtredleg
06-18-07, 01:16 PM I have never heard of that in any of the official rules. Sounds like a third party thing to me.
steventirey1985
06-18-07, 01:25 PM You can take a full-round action to get an auto-hit on an object if you are using a melee weapon. (page 165, PHB 3.5)

Or, if the target is a creature that is helpless, you can perform a coup de grace, which also auto-hits and automatically does a critical. (page 153-54, PHB 3.5)
TwiddleStootch
06-18-07, 02:43 PM Also, you can Coup De Grace with a ranged weapon as long as you are adjacent to the target.
goawayugh
06-18-07, 03:28 PM Also, you can Coup De Grace with a ranged weapon as long as you are adjacent to the target.

Not exactly, you can coup de crace w/ a crossbow or bow if you are adjacent to the target. Not just any ranged weapon.

To the OP: what you are talking about is lining up a hit against an object. If you take a full-round to line it up, you auto hit an object w/ a melee weapon.
Corpus
06-18-07, 03:32 PM Since no one's mentioned it yet: Don't forget that the object must be unattended.
Anathema
06-18-07, 03:35 PM Not exactly, you can coup de crace w/ a crossbow or bow if you are adjacent to the target. Not just any ranged weapon.

I would imagine a thrown weapon could just be used like a melee axe/spear/dagger/whatever in that case :p
goawayugh
06-18-07, 03:35 PM Since no one's mentioned it yet: Don't forget that the object must be unattended.

Hadn't thought to mention that, good point. If you want to hit an object in someone's possesion, look up the rules for sunder.
Passivearmada
06-20-07, 09:54 AM alright- i am mad that i didnt find it in the PHB.... :banghead:
thanks, guys- what was that about the target being unattended?
:)
Kaldric
06-20-07, 09:58 AM It's a rule that prevents the kind of ridiculous circumstance of trying to hit an egg or an anvil or a piece of wood sitting on the ground with nobody else around and missing a significant fraction of the time.

The "unattended" means that nobody is protecting the item or holding it or using it. It's just sitting there.
Leilond
06-20-07, 10:15 AM I would imagine a thrown weapon could just be used like a melee axe/spear/dagger/whatever in that case :p

But not with a "sling" or a "shuriken"
Every weapon that can be used in "melee" can be used to CdG
Bows and crossbows can be used to CdG
No other items can be used that way
Passivearmada
06-21-07, 05:49 PM so, say a guy was sitting asleep, but not on the ground, would that call for a coup de grace (is that pronounced coo de grah?) or a full-round auto hit?
Salla
06-21-07, 05:53 PM so, say a guy was sitting asleep, but not on the ground, would that call for a coup de grace (is that pronounced coo de grah?) or a full-round auto hit?

If he's asleep, he's helpless, and thus subject to Coup De Grace (which is indeed pronounced coo de grah). Whether or not he's seated or laying down is irrelevant.
Anathema
06-21-07, 05:56 PM But not with a "sling" or a "shuriken"

Sure they could! Choking and cutting the throat or other artery, respectively.

I know that's contrary to what the PHB says, but I think I'd allow it in my game, circumstances permitting.
Passivearmada
06-21-07, 09:27 PM alright, then. lets say a guard is on duty, is bored, and not paying much attention. a rogue sneaks up behnd him. could he take a full round auto hit, or would he still need to roll to see if he hits on the sneak attack? (the guard is standing still).
Salla
06-21-07, 09:29 PM alright, then. lets say a guard is on duty, is bored, and not paying much attention. a rogue sneaks up behnd him. could he take a full round auto hit, or would he still need to roll to see if he hits on the sneak attack? (the guard is standing still).

