Post/Author/DateTime	Post
DMaster42 12-22-05, 03:43 PM	i have a player in my game thats playing a lvl 1 Aristocrat/Paladin (see DMG for rules on 1st lvl multi-classing) and everyone else in the game is 3rd lvl. i gave everyone something special for their characters to start off with that made them special or a bit more powerful, but this player refuses to get anything. i dont want him to die so what should i do?
Board_Rider 12-22-05, 03:47 PM	Let him play his character knowing full well that you will not be pulling punches when it comes to his PC. Maybe have him be an Ari 1/Pal 2?
grandaustino 12-22-05, 03:49 PM	He dosen't want an item that would improve his survivabilty? Weird. If he has a deathwish I'm not sure what you can do to help him. Might I inquire why he is behind everyone else exp wise?? Unless he wants to hold back in combat situations, lead from the rear sort of thing. That might fit with the aristocrat level.
FireJewel 12-22-05, 03:51 PM	i have a player in my game thats playing a lvl 1 Aristocrat/Paladin (see DMG for rules on 1st lvl multi-classing) and everyone else in the game is 3rd lvl. i gave everyone something special for their characters to start off with that made them special or a bit more powerful, but this player refuses to get anything. i dont want him to die so what should i do? Keep the CR's fair to the party. If he dies, he dies. If he doesn't want to take the help, there's nothing you can do. He may want to work more of a strategy angle. I'd recommend not trying to "save" his character from death... It wouldn't be fair to the other PC's. It would also mean that his actions had no consequences.
Escef 12-22-05, 03:54 PM	Aristocrat is a fairly weak class to be combined with Paladin. The proficiencies are nothing to write home about, no special features, the only thing going for it are the skills. I think the player would've done better by taking the blow to hp's and going Expert/Paladin, but maybe that's just me. At any rate, he should have another level to bring him even with the rest of the party. And don't worry about him being under-powered, depending on the player, inventiveness can often overcome less than spectacular ability.
DraconsNighthawk 12-22-05, 04:34 PM	OMG, someone did that? Maybe he wants to you know.... Roleplay? Paladins are know as knights. Most of the time, Knights are of Royality, and nothing fits that like Aristcrat. Maybe giving him a special item in the form of a family herlom? Some kind of necklace, or weapon? Maybe even the royal ring of protection +2? Wouldn't be overpoweerd too much, and help him in the long run. I'm intrequge by this player, and hope to see more of it!
DMaster42 12-22-05, 05:06 PM	i would give him an item to enhance his power but he refused to let me give him one. The whole reason why he wanted to be so behind the party is that he wanted to be a kid... a 12 yr old in fact. He wanted to play the comic relief character in the party. So it's a roleplaying thing. Which is good, but he has to realise that I'm not gonna go easy on him just because he's weak.
Mirage_1 12-22-05, 05:16 PM	i have a player in my game thats playing a lvl 1 Aristocrat/Paladin (see DMG for rules on 1st lvl multi-classing) and everyone else in the game is 3rd lvl. i gave everyone something special for their characters to start off with that made them special or a bit more powerful, but this player refuses to get anything. i dont want him to die so what should i do? odd about the items, but why is he playing a 1st level character in a party of 3rd level?
Seen 12-22-05, 05:24 PM	odd about the items, but why is he playing a 1st level character in a party of 3rd level? He's 2nd level, for one, and it seems like he wanted to be weaker to represent the fact that he's playing a 12 year old child. Seems fine to me - I don't think the player is too concerned with being underpowered either. All you have to do as a DM is run them up against intelligent monsters (why would they attack the 'kid' instead of the huge orc fighter or the powerful looking sorcerer, hmm?). Then you won't have to worry about the Aristopally dying.
