A Shadowy Tale... [Archive] - Wizards Community

A Shadowy Tale... [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Rome_Leader
03-03-06, 01:55 PM OK, so in my cmapagin, I incorperated a challenge where there was a monster who's shadow was his main method of attack. You could not, in fact, see the monster itself. So, I realize exp. is awarded for overcom,ing the challenge, but how would you do this, considering you can't kill the monster, nor kill a shadow? :confused: My PC Cleric suggested gettnig rid of the shadow with a pwoerful lgiht spell...
Ace the Dead
03-03-06, 02:04 PM OK, so in my cmapagin, I incorperated a challenge where there was a monster who's shadow was his main method of attack. You could not, in fact, see the monster itself. So, I realize exp. is awarded for overcom,ing the challenge, but how would you do this, considering you can't kill the monster, nor kill a shadow? :confused: My PC Cleric suggested gettnig rid of the shadow with a pwoerful lgiht spell...
I'm confused as to what you mean. If you can see its shadow but not it, you get a 50% miss chance on attack rolls against it, and may have difficulty targeting it with spells that require line of sight, but you can definately attack the monster. If it's shadow can sperate from its body ala shadow conjuration, it should become a sperate creature with its own hit point total (and maybe some nonstandard results for killing it). Otherwise, how does one overcome such a creature?

And as a side note, a powerful light spell will not get rid of the shadow, it will make it bigger (assumeing the shadow is still attached to the creature). You would need a darkness spell so that the creature cast no shadow with wich to attack. (This last part is my opinion on the nature of shadows, light, and magic. If you view things differently then you can ignore me)
KarmaSlave
03-03-06, 02:21 PM This sounds like an old episode of the X-Files (Tony Shaloub played a man whose shadow killed people when they walked into it.)(or possibly from the Black Company series by Glen Cook)

In the story he stayed in areas of either little to no light so as not to cast a shadow or in a place so well lit that he cast no shadow.

So either way: Go with ACE and the darkness or trap the creature in a room with multiple continual light spells active.

In the X-files it couldn't be killed.....it's shadow, intangible and thus untouchable. With magic though, that might not be the case.

If you designed this creature, obviously you need to know how it can be killed. Maybe a special object that emits a unique type of light. "The Ghostlight is a lantern created by-insert NPC name- in days gone by to harm those vile beings who come from beyond the pale and seek to devour the good people of this world." (Vampires are not hurt buy candle light but sunlight hurts them, same theme here.)

hope that helps.
Rome_Leader
03-03-06, 04:33 PM To clarify a little bit more:

The thing is basically unfindable, so there is no way of killnig it, or forcing it away, thsu overcoming the challenge. But the shadow itself can kill, and my PCs want to know hwo t best it, because they don't want to run.

The Cleric suggested lighting the room to eliminate the shadow, but lacks the spell componantsto do so. Should this be a matetr fo lastig for X number of turns until teh monster reveals itself or what?
MinusInnocence
03-03-06, 04:50 PM How does the shadow kill people? Does it strike at them? If so, it's an incorporeal creature with a touch attack. If it just forces a weird save, maybe the shadow would best be treated as the effect from a Conjuration (Shadow) spell, as a previous poster suggested. [EDIT: I meant Illusion, not Conjuration.]

There are clear guidelines in the rules about this sort of the thing. If it's a monster, it has a HP total, AC, attack bonuses and other traits that define how it interacts with the people it targets or those who target it. If it's not a monster, it's probably either a spell (in which case you need to create the spell itself and determine how it is countered) or a hazard (kind of like a trap only you can't disarm it, it just continues dealing damage as long as you're exposed to it; think of lava or green slime or anything else of that nature).

Are you asking us about how to handle this because you honestly don't know? I guess the first thing you need to address is that it's a major error on your part to have introduced a challenge into the game without thinking beforehand about how the PCs should deal with it.

You could do the whole "if we can hold out for X rounds, the monster has to show itself!" thing. That's kind of weird though, you have to make sure the PCs understand this is the case. If they don't get it (or, at the very least, the players don't) then they won't be interested in letting it whale on them for that many rounds and the plan won't work.

I would suggest designing the monster, with his shadow being a part of the way it interacts with the world. Maybe it's not very impressive physically, but its shadow is a force to be reckoned with; and if the PCs have to "fight" the shadow, they can reduce it to zero HP which "kills" it (i.e., it can't manifest again for X amount of time; think of a vampire). While the monster waits for its shadow to manifest again, it's even more vulnerable than it was previously.

Of course, it would really help to throw them a bone here. If the shadow's been giving them a hard time, they'll want some payoff for finally "killing it." Maybe they can track it back to the location of the monster. Or have they already fought it and you told them outright they can't harm it?

