A quick CR question (ghouls) [Archive] - Wizards Community

A quick CR question (ghouls) [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
The_Dark_One
10-20-04, 01:42 AM Is two second level ghoul rogues and one fourth level ghoul rogue too much to throw at a fifth level party?
Mordmorgan the Mad
10-20-04, 01:45 AM How many characters?
The_Dark_One
10-20-04, 01:52 AM Four or five...
fatal error
10-20-04, 03:16 AM Well it's roughly CR 5+whatever a Ghoul's base CR is, I think. (2 CR 2s + 1 CR 4, average ~ 3, +2 for having two additional combatants + base CR of Ghouls.) So it should be quite tough if I did that right.
MinusInnocence
10-20-04, 03:26 AM The lower-level ghouls together constitute an EL5 encounter, so without the leader it would be balanced. With the leader, you're dealing with EL7; tough, perhaps appropriate as an Adventure-Finisher. However, given the brutal nature of Ghouls in general and the multiple combatants with frequent Fortitude saves and Sneak Attack damage every round, this could potentially be a TPK. Good luck.

If you're interested in severely challenging your party, I would suggest the 2nd level Rogues take Improved Initiative as their feat and the leader needs Ability Focus to improve its inferior Fortitude DCs. Max ranks in Hide and Move Silently will ensure a successful ambush and since Ghouls are intelligent, they either need to Coup-de-Grace fallen opponents before continuing the battle or (if the odds drift to their favor) afford themselves the opportunity to drag prone or unconscious prisoners away. Divide and conquer... emphasize the Intelligence and above-average intellect.

I love Ghouls.
The_Dark_One
10-20-04, 03:51 AM It would be really bad to put in:

If any character demonstrates the capacity for Divine magic or makes an attempt to turn the ghouls (and fails) all three ghouls focus on the character. Once he is brought down, one of the ghouls will drag him off into the cornfield and coup de grace him until he is completely dead.

wouldn't it?

Oh' it isn't the last encounter. The ghouls are part of my entry for the October contest found:

Here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=318039)
FriendoftheDork
10-20-04, 07:27 AM I didn't really think ghouls advanced by character class at all. But they're not mindless, so perhaps it's possible... although I think they're too... monstrous to become rogues, I mean you don't see ghouls in thieves guilds do you? What's next? Ghoul wizards?

I think it's better to use Ghasts or give the ghouls more HD. You don't get much "class" by spending all your time in tombs eating rotting human flesh.

Still, it's your game, but you should make an in game reason why these ghouls are so advanced, perhaps they're created and trained by some evil necromancer, giving them special training and making them more human?
Escef
10-20-04, 07:45 AM I didn't really think ghouls advanced by character class at all. But they're not mindless, so perhaps it's possible... although I think they're too... monstrous to become rogues, I mean you don't see ghouls in thieves guilds do you? What's next? Ghoul wizards?

I think rogue is the only logical character class for a ghoul. Makes it a much more dangerous stalker. Second to that would be barbarian. I honestly don't see Ghouls as wizards seems to much for their limited mindset, but the average ghoul does have enough intelligence to cast 3rd level spells. If they had arcane magic I'd peg them as the sorcerer type, doesn't require one to think or study the way the wizard class would.
Phrennzy
10-20-04, 09:33 AM I could see ghouls as rogues, and that's about it - I mean, they sneak around the graves and lurch out to grab you. Horrid.

Part of it depends on how many clerics are in this party - turning can really upset the encounter.

But also keep in mind that they get three attacks each - and each attack causes paralysis. So that is one tough encounter.

Mwah ha ha ha haaaaaaa
VirgilCaine
10-20-04, 10:14 AM I think rogue is the only logical character class for a ghoul. Makes it a much more dangerous stalker. Second to that would be barbarian. I honestly don't see Ghouls as wizards seems to much for their limited mindset, but the average ghoul does have enough intelligence to cast 3rd level spells. If they had arcane magic I'd peg them as the sorcerer type, doesn't require one to think or study the way the wizard class would.

