A Society w/o Money but w/ Spell Storing [Archive] - Wizards Community

A Society w/o Money but w/ Spell Storing [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
henebry
07-13-06, 10:55 PM I'm preparing a faerieland-centered campaign and, in thinking about what isolates Faerieland from the rest of the world (including elves) it occurs to me that fey creatures traditionally treat gold as a silly thing: they temporarily transform dry leaves into false (fey) gold to fool unwary travelers; no doubt they also make the real gold carried by visitors appear to be nothing more than dry leaves.

So what if this culture (advanced in magical ability, but relatively uncivilized) remains uncivilized precisely because it lacks hard currency? A barter economy would mean that PCs would be limited to selling equipment (at 1/2 value) to obtain goods and services. So far so good.

But what if faeries also used magical I.O.U.s of some kind? I was thinking that perhaps they've a means of storing spell energy in small shells that they use for currency. These might function much in the manner of potions with two key differences: like potions they can store up to spell level 4, but unlike potions they don't store a specific spell AND unlike potions they expire after a month's time (or perhaps in just 7 days!).

It's important to me that they expire at the end of a lunar cycle because otherwise these spell shells would become like every other currency (gold, silver, dollar bills). The expiration date means that they're employed for small debts but are really just another aspect of the barter system, rather than a true faerie currency.

So my thought is that fey sorcerers can pour two spell uses (subtracted from their spells/day) into a shell to make a single-use spell shell of the same spell level. This might have to be done at dawn, so that there's a real sacrifice involved--crafting a spell shell means two fewer spells that day.

For game convenience, I'd set a gp value for these spell shells = 1/2 the cost to buy a potion of equivalent level. Because the spell shell can be used for any sorcerer spell of equivalent level and because of the high valuation of magic in fey culture, spell shells trade at this full value (not 1/2 cost as other items do). But they also lose their value over the course of a month (or week) which means there's no hoards of wealth in faerieland—though I imagine there might still be hoards of magic items and other durable goods.

Anyway, I guess I'm asking two questions here:

1) what are the ramifications of doing a barter economy in a campaign? Has anyone had experience with this? Are there pitfalls I should consider before going forward?

2) what are the ramifications of introducing a method by means of which sorcerers can store spells - and can trade stored spells with one another? By giving stored spells a fairly brief shelf life, I'm hoping to avoid the obvious danger. And I'm counting on the lack of social organization to prevent faeries from constructing a spell-shell sweatshop headed up by a BBEF (that's Big Bad Evil Fey, in case you were wondering). Finally, I could arbitrarily limit spell shells to use by fey sorcerers.
Dowjin
07-13-06, 11:26 PM 1 - Equivalent gold piece value. If you sell a 1000 gp sword (in example) for half its cost, 500 gp, and then proceeded to buy a 500 gp set of armor, thats no different than taking said sword directly to barter with the armorer. This is, of course, assuming that the people they trade to, are interested in the goods they have to barter.

I.E. Blacksmiths don't want chickens, and Farmers don't need a Great Sword.

If the economy is integreated, and everyone trades everything because its all got value, and said blacksmith will accept chickens because he'll just trade them over to breeders or Taverns, then its all good. Likewise if the Farmer will just turn around and proceed to trade the Great Sword for some horseshoes and ETC.

Just remember to balance everything at its like value. Consider the 1000 gp sword a compact way to carry 500 gp.

2 - I wouldn't reccomend having them expire, but its your campaign setting... Things that expire would cost relatively far less because they've got a limited time with which you can use them. Restricting the "shells" to Fae and Fae-like creatures will retain their value in Fae-land, while making it so the Party doesn't just stock up on quick-and-easy magic they can go rush to use. It also makes the "shell"s a bit rare outside of the fae realm, because unless one could keep it from expiring, its useless. Further, if one's not a Fae, tis useless. So they'd have to find the right buyers, elsewhere.

3 - Consistency. This is all rather complicated, so make it clear cut, give the players plenty of hints, and make sure they understand what the "shells" are, how they can and can't be used, and whether their a wise investment (perhaps roll wis so your not just /giving/ this info to them) towards the PCs plans. Because the second I hear about magical currency, I'm making bank and rushing back to my home town to get rich trading. It would really suck if I got halfway back before discovering they all "expired", and all/most of my gp/posessions were wasted. For balancing factor, I think its something you need to do, but make sure the PCs know how the "shells" are intended to be used.
evilgenius
07-13-06, 11:49 PM Read Aldous Huxley's Brave New World.