What exactly did you have in mind when you made this thing up?
Rome_Leader
03-03-06, 08:21 PM Well, when I made this up, I thought it would be ionteresting to see how they would handle it. Now it just gves me a headache. It's not a monster in itself, it's a by-product of another monster, so that means the source has to die, right? I honestly don't know... BLAST! Ruined by my own creation... :P

I can't reveal the monster randomly, and have them kill it, because that wouldn't make any sense. I can't make it go away, because I specificly told them it was agressive. I think I will make it guardian of something, and when they retrive the thing, it will vanish, and tehy have overcome the challenge.
Mist of Shadows
03-03-06, 08:31 PM Salting the air glitter dust any number of things can effect the actual monster to make it hit able. As for the shadow and how you discribe it, I would allow a protection from evil ward it away. If it's an effect a dispell magic would probably deal with it. There are lots of ways to kill things with magic.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Rome_Leader 03-03-06, 01:55 PM	OK, so in my cmapagin, I incorperated a challenge where there was a monster who's shadow was his main method of attack. You could not, in fact, see the monster itself. So, I realize exp. is awarded for overcom,ing the challenge, but how would you do this, considering you can't kill the monster, nor kill a shadow? :confused: My PC Cleric suggested gettnig rid of the shadow with a pwoerful lgiht spell...
Ace the Dead 03-03-06, 02:04 PM	OK, so in my cmapagin, I incorperated a challenge where there was a monster who's shadow was his main method of attack. You could not, in fact, see the monster itself. So, I realize exp. is awarded for overcom,ing the challenge, but how would you do this, considering you can't kill the monster, nor kill a shadow? :confused: My PC Cleric suggested gettnig rid of the shadow with a pwoerful lgiht spell... I'm confused as to what you mean. If you can see its shadow but not it, you get a 50% miss chance on attack rolls against it, and may have difficulty targeting it with spells that require line of sight, but you can definately attack the monster. If it's shadow can sperate from its body ala shadow conjuration, it should become a sperate creature with its own hit point total (and maybe some nonstandard results for killing it). Otherwise, how does one overcome such a creature? And as a side note, a powerful light spell will not get rid of the shadow, it will make it bigger (assumeing the shadow is still attached to the creature). You would need a darkness spell so that the creature cast no shadow with wich to attack. (This last part is my opinion on the nature of shadows, light, and magic. If you view things differently then you can ignore me)
KarmaSlave 03-03-06, 02:21 PM	This sounds like an old episode of the X-Files (Tony Shaloub played a man whose shadow killed people when they walked into it.)(or possibly from the Black Company series by Glen Cook) In the story he stayed in areas of either little to no light so as not to cast a shadow or in a place so well lit that he cast no shadow. So either way: Go with ACE and the darkness or trap the creature in a room with multiple continual light spells active. In the X-files it couldn't be killed.....it's shadow, intangible and thus untouchable. With magic though, that might not be the case. If you designed this creature, obviously you need to know how it can be killed. Maybe a special object that emits a unique type of light. "The Ghostlight is a lantern created by-insert NPC name- in days gone by to harm those vile beings who come from beyond the pale and seek to devour the good people of this world." (Vampires are not hurt buy candle light but sunlight hurts them, same theme here.) hope that helps.
Rome_Leader 03-03-06, 04:33 PM	To clarify a little bit more: The thing is basically unfindable, so there is no way of killnig it, or forcing it away, thsu overcoming the challenge. But the shadow itself can kill, and my PCs want to know hwo t best it, because they don't want to run. The Cleric suggested lighting the room to eliminate the shadow, but lacks the spell componantsto do so. Should this be a matetr fo lastig for X number of turns until teh monster reveals itself or what?
MinusInnocence 03-03-06, 04:50 PM	How does the shadow kill people? Does it strike at them? If so, it's an incorporeal creature with a touch attack. If it just forces a weird save, maybe the shadow would best be treated as the effect from a Conjuration (Shadow) spell, as a previous poster suggested. [EDIT: I meant Illusion, not Conjuration.] There are clear guidelines in the rules about this sort of the thing. If it's a monster, it has a HP total, AC, attack bonuses and other traits that define how it interacts with the people it targets or those who target it. If it's not a monster, it's probably either a spell (in which case you need to create the spell itself and determine how it is countered) or a hazard (kind of like a trap only you can't disarm it, it just continues dealing damage as long as you're exposed to it; think of lava or green slime or anything else of that nature). Are you asking us about how to handle this because you honestly don't know? I guess the first thing you need to address is that it's a major error on your part to have introduced a challenge into the game without thinking beforehand about how the PCs should deal with it. You could do the whole "if we can hold out for X rounds, the monster has to show itself!" thing. That's kind of weird though, you have to make sure the PCs understand this is the case. If they don't get it (or, at the very least, the players don't) then they won't be interested in letting it whale on them for that many rounds and the plan won't work. I would suggest designing the monster, with his shadow being a part of the way it interacts with the world. Maybe it's not very impressive physically, but its shadow is a force to be reckoned with; and if the PCs have to "fight" the shadow, they can reduce it to zero HP which "kills" it (i.e., it can't manifest again for X amount of time; think of a vampire). While the monster waits for its shadow to manifest again, it's even more vulnerable than it was previously. Of course, it would really help to throw them a bone here. If the shadow's been giving them a hard time, they'll want some payoff for finally "killing it." Maybe they can track it back to the location of the monster. Or have they already fought it and you told them outright they can't harm it? What exactly did you have in mind when you made this thing up?
Rome_Leader 03-03-06, 08:21 PM	Well, when I made this up, I thought it would be ionteresting to see how they would handle it. Now it just gves me a headache. It's not a monster in itself, it's a by-product of another monster, so that means the source has to die, right? I honestly don't know... BLAST! Ruined by my own creation... :P I can't reveal the monster randomly, and have them kill it, because that wouldn't make any sense. I can't make it go away, because I specificly told them it was agressive. I think I will make it guardian of something, and when they retrive the thing, it will vanish, and tehy have overcome the challenge.
Mist of Shadows 03-03-06, 08:31 PM	Salting the air glitter dust any number of things can effect the actual monster to make it hit able. As for the shadow and how you discribe it, I would allow a protection from evil ward it away. If it's an effect a dispell magic would probably deal with it. There are lots of ways to kill things with magic.