Mirage_1 12-22-05, 05:31 PM	He's 2nd level, for one, and it seems like he wanted to be weaker to represent the fact that he's playing a 12 year old child. Seems fine to me - I don't think the player is too concerned with being underpowered either. I was saying he was 1st level because the OP said he was 1st level, using the rules for multi-classing a 1st level character (was in 3.0 DMG, not it 3.5 DMG). I could be missunderstanding the OP though as far as the player being concerned about being underpowered, the whole point of the thread is that the DM is worried about him being underpowered as to logical roleplaying...why would the party bring a 12yr old along with them anyway.
Crossover-Chronicler 12-22-05, 05:36 PM	OMG, someone did that? Maybe he wants to you know.... Roleplay? Paladins are know as knights. Most of the time, Knights are of Royality, and nothing fits that like Aristcrat. Maybe giving him a special item in the form of a family herlom? Some kind of necklace, or weapon? Maybe even the royal ring of protection +2? Wouldn't be overpoweerd too much, and help him in the long run. I'm intrequge by this player, and hope to see more of it!Bah. An Aristocrat/Paladin combo for roleplaying purposes is one thing, but what this character is playing is another.i have a player in my game thats playing a lvl 1 Aristocrat/Paladin (see DMG for rules on 1st lvl multi-classing) and everyone else in the game is 3rd lvl. i gave everyone something special for their characters to start off with that made them special or a bit more powerful, but this player refuses to get anything.He's not only playing an NPC class, he's using the optional multiclassing rules so that he still isn't above 1st level. Roleplaying an aristocratic background still doesn't require playing to a lower level. Rather, that is addressed here:The whole reason why he wanted to be so behind the party is that he wanted to be a kid... a 12 yr old in fact. He wanted to play the comic relief character in the party. So it's a roleplaying thing."Roleplaying thing" or not, this kind of thing always strikes me as a red flag. Many characters of this general type ("underpowered" based on "roleplaying considerations" and especially "comic relief" and "children" characters) are troublemakers. Often as not, they seem like attempts to get away with being a real nuisance to the rest of the party, especially if the rest of the party values roleplaying ("His own fault or not, we can't leave him! He's just a kid!").
Seen 12-22-05, 05:36 PM	was saying he was 1st level because the OP said he was 1st level, using the rules for multi-classing a 1st level character (was in 3.0 DMG, not it 3.5 DMG). I could be missunderstanding the OP though No sir, you are correct - my mistake. My other point though I think is still valid, that any intelligent monster (or person) would go after the larger threats first. This means as a DM, if you pick your targets right, you won't end up accidentally killing him off. Also, if you're concerned with him not bringing much to the table in terms of combat, just build the encounter levels around the rest of the party (excluding the aristopally) - in the end, all he'll do is take a small piece of the party's experience (I doubt they'd notice). Personally, I like to play weaker-than-average characters, so I can understand where this guy is coming from. Some people don't have to be heroes, D&D is as much about interactions, puzzles, and strategy as it is about straight-up combat.
Mirage_1 12-22-05, 05:40 PM	No sir, you are correct - my mistake. My other point though I think is still valid, that any intelligent monster (or person) would go after the larger threats first. This means as a DM, if you pick your targets right, you won't end up accidentally killing him off. Also, if you're concerned with him not bringing much to the table in terms of combat, just build the encounter levels around the rest of the party (excluding the aristopally) - in the end, all he'll do is take a small piece of the party's experience (I doubt they'd notice). Personally, I like to play weaker-than-average characters, so I can understand where this guy is coming from. Some people don't have to be heroes, D&D is as much about interactions, puzzles, and strategy as it is about straight-up combat. I only sorta agree with ya concerning intelligent creatures...depends on how intelligent. If very intelligent, they might specifically grab the kid, as hostage. If moderately intelligent could still grab the kid if things are going badly. This is assuming intelligent creatures. Kid could simply be viewed as a snack. In any case...still have the question of...for the same reason intelligent monsters wouldn't target the kid, why would the party bring the kid along
Seen 12-22-05, 05:50 PM	I only sorta agree with ya concerning intelligent creatures...depends on how intelligent. If very intelligent, they might specifically grab the kid, as hostage. If moderately intelligent could still grab the kid if things are going badly. It's a good thing that in D&D, the kid would probably be fine even if he was 'grabbed'. It's not like he can just ready a Coup de Grace if the party decides not to lay down their arms. And the kid might have Escape Artist or simply have decent enough stats that his grapple score aint bad. And being so low level, it's not like an enemy mage could teleport away with the kid. Even in a grapple, PCs with precise shot could still just peg the guy holding him lol. I love D&D, don't get me wrong, but realism takes a back seat sometimes :)
DMaster42 12-22-05, 06:11 PM	Just to clarify this up: The party is almost centered around him. Thats why they have him in the party. You see his Paladin mentor is an NPC in the party and his servant/advisor is the party Wizard. Also the the Wizard and the Cleric have met and worked together before. So most of the party either works for him, teaches him, or knows him personally. Plus his parents were hung when he was a baby and he was thrown on the street to die... but thats another story. :schemes: :evillaugh
Seen 12-22-05, 06:19 PM	It sounds like a great backdrop for an interesting story - and makes for some potentially interesting encounters where they attempt to protect the kid from danger (and where the kid miraculously saves their butts on the rare occasion).