Well, one could have been a wizard before he died.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
The_Dark_One 10-20-04, 01:42 AM	Is two second level ghoul rogues and one fourth level ghoul rogue too much to throw at a fifth level party?
Mordmorgan the Mad 10-20-04, 01:45 AM	How many characters?
The_Dark_One 10-20-04, 01:52 AM	Four or five...
fatal error 10-20-04, 03:16 AM	Well it's roughly CR 5+whatever a Ghoul's base CR is, I think. (2 CR 2s + 1 CR 4, average ~ 3, +2 for having two additional combatants + base CR of Ghouls.) So it should be quite tough if I did that right.
MinusInnocence 10-20-04, 03:26 AM	The lower-level ghouls together constitute an EL5 encounter, so without the leader it would be balanced. With the leader, you're dealing with EL7; tough, perhaps appropriate as an Adventure-Finisher. However, given the brutal nature of Ghouls in general and the multiple combatants with frequent Fortitude saves and Sneak Attack damage every round, this could potentially be a TPK. Good luck. If you're interested in severely challenging your party, I would suggest the 2nd level Rogues take Improved Initiative as their feat and the leader needs Ability Focus to improve its inferior Fortitude DCs. Max ranks in Hide and Move Silently will ensure a successful ambush and since Ghouls are intelligent, they either need to Coup-de-Grace fallen opponents before continuing the battle or (if the odds drift to their favor) afford themselves the opportunity to drag prone or unconscious prisoners away. Divide and conquer... emphasize the Intelligence and above-average intellect. I love Ghouls.
The_Dark_One 10-20-04, 03:51 AM	It would be really bad to put in: If any character demonstrates the capacity for Divine magic or makes an attempt to turn the ghouls (and fails) all three ghouls focus on the character. Once he is brought down, one of the ghouls will drag him off into the cornfield and coup de grace him until he is completely dead. wouldn't it? Oh' it isn't the last encounter. The ghouls are part of my entry for the October contest found: Here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=318039)
FriendoftheDork 10-20-04, 07:27 AM	I didn't really think ghouls advanced by character class at all. But they're not mindless, so perhaps it's possible... although I think they're too... monstrous to become rogues, I mean you don't see ghouls in thieves guilds do you? What's next? Ghoul wizards? I think it's better to use Ghasts or give the ghouls more HD. You don't get much "class" by spending all your time in tombs eating rotting human flesh. Still, it's your game, but you should make an in game reason why these ghouls are so advanced, perhaps they're created and trained by some evil necromancer, giving them special training and making them more human?
Escef 10-20-04, 07:45 AM	I didn't really think ghouls advanced by character class at all. But they're not mindless, so perhaps it's possible... although I think they're too... monstrous to become rogues, I mean you don't see ghouls in thieves guilds do you? What's next? Ghoul wizards? I think rogue is the only logical character class for a ghoul. Makes it a much more dangerous stalker. Second to that would be barbarian. I honestly don't see Ghouls as wizards seems to much for their limited mindset, but the average ghoul does have enough intelligence to cast 3rd level spells. If they had arcane magic I'd peg them as the sorcerer type, doesn't require one to think or study the way the wizard class would.
Phrennzy 10-20-04, 09:33 AM	I could see ghouls as rogues, and that's about it - I mean, they sneak around the graves and lurch out to grab you. Horrid. Part of it depends on how many clerics are in this party - turning can really upset the encounter. But also keep in mind that they get three attacks each - and each attack causes paralysis. So that is one tough encounter. Mwah ha ha ha haaaaaaa
VirgilCaine 10-20-04, 10:14 AM	I think rogue is the only logical character class for a ghoul. Makes it a much more dangerous stalker. Second to that would be barbarian. I honestly don't see Ghouls as wizards seems to much for their limited mindset, but the average ghoul does have enough intelligence to cast 3rd level spells. If they had arcane magic I'd peg them as the sorcerer type, doesn't require one to think or study the way the wizard class would. Well, one could have been a wizard before he died.