The currency they used was a drug called soma. Essentially, it was a society of drug addicts who were paid for their services (in accordance with their social station of course) by giving them a "fix".

It's obviously a lot more complicated than that, the book touches on whether it's better to live in a perception of happyness or with the awful truth, and whether we are beings of our own will...

But I digress.

It's a perfect example of a society with an expendible currency. It won't expire after a few days, but as a consumable item, it displays some of the properties you've thought of.

Soma / faerie dust anyone?
TarlSS
07-14-06, 10:18 AM Hard currency was really only prevelant in the Roman Empire and uh, past the late 1700's.

From around the fall of Rome - 1700's, most people lived via a barter economy because the were farmers. Only noble/merchants/craftsmen/city folk used currency. In the colonies, people rarely saw much of anything like gold. Many places in the world today use a barter economy such as areas in Tibet and the 3rd world.

A barter economy doesn't mean people are 'uncivilized'. it just means that transactions are more difficult. They won't have a thriving banking sector or economy, by all means.
henebry
07-14-06, 11:08 AM Hard currency was really only prevelant in the Roman Empire and uh, past the late 1700's.

From around the fall of Rome - 1700's, most people lived via a barter economy because the were farmers. Only noble/merchants/craftsmen/city folk used currency. In the colonies, people rarely saw much of anything like gold. Many places in the world today use a barter economy such as areas in Tibet and the 3rd world.

A barter economy doesn't mean people are 'uncivilized'. it just means that transactions are more difficult. They won't have a thriving banking sector or economy, by all means.

Absolutely. But while D&D settings generally have a Medieval "feel", the game also has a very modern money-centered economy. Even rare magic items now have a set price in gp. Plainly this is somewhat "unrealistic", but it also is plainly helpful in making the game playable, in focussing play on adventuring and exploring rather than on haggling over the price of provisions in the town market.

This led me to pose my question: how seriously will imposing a barter-only economy in an important corner of my campaign mess up game dynamics?