ubernex 12-22-05, 06:20 PM	Just to clarify this up: The party is almost centered around him. Thats why they have him in the party. You see his Paladin mentor is an NPC in the party and his servant/advisor is the party Wizard. Also the the Wizard and the Cleric have met and worked together before. So most of the party either works for him, teaches him, or knows him personally. Plus his parents were hung when he was a baby and he was thrown on the street to die... but thats another story. :schemes: :evillaugh Have your main plot villan steal/trap his soul. Gets the character out of the way, yet keeping the charcter and the character's plot points central to the party. Seriously I hate kids, It might have been better to have him be playing the mentor and let the kid be an NPC. Oh well. I meanit really depends on what you folks will be doing: Intrigue, plot, and the talking stuff: Won't be a problem, the character will actually add something to the roleplay. Swords and Sorecery: The kid has no bussiness being there, see "trap the soul" solution. Or if you don't mind loosing the plot thread that depends on him, let the charcter tag along until it gets eaten. If he makes it a couple of levels he'll have more or less caught up with the rest of the party as he is only slightly behind them level-wise. Pretty easy to lose the low-level gap.
revnk 12-22-05, 06:25 PM	OMG, someone did that? Maybe he wants to you know.... Roleplay? Paladins are know as knights. Most of the time, Knights are of Royality, and nothing fits that like Aristcrat. Maybe giving him a special item in the form of a family herlom? Some kind of necklace, or weapon? Maybe even the royal ring of protection +2? Wouldn't be overpoweerd too much, and help him in the long run. I'm intrequge by this player, and hope to see more of it! I agree. In addition to items, you might consider stealing an idea from the A Game Of Thrones RPG and give him some level of politcal influence that adds an ECL to his character to bring into line with the other characters: the kid is hiding under a rock in a fight, but in town he can use his familial connections to call in favors that would be unavailable to normal 3rd level characters. Or not. It's your call. But it sounds like you have someone more interested in roleplay than min/maxing a build, and many DMs prefer refereeing those kinds of players. Personally--and maybe I'm just a crazy minority--I don't consider those kinds of players "troublemakers" or a problem (although they may challenge me to be a better DM by forcing me to be a little less conventional in my approach to writing adventures). This is certainly not to criticize those who prefer a different style of gaming: I frankly could care less whether someone else's table ever rolls dice or how often or which books they're using. It is, however, to respectfully suggest to the original poster that his player may be presenting the group with an opportunity. The child could have some importance, either known to himself or discovered over the course of sessions. The character could be a kind of sidekick or "adopted" child for another player character (for instance, think of the relationship between Ripley and Newt in Aliens, or the relationship between One and Miette in La Cité des Enfants Perdus (The City Of Lost Children)). There might be situations where the child's skills and rank have special applicability or importance (diplomatic negotiations, haggling, etc.). Even the child's size or youth might be especially important in an adventure involving, for instance, a gang of thieving orphans or one of the shorter races (gnomes, kobolds, etc.). One last thought: it is the DM's responsibility, if possible, to talk to the players before a campaign starts about their character concepts and plans. If something like this is going to be a "problem" or cause "situations," you certainly could avoid it by telling your player before he makes his character that his idea will not work in a particular campaign you're planning: character design should ideally be a dialogue between DM and player. I could go on in this vein, but perhaps I've said too much already.... However you deal with it, I wish you and your group the best of luck and much good gaming in the new year ahead.