The guard can still move, therefore he is not helpless and not susceptible to autohits or coup de grace. It's pretty likely the rogue gets to Sneak Attack, though, as he's probably going to get a surprise round.
Passivearmada
06-21-07, 09:40 PM im almost certain that the example i read was like in some areticle that mentioned that the group's ranger took the FRA to line up his shot on the gradon, as the fighter charged in. i dont know if the dragon was sleeping, but im pretty sure it was awake. i read the article (or whatever it was) like half a year ago, so its all kinda foggy.
trapspringer
06-21-07, 09:44 PM A lot of RPG engines allow "aiming."

Basically you take a round to line up your shot and get a 20% bonus up to some pre-determined limit.

White Wolf games and Unknown Armies both feature something like this, I think.
Dei
06-21-07, 11:53 PM im almost certain that the example i read was like in some areticle that mentioned that the group's ranger took the FRA to line up his shot on the gradon, as the fighter charged in. i dont know if the dragon was sleeping, but im pretty sure it was awake. i read the article (or whatever it was) like half a year ago, so its all kinda foggy.

There may be some feat or class ability or something that allows you to do something like this from a dragon magazine or some third party source but there's certainly nothing like this in core or any WOTC supplement I've read. You might be thinking of the Apprentice of the Bow prestige class (might have the name wrong, don't have the book with me) from Complete Warrior which has an ability which allows it to use a standard action to increase it's ranged damage. There's a number of bow using sniper prestige classes which allow you to gain a significant bonus to your attack roll given certain circumstances. Perhaps your thinking of one of them? Again though, short of a true-strike spell there's virtually no way to guarantee a hit and even then you could always roll a one :S.
Kaldric
06-22-07, 01:13 AM You actually do pronounce the S sound at the end. The P is silent. It's kood-uh-grahs, or ku də gras. Not coo de grah. At least according to the dictionary. It means "blow of mercy".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coup_de_gr%C3%A2ce

Gras, in French, which does have a silent S, means "fat". So, when you say koo de gra, you are saying "Blow of fat". Like in pate de foi gras. Which is made of fatty liver.
goawayugh
06-22-07, 07:12 AM alright, then. lets say a guard is on duty, is bored, and not paying much attention. a rogue sneaks up behnd him. could he take a full round auto hit, or would he still need to roll to see if he hits on the sneak attack? (the guard is standing still).

He is not helpless, therefore you still have to roll to hit. But...you do get a +2 for effictively being invisible (he doesn't see you), plus he is denied hid Dex to AC (which of course means SA damage).

EDIT: Plus, it's not a full round, it is a suprise round, so you only get a standard actions.
Leilond
06-22-07, 07:23 AM He is not helpless, therefore you still have to roll to hit. But...you do get a +2 for effictively being invisible (he doesn't see you), plus he is denied hid Dex to AC (which of course means SA damage).

EDIT: Plus, it's not a full round, it is a suprise round, so you only get a standard actions.

That's RAW. I cannot do nothing else but quote
Passivearmada
06-24-07, 07:15 PM i believe that it is the Order of the Bow Initiate, Dei, but i dont have the book, so im unsure. I've been planning on getting either Complete Arcana, Complte Warrior, or Complete Adventurer, but i can only get 1 right now. i have Complete Scoundrel, which is resorceful, but i think that $30 is a little ridiculous for something that thin.
goawayugh
06-25-07, 11:59 AM First, buy from Amazon, they're about $20 a piece. (or try ebay).

Second, I would say Complete Arcane, but I'm very partial to casters. Complete Adventurer is great. Complete Warrior I like even less than Complete Psionic, yet is still a good buy.

