A Question of Treasure [Archive] - Wizards Community

A Question of Treasure [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
nlentz88
06-14-07, 03:14 PM Hey guys,

I may have made a mistake in a random treasure I rolled for a dragon (triple standard treasure). The first couple of rolls through the tables netted some coin, gems, and art, but only minor magic items. But my third run through the tables netted a medium wonderous item which ended up being boots of speed. I had been keeping track of all treasure awarded so far, and the boots brought the total just about up to par for my party of 5th level PCs.

However, these boots look to be a mistake. First, they're worth 12,000 gp. That's well above the standard character wealth by level for a 5th level character (9,000 gp). So if one PC takes the boots (and only the boots) as his share of the loot, his character wealth will be far above the norm, not to mention the party average. Was this a mistake? Should I limit the gp cost of one randomly rolled magic item to at most match the character by level table?

Second, some of my PCs are now discussing/arguing/bickering about who gets the boots. I really didn't think this would be such a big deal, but I was wrong. Do you guys have any advice on how I can handle this going forward?

Thanks in advance,
Nick
Ebonarc
06-14-07, 03:26 PM This is what happens when magic items are only classified into "minor", "medium", and "major". A single item worth a ridiculous amount of GP shows up as treasure for characters who should never have access to the item.

My advice is to switch out the boots for other magic items, say, a total of 3-6, whose total GP value equals that of the boots. Since the players are already arguing over them, I assume they already have it. In this case, you may need to retcon the treasure, saying that the lesser items were in the hoard, and not the boots.

As an alternative, have an NPC trade equivalent magic items to the PCs in exchange for the boots.

On another note, be sure to apply a liberal amount of common sense to random treasure rolls. Random rolling saves time, but it can cause headaches. You don't necessarily need to apply a GP limit to the magic items you roll, but any that look far too expensive for your players to have should never make it into a dragon or other monster's hoard.
rironin
06-14-07, 03:28 PM This Save My Game article (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sg/20070309) addresses the problem, more or less. Might help.

I know my players would forgive me, and I hope your players would forgive you, if you told them that the boots were a bit too high-powered for this level of play and that a mistake had been made. What if you essentially converted the boots to gold (say that they were able to sell them for more than half their price, or something) and just had them divide up the gold? Assuming none of your players are bent on forcing you to keep the boots in play just because they're greedy and want an unbalanced advantage, they should be okay with this.

I would remind them that too much treasure is just as bad as too little in D&D, and explain that you need to adjust this particular item.

If you or your players insist on a role-playing solution, there are a number of ways to force the players to part with the boots, and to leave compensation there for them, although I think most of these methods (theft or destruction of the boots) would make my players more angry than being straight with them. They'll know if you're specifically targeting the boots for removal, and they'll feel cheated.
Guardian Phoenix
06-14-07, 04:07 PM Hey guys,

I may have made a mistake in a random treasure I rolled for a dragon (triple standard treasure). The first couple of rolls through the tables netted some coin, gems, and art, but only minor magic items. But my third run through the tables netted a medium wonderous item which ended up being boots of speed. I had been keeping track of all treasure awarded so far, and the boots brought the total just about up to par for my party of 5th level PCs.

However, these boots look to be a mistake. First, they're worth 12,000 gp. That's well above the standard character wealth by level for a 5th level character (9,000 gp). So if one PC takes the boots (and only the boots) as his share of the loot, his character wealth will be far above the norm, not to mention the party average. Was this a mistake? Should I limit the gp cost of one randomly rolled magic item to at most match the character by level table?

Second, some of my PCs are now discussing/arguing/bickering about who gets the boots. I really didn't think this would be such a big deal, but I was wrong. Do you guys have any advice on how I can handle this going forward?

Thanks in advance,
Nick
Standard wealth is a recommendation. At the beginning of the level, they'll be under wealth, at the end of the level, they'll be over wealth. It will probably work itself out if you're not too badly over wealth. In the future, roll ahead of time and reroll any item that breaks the recommendations too badly.

For the party's bickering, you'll need to sit them down and tell them that they need to determine a method for distributing items. You can threaten to take away any items causing too great of difficulties (bonus if they don't come to agreement and you get to take away the Boots of Speed). Ultimately, this is something the party needs to resolve. It is always a major sticking point in parties.
Sildatorak
06-14-07, 04:15 PM One thing my current party does well is split treasure. They figure the total value of the treasure if everything was going to be sold, divide that into shares, and let people buy out magic items. So say that it went like this with four people in the party:

boots of speed (sell of 6,000 gp)
sword+1 (~1k gp)
ring of protection+1 (1k gp)
10,000 gp

Total value if everything is sold is about 18,000 gp. That works out to 4,500 gp per person. The person who ends up with the boots either needs to throw another 1,500 gp into the pot or dish out IOU's for that value. If someone wants the ring, they end up taking it and 3,500 gp, etc. So far we haven't had much conflict over multiple people wanting the same item, though.
ccerose
06-14-07, 04:19 PM I'd go ahead and let them keep the boots. Hopefully they can work as a team to figure out who would benefit the party most by wearing the boots. If they can't, just have them all roll d20s to see who gets them. The player who does get them should agree that they forfeit future treasure until the other players wealth reaches his level and that he would forfeit the future loot until that happens.

On a side note, I highly recommend the Magic Item Compendium. It's got some great low level magic items that do some great things, but aren't overpowered. There are also tables that identify magic items by price and level. The tables contain new magic items, but also those in the DMG.
nlentz88
06-14-07, 04:54 PM Thanks for the advice, guys. I think I'll let the PCs keep the boots, as the average party wealth will be about right. Plus, they'll be heading out of town soon on another adventure and will be getting enough treasure to satisfy them all.