feartheinvinceblehamster 12-22-05, 06:31 PM	have a crazed doctor wizard permanently implant a amulet of natural armor +2 into him.
DMaster42 12-23-05, 07:36 AM	The kid would have some power in the government of one of the countries if his parents hadn't been hung for treason. I like the of trapping his soul... :devil: :schemes: :evillaugh :heehee . It gives me lots of... plans... :evillaugh :schemes:
DMaster42 12-23-05, 07:40 AM	One last thought: it is the DM's responsibility, if possible, to talk to the players before a campaign starts about their character concepts and plans. If something like this is going to be a "problem" or cause "situations," you certainly could avoid it by telling your player before he makes his character that his idea will not work in a particular campaign you're planning: character design should ideally be a dialogue between DM and player. I could go on in this vein, but perhaps I've said too much already.... However you deal with it, I wish you and your group the best of luck and much good gaming in the new year ahead. I tried to talk to him about before he made his character, and while he made his character. I was somewhat successful too. Originally he was going to be a 1st lvl commoner who followed this NPC Paladin around everywhere.
loaba 12-23-05, 07:49 AM	Bah. An Aristocrat/Paladin combo for roleplaying purposes is one thing, but what this character is playing is another. I have to agree with this. Paladins, as presented in the PHB, could easily have an aristocratic background. It is in no way neccesary to RP that via NPC levels. Why then has the player deliberatly gimped himself? "Roleplaying thing" or not, this kind of thing always strikes me as a red flag. Many characters of this general type ("underpowered" based on "roleplaying considerations" and especially "comic relief" and "children" characters) are troublemakers. Often as not, they seem like attempts to get away with being a real nuisance to the rest of the party, especially if the rest of the party values roleplaying ("His own fault or not, we can't leave him! He's just a kid!"). Again, I agree with this assessment. I would have told the player, at the time of character creation, that in order for him even consider playing a 12-yr old character (that is a paladin canidate no less) certain things would have to fall into place. For this character to be adventuring out in the world, in the role he has chosen, there pretty much has to be a more accomplished Paladin who he is traveling with (as a squire).
DMaster42 12-23-05, 09:18 AM	I have to agree with this. Paladins, as presented in the PHB, could easily have an aristocratic background. It is in no way neccesary to RP that via NPC levels. Why then has the player deliberatly gimped himself? He just wanted to to be something interesting and new, whatever the consequences. He is just like that. He always plays out of the ordinary characters. But to answer your question a little better: He didn't purposefully "gimp" himself. His character was born to a family of nobility and was being trained as such. Then when his parents were hung for treason a Paladin found him on the streets and raised him in both classes (since the character had had some training in Aristocrat already). So really he made himself more powerful. Again, I agree with this assessment. I would have told the player, at the time of character creation, that in order for him even consider playing a 12-yr old character (that is a paladin canidate no less) certain things would have to fall into place. For this character to be adventuring out in the world, in the role he has chosen, there pretty much has to be a more accomplished Paladin who he is traveling with (as a squire). There is an accomplished Paladin who is his mentor in the party that watches over him. Plus his most trusted servant and advisor is the party Wizard. He isn't a lone 12 year old out adventuring in the world with a group of random adventurers.
