Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Johnny_Angel 10-18-07, 10:23 PM	I've started a campaign using Frostburn; as such, the campaign is taking place in an area of extreme cold. (no problems there) So, the group went through the normal process of creating characters; a few of them wrote up quick background stories for their characters. One of players said that she was raised by her uncle; the rest of her family had been killed by a red dragon -unusual for the environment, but it's her character, so no big deal. Well, one of the other players started somewhat making fun of her,"Red Dragons wouldn't be in this area, etc, etc." I mentioned to the second player that even though it was unusual that there was no need to make fun of a fellow player. (no problem there.) So, now, as a favor to the first player (and because I like to plant plot seeds based on backgrounds) I'm trying to figure out what reason there would be for a red dragon to make its lair in such a cold environment. I've considered possibly using a half-red dragon white dragon, but I'm not sure. Whatever I use, it will be somethingthat they don't encounter for quite some time yet, but I like to plan ahead, so I'm trying to come up with some ideas. I know D&D is a fantasy game, but I still try to make things make sense logically. So, how can I fit a Red Dragon into the mix of a cool, refreshing Campaign Slushy?
Mock26 10-18-07, 10:27 PM	Just plop a volcano down there somewhere. It would be constantly shrouded in mists and such, and you could even put some lush tropical growth upon sections of its slopes and sections of dead growth where the heat had shifted a bit. And, living in a cave deep in the heart of the volcano is a red dragon. You can give him a necklace of warmth or something as well as some proof against cold based attacks. PS Just look at Iceland. It has some of the largest collections of volcanos and geo-thermal activity in the world, and most of it is frozen for a good chunk of the year!
JackSnape 10-18-07, 10:32 PM	In my setting the tallest of mountains are a traditional place for all dragons to go to mate and lay eggs. That doesn't mean all eggs, but dragons like tradition and many eggs are laid there only to be flown to a warmer climate to incubate. Maybe the far north has some significance to dragons, and they make a yearly pilgramage.
Johnny_Angel 10-18-07, 10:46 PM	Just plop a volcano down there somewhere. It would be constantly shrouded in mists and such, and you could even put some lush tropical growth upon sections of its slopes and sections of dead growth where the heat had shifted a bit. And, living in a cave deep in the heart of the volcano is a red dragon. You can give him a necklace of warmth or something as well as some proof against cold based attacks. PS Just look at Iceland. It has some of the largest collections of volcanos and geo-thermal activity in the world, and most of it is frozen for a good chunk of the year! I like the volcano idea. I was not aware that Iceland had so many volcanos.
Artector 10-18-07, 10:50 PM	It could have been driven out of the warmer climates and into the cold-area (frozen waste, tundra, artic, what-have-you)
Mock26 10-18-07, 11:01 PM	I like the volcano idea. I was not aware that Iceland had so many volcanos. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iceland#Geological_and_volcanic_activity
Johnny_Angel 10-18-07, 11:02 PM	The volcano idea has inspired me. It seems so simple, but I just hadn't thought of it before. Anyway, I imagine that a creature such as a Red Dragon would be a force to be reckoned with in an artic area. Red Dragons are powerful anyway, but controlling fire -I imagine- would have a devestating effect on an area in which most creatures are cold based and most settlements are built using snow and ice based materials. Along that train of though, I've considered having the Red Dragon be sorta worshipped/revered as a god or king of sorts. One of the other villains I have already written up is a Frost Giant who has a loyal following of Snow Goblins. Perhaps these two villains could be rivals of one another. This rivalry wouldn't be something which necessarily has a direct impact on the PCs, but throughout their adventures they may come across small scale battles between the followers of the giant and the followers of the dragon. I just have to think about what I'd like to use as the dragon's followerers; the leading candidate at the moment is a tribe of neanderthals.
StevenO 10-18-07, 11:04 PM	If the environmental cold doesn't get to it too much it may find better pickings in the cold. Because so much is resistant to cold nothing is likely to use a cold based attack meaning its vulnerability is minimize; at the sime time all that cold resistance is often vulnerable to the Red's fire.