I just LOVE the Complete books. Boy, I can't wait to get my hands on Scoundrel...
GothWulf
06-25-07, 12:57 PM As for someone sleeping I think I'd allow a listen vs. move silently to see if they wake up, after all a full plate warrior walking up and heaving his great axe to "silently" kill a sleeping target is going to be difficult :D

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Passivearmada 06-18-07, 12:30 PM	I've heard of the term 'align shot,' ot 'line up shot,' but ive never seen any official rules about it. i was wondering if anyone knows where to find it. (if it's in the PHBv3.5, ill be very mad). apparently, you can take a full round action and get an auto-hit? i dont even know. youre information and help wold be greatly appreciated :)
celtredleg 06-18-07, 01:16 PM	I have never heard of that in any of the official rules. Sounds like a third party thing to me.
steventirey1985 06-18-07, 01:25 PM	You can take a full-round action to get an auto-hit on an object if you are using a melee weapon. (page 165, PHB 3.5) Or, if the target is a creature that is helpless, you can perform a coup de grace, which also auto-hits and automatically does a critical. (page 153-54, PHB 3.5)
TwiddleStootch 06-18-07, 02:43 PM	Also, you can Coup De Grace with a ranged weapon as long as you are adjacent to the target.
goawayugh 06-18-07, 03:28 PM	Also, you can Coup De Grace with a ranged weapon as long as you are adjacent to the target. Not exactly, you can coup de crace w/ a crossbow or bow if you are adjacent to the target. Not just any ranged weapon. To the OP: what you are talking about is lining up a hit against an object. If you take a full-round to line it up, you auto hit an object w/ a melee weapon.
Corpus 06-18-07, 03:32 PM	Since no one's mentioned it yet: Don't forget that the object must be unattended.
Anathema 06-18-07, 03:35 PM	Not exactly, you can coup de crace w/ a crossbow or bow if you are adjacent to the target. Not just any ranged weapon. I would imagine a thrown weapon could just be used like a melee axe/spear/dagger/whatever in that case :p
goawayugh 06-18-07, 03:35 PM	Since no one's mentioned it yet: Don't forget that the object must be unattended. Hadn't thought to mention that, good point. If you want to hit an object in someone's possesion, look up the rules for sunder.
Passivearmada 06-20-07, 09:54 AM	alright- i am mad that i didnt find it in the PHB.... :banghead: thanks, guys- what was that about the target being unattended? :)
Kaldric 06-20-07, 09:58 AM	It's a rule that prevents the kind of ridiculous circumstance of trying to hit an egg or an anvil or a piece of wood sitting on the ground with nobody else around and missing a significant fraction of the time. The "unattended" means that nobody is protecting the item or holding it or using it. It's just sitting there.
Leilond 06-20-07, 10:15 AM	I would imagine a thrown weapon could just be used like a melee axe/spear/dagger/whatever in that case :p But not with a "sling" or a "shuriken" Every weapon that can be used in "melee" can be used to CdG Bows and crossbows can be used to CdG No other items can be used that way
Passivearmada 06-21-07, 05:49 PM	so, say a guy was sitting asleep, but not on the ground, would that call for a coup de grace (is that pronounced coo de grah?) or a full-round auto hit?
Salla 06-21-07, 05:53 PM	so, say a guy was sitting asleep, but not on the ground, would that call for a coup de grace (is that pronounced coo de grah?) or a full-round auto hit? If he's asleep, he's helpless, and thus subject to Coup De Grace (which is indeed pronounced coo de grah). Whether or not he's seated or laying down is irrelevant.
Anathema 06-21-07, 05:56 PM	But not with a "sling" or a "shuriken" Sure they could! Choking and cutting the throat or other artery, respectively. I know that's contrary to what the PHB says, but I think I'd allow it in my game, circumstances permitting.
Passivearmada 06-21-07, 09:27 PM	alright, then. lets say a guard is on duty, is bored, and not paying much attention. a rogue sneaks up behnd him. could he take a full round auto hit, or would he still need to roll to see if he hits on the sneak attack? (the guard is standing still).