Mirage_1 12-23-05, 09:24 AM	I have to agree with this. Paladins, as presented in the PHB, could easily have an aristocratic background. It is in no way neccesary to RP that via NPC levels. Why then has the player deliberatly gimped himself? I agree totally I would have told the player, at the time of character creation, that in order for him even consider playing a 12-yr old character (that is a paladin canidate no less) certain things would have to fall into place. For this character to be adventuring out in the world, in the role he has chosen, there pretty much has to be a more accomplished Paladin who he is traveling with (as a squire). sounds like this is the case The party is almost centered around him. Thats why they have him in the party. You see his Paladin mentor is an NPC in the party and his servant/advisor is the party Wizard. I would be concerned about 2 things 1. survivability - obviously the DM is concerned (even if the player isn't). However, I wouldn't pull punches because he wants to play a gimped character 2. roleplaying - hope it is a good group, people could get annoyed having to obey orders from another player, and a player that makes this character has me worried to begin with
Mirage_1 12-23-05, 09:25 AM	He just wanted to to be something interesting and new, whatever the consequences. He is just like that. He always plays out of the ordinary characters. But to answer your question a little better: He didn't purposefully "gimp" himself. His character was born to a family of nobility and was being trained as such. Then when his parents were hung for treason a Paladin found him on the streets and raised him in both classes (since the character had had some training in Aristocrat already). So really he made himself more powerful. how does being 2 levels behind the rest of the party and being the son of nobility that was executed for treason make him more powerful and not gimped?
loaba 12-23-05, 09:34 AM	how does being 2 levels behind the rest of the party and being the son of nobility that was executed for treason make him more powerful and not gimped? Sub-question: and why can't this character concept be accomplished with a 3rd level paladin (who would then be an equal within the party)? If it were me, this character would be a 2nd character for the player and he would actually be a squire to another character within the same group.
Edrick_Malichi 12-23-05, 09:46 AM	Is the player refusing the items, or the character? If it's the player... eh, I'll say it - I hate players like that. If it's the character, the character isn't fit to be an aristocrat or a paladin. Who is he to deny anyone his presence when it is needed by not accepting additional protection? Although he is only 12 - very rarely is anyone fit for any job at age 12, so this can change. Make him have a near death encounter. Let him hit -8 or so. Let the party find a magical trinket that if he had it would have saved them the hastle and scare of loosing him. The party then instructs him that self preservation isn't selfish and gives him the item in character. If the character (*cough, player, cough*) still refuses the item, then fine. You have already expressed to the player that you are not comfortable running a game with this character, so you should run it as you will. (Don't ignore him - give him plot hooks and special situations, just like any other PC, but do combat as you want to) That's my 12-cents. Hope it helps in some way or another.
DMaster42 12-23-05, 02:49 PM	Sub-question: and why can't this character concept be accomplished with a 3rd level paladin (who would then be an equal within the party)? To answer your question: The character concept might work with being 3rd level, but his age doesn't. Almost his entire life has been devoted to learning the basics of Paladin life and combat. He's only 12. Most Humans don't start adventuring until they're at least 16.
Azerith 12-23-05, 03:12 PM	i have a player in my game thats playing a lvl 1 Aristocrat/Paladin (see DMG for rules on 1st lvl multi-classing) and everyone else in the game is 3rd lvl. i gave everyone something special for their characters to start off with that made them special or a bit more powerful, but this player refuses to get anything. i dont want him to die so what should i do? This is just an idea. Maybe you could let him think that he has nothing special, but maybe give him some type of indirect support that he will come to figure out later in the story. This can add some more roleplay value to the game as well. The support could probably be a favoring of a certain god that sees that he has potential, so once in a while "this god" can help him out in minor ways at first.
DMaster42 12-23-05, 03:15 PM	This is just an idea. Maybe you could let him think that he has nothing special, but maybe give him some type of indirect support that he will come to figure out later in the story. This can add some more roleplay value to the game as well. The support could probably be a favoring of a certain god that sees that he has potential, so once in a while "this god" can help him out in minor ways at first. That's a pretty good idea.
DMaster42 12-28-05, 11:20 AM	i just got the DMG II and i think i found something interesting to give him its called Past Life. it should b useful to him. it grants a +2 to AC and some other stuff.