Guardian1 10-18-07, 11:21 PM	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iceland#Geological_and_volcanic_activity Yeah, my parents and I have been there, but only for a few hours (stupid connecting flights), but in the summer, the southen part of Iceland looks like the Gobi Desert with geo-thermal activity. Seems to me a red dragon would like it there. For additional RL comparisons, look at Hokkaido. Northernmost island in Japan, covered in snow year-round, but due to geo-thermal activity from the Ring of Fire, hot springs are all over the place and its home to a sizable population of monkeys (yes, monkeys!) Perfect place for a red dragon (nothing like a hot bath via fire-breath):lightbulb
Mock26 10-19-07, 01:17 AM	The volcano idea has inspired me. It seems so simple, but I just hadn't thought of it before. Anyway, I imagine that a creature such as a Red Dragon would be a force to be reckoned with in an artic area. Red Dragons are powerful anyway, but controlling fire -I imagine- would have a devestating effect on an area in which most creatures are cold based and most settlements are built using snow and ice based materials. Along that train of though, I've considered having the Red Dragon be sorta worshipped/revered as a god or king of sorts. One of the other villains I have already written up is a Frost Giant who has a loyal following of Snow Goblins. Perhaps these two villains could be rivals of one another. This rivalry wouldn't be something which necessarily has a direct impact on the PCs, but throughout their adventures they may come across small scale battles between the followers of the giant and the followers of the dragon. I just have to think about what I'd like to use as the dragon's followerers; the leading candidate at the moment is a tribe of neanderthals. It could be one of those situations of the enemy of my enemy is my friend. The Frost Giant and the Snow Goblins could be working to restore the "natural" balance of the area with the elimination of the red dragons. So, the Fronst Giant tries to form an alliance with the group and if the group accepts his help he is extremely helpful and actually works with the group to slay the dragon. Of course, once the dragon is dead, the Frost Giant will turn on the group. Or, he'll let the dragon and the group fight it out and then move in and try to pick off the survivors once their weakened by the fight. On the opposite side of this, imagine a white dragon living in a cave in a desert creating lots of ice, which melts into fresh water, and he then sells that water to locals.
Greco 10-19-07, 03:41 AM	The Red dragon has a vendeta against a group of white dragons, and thought the place was an ideal position to attack the white dragon lair. The red dragon turned the location into a low level hot springs. Some consider that the north pole is sitting on top of a volcanic mound so it is do able like JakeSnape indicated.
Absynthe_minded21 10-19-07, 09:39 AM	Maybe he's not a red dragon at all but a white dragon with a sunburn? Or maybe there's a portal to the Astral Plane nearby that a Githyanki outpost is using to ferry supplies from the Prime Material and the red dragon is in league with them, so he makes his home in the Astral, but occassionally visits the Prime to hunt or pillage the local shipping lanes. Or possibly someone stole something from his horde and now he finds himself unable to rest until he reclaims it. Then again, prehaps a long long time ago explorers came across a clutch of dragon eggs and brought one back to their king (jarl? it being an artic area and all) and eventually the egg hatched into a red dragon. True to his nature his eventually turned on his keepers and freed himself but having been hatched here he has no idea that it isn't his natural habitat. Maybe he's cursed by Pelor to turn to stone if he ever sees the sun and lives this far north because the nights here can last for months. It could be that this is some manner of Rite of Passage and that particularly cunning evil dragons are chosen by Tiamat to spend 100 years in their opposite environment to test how truely worthy they are. Also there's a chance that he came here tracking down a group of dragon hunters that had nearly defeated him once before. He slew them, but his wing was mained in the battle and he no longer has the ability to fly. There ya go, 7 possible explainations. My money is on the sunburn though.
icuall 10-19-07, 10:20 AM	Another option is to not have the Volcano be so obvious -no smoking tops, or minor tremors. Volcano and Dragon usually PCs think red dragon. Have the lava run close to the surface and run back down, just close enough to the surface, like in a hilly area, non-mountaneous. The red dragon accesses the lava by a cave opening and goes below to his lair. It's different for him because it is such a frozen environment. The cave system below ground is extensive, so when the PCs expect to find a white dragon. Suddenly there is lava and a red dragon, suprise! PCs love surprises. :D
_Jayne_Cobb_ 10-19-07, 10:27 AM	The possibilities are limitless: a red dragon exile living in fear or shame away from all his kind; an evil mage who uses the illusion of a red dragon to cover his crimes; a clever white dragon that paints itself red to confuse and befuddle it's prey and enemies; a red dragon who was taken as an egg/hatchling and lost to this inhospitable environment when those who took it were slain; a red dragon raising an army of white dragons for some nefarious purpose or nay of a hundred other options. When it comes to D&D, anything is possible.
Uratoh 10-19-07, 06:15 PM	You could always steal one from a webcomic I saw...it had a party going through your normal 'Ice' dungeon with ice trolls, getting ice armor, swords, etc...and at the end, a 'Red' dragon. The party flees in terror, and the final shot is of a white dragon tail tip next to a bucket of red paint. Paint may not be the best choice, but Alter Self is a 2nd lv spell, and I'd imagine changing scale color/texture wouldent be too hard.