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
henebry 07-13-06, 10:55 PM	I'm preparing a faerieland-centered campaign and, in thinking about what isolates Faerieland from the rest of the world (including elves) it occurs to me that fey creatures traditionally treat gold as a silly thing: they temporarily transform dry leaves into false (fey) gold to fool unwary travelers; no doubt they also make the real gold carried by visitors appear to be nothing more than dry leaves. So what if this culture (advanced in magical ability, but relatively uncivilized) remains uncivilized precisely because it lacks hard currency? A barter economy would mean that PCs would be limited to selling equipment (at 1/2 value) to obtain goods and services. So far so good. But what if faeries also used magical I.O.U.s of some kind? I was thinking that perhaps they've a means of storing spell energy in small shells that they use for currency. These might function much in the manner of potions with two key differences: like potions they can store up to spell level 4, but unlike potions they don't store a specific spell AND unlike potions they expire after a month's time (or perhaps in just 7 days!). It's important to me that they expire at the end of a lunar cycle because otherwise these spell shells would become like every other currency (gold, silver, dollar bills). The expiration date means that they're employed for small debts but are really just another aspect of the barter system, rather than a true faerie currency. So my thought is that fey sorcerers can pour two spell uses (subtracted from their spells/day) into a shell to make a single-use spell shell of the same spell level. This might have to be done at dawn, so that there's a real sacrifice involved--crafting a spell shell means two fewer spells that day. For game convenience, I'd set a gp value for these spell shells = 1/2 the cost to buy a potion of equivalent level. Because the spell shell can be used for any sorcerer spell of equivalent level and because of the high valuation of magic in fey culture, spell shells trade at this full value (not 1/2 cost as other items do). But they also lose their value over the course of a month (or week) which means there's no hoards of wealth in faerieland—though I imagine there might still be hoards of magic items and other durable goods. Anyway, I guess I'm asking two questions here: 1) what are the ramifications of doing a barter economy in a campaign? Has anyone had experience with this? Are there pitfalls I should consider before going forward? 2) what are the ramifications of introducing a method by means of which sorcerers can store spells - and can trade stored spells with one another? By giving stored spells a fairly brief shelf life, I'm hoping to avoid the obvious danger. And I'm counting on the lack of social organization to prevent faeries from constructing a spell-shell sweatshop headed up by a BBEF (that's Big Bad Evil Fey, in case you were wondering). Finally, I could arbitrarily limit spell shells to use by fey sorcerers.
Dowjin 07-13-06, 11:26 PM	1 - Equivalent gold piece value. If you sell a 1000 gp sword (in example) for half its cost, 500 gp, and then proceeded to buy a 500 gp set of armor, thats no different than taking said sword directly to barter with the armorer. This is, of course, assuming that the people they trade to, are interested in the goods they have to barter. I.E. Blacksmiths don't want chickens, and Farmers don't need a Great Sword. If the economy is integreated, and everyone trades everything because its all got value, and said blacksmith will accept chickens because he'll just trade them over to breeders or Taverns, then its all good. Likewise if the Farmer will just turn around and proceed to trade the Great Sword for some horseshoes and ETC. Just remember to balance everything at its like value. Consider the 1000 gp sword a compact way to carry 500 gp. 2 - I wouldn't reccomend having them expire, but its your campaign setting... Things that expire would cost relatively far less because they've got a limited time with which you can use them. Restricting the "shells" to Fae and Fae-like creatures will retain their value in Fae-land, while making it so the Party doesn't just stock up on quick-and-easy magic they can go rush to use. It also makes the "shell"s a bit rare outside of the fae realm, because unless one could keep it from expiring, its useless. Further, if one's not a Fae, tis useless. So they'd have to find the right buyers, elsewhere. 3 - Consistency. This is all rather complicated, so make it clear cut, give the players plenty of hints, and make sure they understand what the "shells" are, how they can and can't be used, and whether their a wise investment (perhaps roll wis so your not just /giving/ this info to them) towards the PCs plans. Because the second I hear about magical currency, I'm making bank and rushing back to my home town to get rich trading. It would really suck if I got halfway back before discovering they all "expired", and all/most of my gp/posessions were wasted. For balancing factor, I think its something you need to do, but make sure the PCs know how the "shells" are intended to be used.
evilgenius 07-13-06, 11:49 PM	Read Aldous Huxley's Brave New World. The currency they used was a drug called soma. Essentially, it was a society of drug addicts who were paid for their services (in accordance with their social station of course) by giving them a "fix". It's obviously a lot more complicated than that, the book touches on whether it's better to live in a perception of happyness or with the awful truth, and whether we are beings of our own will... But I digress. It's a perfect example of a society with an expendible currency. It won't expire after a few days, but as a consumable item, it displays some of the properties you've thought of. Soma / faerie dust anyone?
TarlSS 07-14-06, 10:18 AM	Hard currency was really only prevelant in the Roman Empire and uh, past the late 1700's. From around the fall of Rome - 1700's, most people lived via a barter economy because the were farmers. Only noble/merchants/craftsmen/city folk used currency. In the colonies, people rarely saw much of anything like gold. Many places in the world today use a barter economy such as areas in Tibet and the 3rd world. A barter economy doesn't mean people are 'uncivilized'. it just means that transactions are more difficult. They won't have a thriving banking sector or economy, by all means.
henebry 07-14-06, 11:08 AM	Hard currency was really only prevelant in the Roman Empire and uh, past the late 1700's. From around the fall of Rome - 1700's, most people lived via a barter economy because the were farmers. Only noble/merchants/craftsmen/city folk used currency. In the colonies, people rarely saw much of anything like gold. Many places in the world today use a barter economy such as areas in Tibet and the 3rd world. A barter economy doesn't mean people are 'uncivilized'. it just means that transactions are more difficult. They won't have a thriving banking sector or economy, by all means. Absolutely. But while D&D settings generally have a Medieval "feel", the game also has a very modern money-centered economy. Even rare magic items now have a set price in gp. Plainly this is somewhat "unrealistic", but it also is plainly helpful in making the game playable, in focussing play on adventuring and exploring rather than on haggling over the price of provisions in the town market. This led me to pose my question: how seriously will imposing a barter-only economy in an important corner of my campaign mess up game dynamics?