Talonz 12-28-05, 01:56 PM	This isn't a weak player, but a weak character. And did people not read that he doesn't want any item/bonus? Perhaps the dm and group should sit down and discuss the fact that this character will be weak in combat. I'm sure they all realize this, but the point is to determine how this impacts the game. Do they want to drive the campaign in a non-combat way? That would be far more interesting to me than simple combat driven characters. Although 'comic relief kid' is a lame concept, the aristocratic paladin 'kid' is a more interesting angle.
DMaster42 12-28-05, 03:01 PM	And did people not read that he doesn't want any item/bonus? Perhaps the dm and group should sit down and discuss the fact that this character will be weak in combat. I'm sure they all realize this, but the point is to determine how this impacts the game. Do they want to drive the campaign in a non-combat way? That would be far more interesting to me than simple combat driven characters. Although 'comic relief kid' is a lame concept, the aristocratic paladin 'kid' is a more interesting angle. I have been wodering why people have been suggesting that i offer him bonuses and items when i said at the beginning that he refused them. This campaign is actually ment to be more of a role-playing campaign than i fighting one, but i don't expect some of my players to get that... they never have.
Nitan 12-28-05, 03:09 PM	I may be wrong, but this just seems to be a way of getting extra attention. Let him play his weaker character. The exp rules will allow him to catch up with the rest quickly. Worst comes to worst he has to make a new character when his is horribly butchered. Maybe it'll be a crazy bag-wearing hobo with a scalpal this time. That's plenty of comic relief there.
DMaster42 12-30-05, 10:50 AM	I just played the first adventure with him. He turned out to be a 'special' teenager. He needs help from the party to find the simplest of tasks and constantly showers endless praise on his mentor, asking her for everything. The party had to shut him up on numerous occaisons. The party was stopping in a city, fleeing an evil cult when he went up to the cultists who were persuing the party in the streets, telling them information regarding the party's mission and location (he thought they were going to be his friends). After the cultists captured him, the party had to go through a delicate hostage situation in order to get him back. Later, when the party was storming the base of the evil cult, he tried to headbutt doors to open them and tried to sell stuff to the cultists.
revnk 12-30-05, 11:54 AM	I just played the first adventure with him. He turned out to be a 'special' teenager. He needs help from the party to find the simplest of tasks and constantly showers endless praise on his mentor, asking her for everything. The party had to shut him up on numerous occaisons. The party was stopping in a city, fleeing an evil cult when he went up to the cultists who were persuing the party in the streets, telling them information regarding the party's mission and location (he thought they were going to be his friends). After the cultists captured him, the party had to go through a delicate hostage situation in order to get him back. Later, when the party was storming the base of the evil cult, he tried to headbutt doors to open them and tried to sell stuff to the cultists. Perhaps talk to the player about where he's going with this. If he's planning on having the character grow up, ride it out. If he has no idea what he's doing and is just trying to be funny, you'll want to keep an eye on him and/or consider warning him that problem behavior--even if it's in character--won't be tolerated if it keeps the group from having a good time. I'm not sure I'd warn him yet: you may want to give it a few sessions and see how the group reacts--they may enjoy the antics and it may be an entertaining part of the group dynamic. A number of years ago--it was probably around '93--I was running a d6 Star Wars where a player used a Force Point--a precious commodity intended to allow player characters to blow up Death Stars and perform other acts of heroism--to hit on an NPC who was incidental to the plot. A total, mind-blowing waste of a valuable group asset. (The NPC was daughter of a scientist, the player used the point to master the scientist's arcane and irrelevant field of study, thinking it would impress the young lady, not realizing she was bored to tears by daddy's work.) Here's the thing, though: a decade-plus later, buddies of mine still talk about what the player did, while the clever little things I wrote up for the adventure are all but forgotten. Did the player do something obnoxious and Dumb? Absolutely. Was it annoying to the GM (me) at the time? Certainly. Do I love him for making something I was running a memorable group experience for years and years and years to come, through players' graduations, careers, marriages, divorces, children, etc., etc., etc.? How could I not? I haven't seen the guy who blew the Force Point since college, but he's provided the lot of us with a classic and amusing incident to laugh about for more than a decade. It may be that you need to rein your player in; but before you do that too quickly, you may want to take the gamble that he's creating a memorable experience for your group and should be given a chance to run with it. Which is why you might want to give it a few sessions before you jump in. In any case, good luck.