Johnny_Angel 10-19-07, 10:15 PM	Another option is to not have the Volcano be so obvious -no smoking tops, or minor tremors. Volcano and Dragon usually PCs think red dragon. Have the lava run close to the surface and run back down, just close enough to the surface, like in a hilly area, non-mountaneous. The red dragon accesses the lava by a cave opening and goes below to his lair. It's different for him because it is such a frozen environment. The cave system below ground is extensive, so when the PCs expect to find a white dragon. Suddenly there is lava and a red dragon, suprise! PCs love surprises. :D I was considering having the mouth of the volcano being close to ground level -similar to how a lot of geysers are. I think a volcano underneath freezing cold water could be an interesting lair.
Necroramo 10-20-07, 12:55 AM	He's making a kingdom up there, all the better that the locals are especially vulnerable to him, and if it screws up the ecology it doesn't matter (that will wake the players up if nothing else does). Enjoy your Frostburn material
metalmayhem80110 10-20-07, 04:39 AM	I like the idea of just coming up to the arctic to dominate the locals. Most of them probably have never seen a red dragon, probably just heard the legends. Well when one of these starts to slaughter people and take over, they will be taken by surprise.
Varia 10-20-07, 09:02 AM	Lots of good ideas in the thread, but a few other things- nothing in the players story as revealed in this thread says the red dragon killed her parents up in the frozen north. They could have been killed while on an expedition far from home while the young kids were left at home, or they could have lived down south when this happened and the uncle and child fled north to escape the dragon. Either way, as it stands, nothing says the dragon attack happened in the north, so if the players backstory permits, the dragon might not live in the north at all, if thats your preference. Someone suggested a pink dragon crossbreed- if you dont like that directly, maybe the red dragon visits the north to see his white dragon mate with intent to make a pink dragon... If its good enough for Everquest (Nagafen and Lady Vox) then you might decide its good enough for you. The only thing I would consider pretty mandatory is that if the dragon DOES live in the north, and is a true red dragon, then it either rarely leave its nice warm lair (because it really isnt naturally suited for northern life in terms of insulation etc. Maybe it even has minions/fearful villagers etc that bring food to it mostly so it never has to go outside), or that it have some form of magic (spells with a 24/7 duration or a permanent item) that protects it from the cold sufficiently well that the outside temperature doesnt bother it. Hawiians (for example) do NOT go live in alaska unless they always stay indoors or have a really good coat to keep them warm, and neither should a red dragon. But a ring of warmth or somesuch is easy enough to arrange, of course. Just ensure its part of his everyday worn equipment is all. :)
Archon-John 10-20-07, 02:47 PM	I was about to say (Before SOMEONE beat me to it...) - I'll never throw a dragon against a group that's the proper color. Every adventurer knows that red are immune to fire and hurt by cold - vice versa for white. Adventurers usually don't have an INT or WIS above 22. Dragons - especially older dragons - have much higher INT and WIS than that... wouldn't they disguise their appearance so the group spends 4 rounds throwing fireballs at the 'White' dragon and wondering why it's not working? (Then the dragon eats them) Just have it be a white dragon with the alter self spell. Life becomes easier.
Johnny_Angel 10-20-07, 03:35 PM	Lots of good ideas in the thread, but a few other things- nothing in the players story as revealed in this thread says the red dragon killed her parents up in the frozen north. They could have been killed while on an expedition far from home while the young kids were left at home, or they could have lived down south when this happened and the uncle and child fled north to escape the dragon. Either way, as it stands, nothing says the dragon attack happened in the north, so if the players backstory permits, the dragon might not live in the north at all, if thats your preference. Someone suggested a pink dragon crossbreed- if you dont like that directly, maybe the red dragon visits the north to see his white dragon mate with intent to make a pink dragon... If its good enough for Everquest (Nagafen and Lady Vox) then you might decide its good enough for you. The only thing I would consider pretty mandatory is that if the dragon DOES live in the north, and is a true red dragon, then it either rarely leave its nice warm lair (because it really isnt naturally suited for northern life in terms of insulation etc. Maybe it even has minions/fearful villagers etc that bring food to it mostly so it never has to go outside), or that it have some form of magic (spells with a 24/7 duration or a permanent item) that protects it from the cold sufficiently well that the outside temperature doesnt bother it. Hawiians (for example) do NOT go live in alaska unless they always stay indoors or have a really good coat to keep them warm, and neither should a red dragon. But a ring of warmth or somesuch is easy enough to arrange, of course. Just ensure its part of his everyday worn equipment is all. :) Good ideas from everyone; thanks again for the input. I think I am going to stick with the true Red Dragon though; I think it will make more sense if there's a reason the dragon spends most of his time in his lair for what I'm trying to do. I figure that a tribe of Neanderthals with red face paint (similar to brave Heart or possibly red