I'm just going to have to be more careful in the future when rolling for random treasure.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
nlentz88 06-14-07, 03:14 PM	Hey guys, I may have made a mistake in a random treasure I rolled for a dragon (triple standard treasure). The first couple of rolls through the tables netted some coin, gems, and art, but only minor magic items. But my third run through the tables netted a medium wonderous item which ended up being boots of speed. I had been keeping track of all treasure awarded so far, and the boots brought the total just about up to par for my party of 5th level PCs. However, these boots look to be a mistake. First, they're worth 12,000 gp. That's well above the standard character wealth by level for a 5th level character (9,000 gp). So if one PC takes the boots (and only the boots) as his share of the loot, his character wealth will be far above the norm, not to mention the party average. Was this a mistake? Should I limit the gp cost of one randomly rolled magic item to at most match the character by level table? Second, some of my PCs are now discussing/arguing/bickering about who gets the boots. I really didn't think this would be such a big deal, but I was wrong. Do you guys have any advice on how I can handle this going forward? Thanks in advance, Nick
Ebonarc 06-14-07, 03:26 PM	This is what happens when magic items are only classified into "minor", "medium", and "major". A single item worth a ridiculous amount of GP shows up as treasure for characters who should never have access to the item. My advice is to switch out the boots for other magic items, say, a total of 3-6, whose total GP value equals that of the boots. Since the players are already arguing over them, I assume they already have it. In this case, you may need to retcon the treasure, saying that the lesser items were in the hoard, and not the boots. As an alternative, have an NPC trade equivalent magic items to the PCs in exchange for the boots. On another note, be sure to apply a liberal amount of common sense to random treasure rolls. Random rolling saves time, but it can cause headaches. You don't necessarily need to apply a GP limit to the magic items you roll, but any that look far too expensive for your players to have should never make it into a dragon or other monster's hoard.
rironin 06-14-07, 03:28 PM	This Save My Game article (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sg/20070309) addresses the problem, more or less. Might help. I know my players would forgive me, and I hope your players would forgive you, if you told them that the boots were a bit too high-powered for this level of play and that a mistake had been made. What if you essentially converted the boots to gold (say that they were able to sell them for more than half their price, or something) and just had them divide up the gold? Assuming none of your players are bent on forcing you to keep the boots in play just because they're greedy and want an unbalanced advantage, they should be okay with this. I would remind them that too much treasure is just as bad as too little in D&D, and explain that you need to adjust this particular item. If you or your players insist on a role-playing solution, there are a number of ways to force the players to part with the boots, and to leave compensation there for them, although I think most of these methods (theft or destruction of the boots) would make my players more angry than being straight with them. They'll know if you're specifically targeting the boots for removal, and they'll feel cheated.
Guardian Phoenix 06-14-07, 04:07 PM	Hey guys, I may have made a mistake in a random treasure I rolled for a dragon (triple standard treasure). The first couple of rolls through the tables netted some coin, gems, and art, but only minor magic items. But my third run through the tables netted a medium wonderous item which ended up being boots of speed. I had been keeping track of all treasure awarded so far, and the boots brought the total just about up to par for my party of 5th level PCs. However, these boots look to be a mistake. First, they're worth 12,000 gp. That's well above the standard character wealth by level for a 5th level character (9,000 gp). So if one PC takes the boots (and only the boots) as his share of the loot, his character wealth will be far above the norm, not to mention the party average. Was this a mistake? Should I limit the gp cost of one randomly rolled magic item to at most match the character by level table? Second, some of my PCs are now discussing/arguing/bickering about who gets the boots. I really didn't think this would be such a big deal, but I was wrong. Do you guys have any advice on how I can handle this going forward? Thanks in advance, Nick Standard wealth is a recommendation. At the beginning of the level, they'll be under wealth, at the end of the level, they'll be over wealth. It will probably work itself out if you're not too badly over wealth. In the future, roll ahead of time and reroll any item that breaks the recommendations too badly. For the party's bickering, you'll need to sit them down and tell them that they need to determine a method for distributing items. You can threaten to take away any items causing too great of difficulties (bonus if they don't come to agreement and you get to take away the Boots of Speed). Ultimately, this is something the party needs to resolve. It is always a major sticking point in parties.
Sildatorak 06-14-07, 04:15 PM	One thing my current party does well is split treasure. They figure the total value of the treasure if everything was going to be sold, divide that into shares, and let people buy out magic items. So say that it went like this with four people in the party: boots of speed (sell of 6,000 gp) sword+1 (~1k gp) ring of protection+1 (1k gp) 10,000 gp Total value if everything is sold is about 18,000 gp. That works out to 4,500 gp per person. The person who ends up with the boots either needs to throw another 1,500 gp into the pot or dish out IOU's for that value. If someone wants the ring, they end up taking it and 3,500 gp, etc. So far we haven't had much conflict over multiple people wanting the same item, though.
ccerose 06-14-07, 04:19 PM	I'd go ahead and let them keep the boots. Hopefully they can work as a team to figure out who would benefit the party most by wearing the boots. If they can't, just have them all roll d20s to see who gets them. The player who does get them should agree that they forfeit future treasure until the other players wealth reaches his level and that he would forfeit the future loot until that happens. On a side note, I highly recommend the Magic Item Compendium. It's got some great low level magic items that do some great things, but aren't overpowered. There are also tables that identify magic items by price and level. The tables contain new magic items, but also those in the DMG.
nlentz88 06-14-07, 04:54 PM	Thanks for the advice, guys. I think I'll let the PCs keep the boots, as the average party wealth will be about right. Plus, they'll be heading out of town soon on another adventure and will be getting enough treasure to satisfy them all. I'm just going to have to be more careful in the future when rolling for random treasure.