Leagle 12-30-05, 01:22 PM	Later, when the party was storming the base of the evil cult, he tried to headbutt doors to open them and tried to sell stuff to the cultists. The death of his parents at such a tender age has obviously traumatised him. :rofl: I can only second Revnk, and also recommend you read A song of Ice and Fire, by George R.R. Martin. (http://www.georgerrmartin.com)
MSW 12-30-05, 01:30 PM	i have a player in my game thats playing a lvl 1 Aristocrat/Paladin (see DMG for rules on 1st lvl multi-classing) and everyone else in the game is 3rd lvl. i gave everyone something special for their characters to start off with that made them special or a bit more powerful, but this player refuses to get anything. i dont want him to die so what should i do?Give him a list of 10 NPC contacts. These are people he knows/that know him because of his Aristocrat back ground. Though not as useful as a ring of protection or a cool weapon -- it will definately be useful at some point in the game.
Fergie 12-30-05, 01:54 PM	Player makes 12 year old spoiled brat character, then role-plays it as such, annoying EVERYONE. Surprise, surprise, surprise. There is a reason people avoid hanging out with childish brats to begin with, and this player has made it very clear. THEY **** PEOPLE OFF! I really can't imagine wasting my free time hanging out with annoying little kids in a FANTASY world. If you don't fix this guy, or KILL him, another player will, and it may mess up things worse then they already are. If you do want to keep this guy, make him a pal lvl 3, but make him small (with all STR and Con penalties) until he is older. There is also the idea of giving him one of his fathers items even if he doesn't want it, it is REQUIRED by his bloodline. Also, you could allow his fathers warhorse to be his special mount a few levels sooner then normal.
DMaster42 12-30-05, 01:58 PM	Perhaps talk to the player about where he's going with this. If he's planning on having the character grow up, ride it out. If he has no idea what he's doing and is just trying to be funny, you'll want to keep an eye on him and/or consider warning him that problem behavior--even if it's in character--won't be tolerated if it keeps the group from having a good time. I'm not sure I'd warn him yet: you may want to give it a few sessions and see how the group reacts--they may enjoy the antics and it may be an entertaining part of the group dynamic. A number of years ago--it was probably around '93--I was running a d6 Star Wars where a player used a Force Point--a precious commodity intended to allow player characters to blow up Death Stars and perform other acts of heroism--to hit on an NPC who was incidental to the plot. A total, mind-blowing waste of a valuable group asset. (The NPC was daughter of a scientist, the player used the point to master the scientist's arcane and irrelevant field of study, thinking it would impress the young lady, not realizing she was bored to tears by daddy's work.) Here's the thing, though: a decade-plus later, buddies of mine still talk about what the player did, while the clever little things I wrote up for the adventure are all but forgotten. Did the player do something obnoxious and Dumb? Absolutely. Was it annoying to the GM (me) at the time? Certainly. Do I love him for making something I was running a memorable group experience for years and years and years to come, through players' graduations, careers, marriages, divorces, children, etc., etc., etc.? How could I not? I haven't seen the guy who blew the Force Point since college, but he's provided the lot of us with a classic and amusing incident to laugh about for more than a decade. It may be that you need to rein your player in; but before you do that too quickly, you may want to take the gamble that he's creating a memorable experience for your group and should be given a chance to run with it. Which is why you might want to give it a few sessions before you jump in. In any case, good luck. Thanks for the advice. I think we all enjoyed his antics and it did give us all a good laugh. I will keep an eye on him though... two if I spare them.