claw prints like the Urukai from Lord of The Rings) would make good minions. It also allows me to try something unusual such as creating a Half-Red Dragon Wooly Mammoth. I actually started the game yesterday. The first adventure was figuring out what had happened to the hunters from a small village. The village was run by a man named Jed (and yes, his background is based upon the Beverly Hillbillies guy -with some modifications to fit D&D and Frostburn.) Jed's town was built around a cave bountiful with natural resources that he had stumbled across quite a few years back. Although the town had plenty of resources such as stone, metal, and etc; they still needed to hunt for food because they had no reliable way of getting food otherwise. Jed told the PCs that in recent weeks most of the hunters had mysteriously disappeared. He thought that perhaps they had been killed or eaten by animals, but no remains were found. The only sign that the hunters were ever even there were footprints which seemed to just vanish at a certain point -no blood, no ripped clothing; nothing. Jed wanted to know what had happened to them because he was afraid to send anyone else out to hunt for fear they would also disappear, but the more pressing problem was that he needed to worry about getting food. To make a long story short: The PCs searched and found the tracks. Along the way of following the tracks they came across various things such as wolves shadowing their movements, some bison stampeding as a result of an attack by a predator; finally they could see that the tracks just vanished up ahead. I described that there were some birds sitting on rocks and the ground, but there seemed to be one area of the ground that they all avoided. The PCs discovered and battled a White Pudding for a few rounds (they all had piercing weapons; decided that they weren't well enough prepared to fight something which kept multiplying every time they hit it.) They disengaged the Pudding, and started on their way back to tell Jed what they had found. They heard sounds of battle in the distance; went to see what it was. They could see a group of 3 snow goblins lead by a hobgoblin with blue markings on his shield and armor doing battle with 3 Neanderthals with red face paint lead by another Neanderthal who also had face paint, but also noticably had all of his fur clothing dyed a dark red. The PCs decided it wasn't their place to get involved and just kept going back to town. They told Jed what they had found; I awarded them some XP for unveiling the mystery of the disappearing hunters; I ended the night after Jed had offered to let them stay in the town for the night. Where they go from here depends upon them: Do they decide to try to help Jed get food? Do they hear about some other problems in the town? Do they decide to leave town and seek out adventure elsewhere? edit: not that it really matters, but the snow goblins were low level warriors led by a hobgoblin fighter/warrior; the neaderthals were low level warriors lead by a dragon shaman.
Zombie Carl 10-20-07, 04:15 PM	Whatever you do, please don't choose the half-red, half-white "candycane" dragon! Is it going to look like a barber shop pole? Is it going to be a femanine pink colour? Is it going to shoot out a jet of pleasantly-warm water? Quite possibly! Oh, woe unto all, the Gay Dragon cometh!
Xiuhcoatl 10-20-07, 04:35 PM	I once read of a rather good idea, so this I take no credit for: Make it a "white" dragon. Rumors spread of a powerful white dragon who seems all but unstoppable. No mage has survived an encounter with it, and only hearsay remains from any battle. The PCs will discover, however, in the course of the battle an awful truth: the white dragon is in reality an exiled, albino red dragon who has the cold endurance feat. (And possibly energy resistance spells).
Fireclave 10-20-07, 06:57 PM	The dragon is a powerful influence far down south and has agents everywhere (read: mastermind BBEG). He sent his minions up north a while back to retrieve for him a Magical Whatzits-Whozits of Plot Development. After several months of searching and excavating, the progress reports from his minions suddenly stop coming in. The dragon, who not afraid of getting his hands dirty and suspects either betrayal or that he's been beaten to the prize by another group (rival dragon, dragonborn paladins, King Beardy-Ax, Xykon, whoever), decides it would be faster/easier/cheaper to go retrieve the item himself (with additional minions in tow). Soon after reaching the cold lands of the north, the dragon discovers two things: 1) Some wonderful volcanic caves that would make an excellent, comfortable, secondary base of operation (he's been shopping arround), and 2) the Magical Dingle-bobbit in the possession of the PC's parents. The PC's parents were adventurers (or archaeologists or hunters or something) and stumbled across (engaged) the (half) dead minions and took the Dingus to study or unlock the greater secrets of the nearby Ruins de' Mount Plot Device. It's obvious(?) what fate befell the PC's parents. Years later, enter the PCs.
Derren S. 10-22-07, 08:07 AM	To me it looks like this dragon is perfect to give it the supress/overcome weakness feats from the Draconomicon.
_Jayne_Cobb_ 10-22-07, 10:12 AM	You could always steal one from a webcomic I saw...it had a party going through your normal 'Ice' dungeon with ice trolls, getting ice armor, swords, etc...and at the end, a 'Red' dragon. The party flees in terror, and the final shot is of a white dragon tail tip next to a bucket of red paint. Huh. Never saw the comic but I suggested that idea above. "Great minds think alike" I guess. ;)
Absynthe_minded21 10-22-07, 10:33 AM	Maybe he had his minions make him a fur coat out of polar bear skins?