Salla 06-21-07, 09:29 PM	alright, then. lets say a guard is on duty, is bored, and not paying much attention. a rogue sneaks up behnd him. could he take a full round auto hit, or would he still need to roll to see if he hits on the sneak attack? (the guard is standing still). The guard can still move, therefore he is not helpless and not susceptible to autohits or coup de grace. It's pretty likely the rogue gets to Sneak Attack, though, as he's probably going to get a surprise round.
Passivearmada 06-21-07, 09:40 PM	im almost certain that the example i read was like in some areticle that mentioned that the group's ranger took the FRA to line up his shot on the gradon, as the fighter charged in. i dont know if the dragon was sleeping, but im pretty sure it was awake. i read the article (or whatever it was) like half a year ago, so its all kinda foggy.
trapspringer 06-21-07, 09:44 PM	A lot of RPG engines allow "aiming." Basically you take a round to line up your shot and get a 20% bonus up to some pre-determined limit. White Wolf games and Unknown Armies both feature something like this, I think.
Dei 06-21-07, 11:53 PM	im almost certain that the example i read was like in some areticle that mentioned that the group's ranger took the FRA to line up his shot on the gradon, as the fighter charged in. i dont know if the dragon was sleeping, but im pretty sure it was awake. i read the article (or whatever it was) like half a year ago, so its all kinda foggy. There may be some feat or class ability or something that allows you to do something like this from a dragon magazine or some third party source but there's certainly nothing like this in core or any WOTC supplement I've read. You might be thinking of the Apprentice of the Bow prestige class (might have the name wrong, don't have the book with me) from Complete Warrior which has an ability which allows it to use a standard action to increase it's ranged damage. There's a number of bow using sniper prestige classes which allow you to gain a significant bonus to your attack roll given certain circumstances. Perhaps your thinking of one of them? Again though, short of a true-strike spell there's virtually no way to guarantee a hit and even then you could always roll a one :S.
Kaldric 06-22-07, 01:13 AM	You actually do pronounce the S sound at the end. The P is silent. It's kood-uh-grahs, or ku də gras. Not coo de grah. At least according to the dictionary. It means "blow of mercy". http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coup_de_gr%C3%A2ce Gras, in French, which does have a silent S, means "fat". So, when you say koo de gra, you are saying "Blow of fat". Like in pate de foi gras. Which is made of fatty liver.
goawayugh 06-22-07, 07:12 AM	alright, then. lets say a guard is on duty, is bored, and not paying much attention. a rogue sneaks up behnd him. could he take a full round auto hit, or would he still need to roll to see if he hits on the sneak attack? (the guard is standing still). He is not helpless, therefore you still have to roll to hit. But...you do get a +2 for effictively being invisible (he doesn't see you), plus he is denied hid Dex to AC (which of course means SA damage). EDIT: Plus, it's not a full round, it is a suprise round, so you only get a standard actions.
Leilond 06-22-07, 07:23 AM	He is not helpless, therefore you still have to roll to hit. But...you do get a +2 for effictively being invisible (he doesn't see you), plus he is denied hid Dex to AC (which of course means SA damage). EDIT: Plus, it's not a full round, it is a suprise round, so you only get a standard actions. That's RAW. I cannot do nothing else but quote
Passivearmada 06-24-07, 07:15 PM	i believe that it is the Order of the Bow Initiate, Dei, but i dont have the book, so im unsure. I've been planning on getting either Complete Arcana, Complte Warrior, or Complete Adventurer, but i can only get 1 right now. i have Complete Scoundrel, which is resorceful, but i think that $30 is a little ridiculous for something that thin.
goawayugh 06-25-07, 11:59 AM	First, buy from Amazon, they're about $20 a piece. (or try ebay). Second, I would say Complete Arcane, but I'm very partial to casters. Complete Adventurer is great. Complete Warrior I like even less than Complete Psionic, yet is still a good buy. I just LOVE the Complete books. Boy, I can't wait to get my hands on Scoundrel...
GothWulf 06-25-07, 12:57 PM	As for someone sleeping I think I'd allow a listen vs. move silently to see if they wake up, after all a full plate warrior walking up and heaving his great axe to "silently" kill a sleeping target is going to be difficult :D