RogerWilco 12-30-05, 02:08 PM	I would just have him be a regular level 3 paladin, but size modified to small: SMALL CHARACTERS A Small character gets a +1 size bonus to Armor Class, a +1 size bonus on attack rolls, and a +4 size bonus on Hide checks. A Small character’s carrying capacity is three-quarters of that of a Medium character. A Small character generally moves about two-thirds as fast as a Medium character. A Small character must use smaller weapons than a Medium character. And maybe some of the aging effects: 1 At middle age, –1 to Str, Dex, and Con; +1 to Int, Wis, and Cha. 2 At old age, –2 to Str, Dex, and Con; +1 to Int, Wis, and Cha. 3 At venerable age, –3 to Str, Dex, and Con; +1 to Int, Wis, and Cha. For example: teenager, –1 to Str, Dex, and Con; +1 to Cha. youngster, –2 to Str, and Con; +1 to Cha. Child, –3 to Str, and Con; +1 to Cha. Cummulative of course, like for aging. This way you can have him "grow up" during the campaign. However it does sound more like the player wants to play an irritating kender-like character, so I'm not so sure it's agood idea.
DMaster42 12-30-05, 02:31 PM	However it does sound more like the player wants to play an irritating kender-like character, so I'm not so sure it's agood idea. Yeah a Kender that doesn't "aquire" other people's possesions.
jgmafia1 12-30-05, 03:41 PM	I just played the first adventure with him. He turned out to be a 'special' teenager. He needs help from the party to find the simplest of tasks and constantly showers endless praise on his mentor, asking her for everything. The party had to shut him up on numerous occaisons. I've been in campagns where people just blabber on randomly like the character you're talking about. In my opinion, it can be very annoying and it slows down the game sometimes. I have to wonder however how the party and this character still live through all the trouble that he causes. How does the party put up with him?
DMaster42 12-30-05, 09:40 PM	I've been in campagns where people just blabber on randomly like the character you're talking about. In my opinion, it can be very annoying and it slows down the game sometimes. I have to wonder however how the party and this character still live through all the trouble that he causes. How does the party put up with him? I sometimes wonder that myself. It's a lot of luck I think, but only the players truly know. I like having him there. He gives my monsters something to toy with and extract information from. :schemes: :evillaugh :plotting:
DMaster42 01-02-06, 08:39 AM	Hmm... I wonder what this paladin'll do if the party cleric starts hitting on the female cleric again?... :plotting: :lightbulb . I suppose he can't help himself... the paladin mentor does have the Unearthly Beauty trait from DMG II. :drool: I think I'm going to have a talk with the player and ask him if he plans to have his character grow up during the campaign. If he doesn't then oh well it's hilarious to have him like this. I do wish that he would except a magic item or something though.
smoker 01-02-06, 11:54 AM	If you're afraid your player is too weak, send the player to a gym. smoker
DMaster42 01-05-06, 12:27 PM	If you're afraid your player is too weak, send the player to a gym. smoker Ok... that's not exactly what I meant, but...
SureFoot 01-05-06, 02:54 PM	You might want to read the DMG section on NPC classes, specifically the part where they say that NPC classes are not designed to be adventuring classes (hence the name "NPC classes") because they're not balanced as such. It is entirely within the DM's pervue to restrict classes that he feels are inappropriate (and many, if not most, DMs would probably consider an NPC class as inappropriate for adventuring).
DMaster42 01-11-06, 08:41 AM	I talked to the player and he says that he has plans for his character. I hope that at some point that means he'll grow up, but for right now it's hilarious to have him like this. I do wish he would accept a magic item or something though.
DMaster42 01-16-06, 08:55 AM	I just played the second session with him and he actually didn't get the party into a life or death situation this time. He almost spoke a bit too loud in the lair of the cult, but the enemy didn't hear him because the party cleric shut him up. Also in this session we find my plan for him. He is a reincarnation of the greatest paladin the world has ever known, Brandar. These next few sessions should be most interesting. :plotting: :evillaugh :schemes: