Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Raven Dark 07-10-06, 01:21 AM	Dear Board Members, While hosting an adventure last night for my friends, they encountered a wise sage of great power who promised them each a Wish if they accomplished a quest on his behalf. Well they did, and upon their return they started making their wishes. The rogue wished for lots of loot. The wizard wished for the equivalent of 25,000gp of new spells to add to his spellbook. The fighter wished to be stronger. The cleric wished to exchange an old feat for a better feat (which I allowed since the player was unhappy with his previous choices). The problem was the group's bard... ...he simply wished to be granted his wish at a later time of his choosing. He hopes to save it for a time that might be absolutley crucial to the group's success and/or survival. I like his wish and think it to be very clever, but I don't know how to run it. I mean, didn't he just expend his wish to get another one? How should that work? I know most most DM's don't allow people to wish for more wishes, but is this really the same thing? How would you run it? --A confounded DM.
KirkBb 07-10-06, 01:25 AM	Bravo on the bards part, I would allow it, maybe have the wizard cast of the telepathic bond spells, so the sage can just be contacted at a later time. (of course the permanency spell would have to be involved here, too.)
FeceMan 07-10-06, 01:26 AM	I'd just let him have it. Don't worry about the mechanics behind it; just have the sage smile knowingly and nod, perhaps giving the bard a magical device with which he can contact the sage when his wish needs to be granted.
Shaggy_Shaggs 07-10-06, 01:26 AM	Alternately the bard could be given a Ring of Wishing with 1 charge left.
malignor 07-10-06, 01:33 AM	Alternately the bard could be given a Ring of Wishing with 1 charge left.Or a scroll of Wish. Just hope the Bard makes his UMD roll...
stargate525 07-10-06, 02:00 AM	I'd just let him have it. Don't worry about the mechanics behind it; just have the sage smile knowingly and nod, perhaps giving the bard a magical device with which he can contact the sage when his wish needs to be granted. Alternately the bard could be given a Ring of Wishing with 1 charge left. Of these two, I like the asthetics of the former alot more. I mean which would you rather have, a cool trinket that lets you call up a sage, or a used wonderous item? Kudos to the Bard. A very creative and useful application of it. I would allow it wholeheartedly, and encourage the others to take notes.
Dowjin 07-10-06, 02:44 AM	Wishing for more wishes isn't the same as /saving/ your wish for later. I agree with everyone that he should keep it, and think that /contacting/ the sage personally to have the wish cast later means a lot more than "here have this ring". However given permanency on Rary's Telepathic bond, or whatever cost the sage needs to pay to grant the bard his wish for later use might weigh on his mind. Given that wishing away the BBEG, or similar ultimate effects, able to happen /as the Bard pleases/, it can be downgraded to a Limited Wish in lieu of xp, meterial, or simply /time/ and effort on the Sage's part. If you think thats cheating the bard a bit, make it Wish, but the Sage advises (in rp-speak) that only 8th level or lower spells (or the equivalent effect in wishing) can be used... If your confident that a useable any time later Wish won't hurt the game too much, go for it. But any way you rule it, the bard should be allowed to keep it.
Milo HoBo 07-10-06, 03:18 AM	When the bard is done adventuring for good, the sage offers him a place as an apprentice sage for having shown his wisdom.
Darkxarth 07-10-06, 04:04 AM	I think this was wonderful role-playing on the part of the Bard. And, I too like the idea of contacting the sage (possibly through a magical crystal?) instead of just recieving a Scroll of Wish or a Ring of Three Wishes with one left. Kudos to your Bard, though, of course, the other characters' Wishes were good as well, they were exactly what a Rogue, Fighter, and Wizard would Wish for. And presumably what a Cleric with a bad feat might Wish for. Finally, kudos to you for not immediately shooting this idea down. Many lesser DMs might have.
Just another user 07-10-06, 04:27 AM	Of these two, I like the asthetics of the former alot more. I mean which would you rather have, a cool trinket that lets you call up a sage, or a used wonderous item? Of course you understand that in the end is exactly the same item but with a different description. :) But yeah, that's what I'd do, too give him one use magic item with a wish inside (or maybe a limited wish to pay for the increased flexibility) not necessarily a scroll, it could be a ring or a magic lamp, with the clause that only he can use it.
tsuyoshikentsu 07-10-06, 04:33 AM	By my math, a single-use wish item that works for only a Bard is well within wish limits, so go for it.
Shaggy_Shaggs 07-10-06, 05:02 AM	But yeah, that's what I'd do, too give him one use magic item with a wish inside (or maybe a limited wish to pay for the increased flexibility) not necessarily a scroll, it could be a ring or a magic lamp, with the clause that only he can use it. This is what I meant to imply (and failed) with my ring suggestion. A ring of wishing with 1 charge left is boring and anticlimactic, but mechanically it'll do what you want - 1 wish, retrievable whenever, completely portable. Once you've got the crunch issue taken care of, you're free to deal with the flavour however you want. I personally would favor an indellible-until-used mark of the benefactor's personal rune, and instructions to touch the mark and call for help when he's ready to call his wish in.
Aldarionn 07-10-06, 05:04 AM	I'm in agreement with the others. This was truely a wise use of a very powerful gift. I'd have the sage tell him that when he wants his wish granted, he need only say the sages name, and have him appear on cue to deliver the wish. It's simple use of Discern Location and Teleport, with a slight twist about the "say my name to contact me" part that makes it more flavorful and fun for the party. I'd give the Bard a pat on the back and be a bit more lenient later on down the line about what I grant for the wish, seeing as he is giving his wish up not for personal gain, but to help the entire party. Hell I might even award a small ammount of bonus xp for creativity.
Kraleck 07-10-06, 07:46 AM	If the situation coming up involves using the wish to severely cripple enemy forces, or possible wish abuse, make it so he only has to say "I wish..." and whatever he says happens. If your spellcaster won't shut up and bard-boy says "I wish you would shut up," then that is his wish, or if he says "I wish I hadn't said that," the PCs could end up in hot water if what he said made the situation better and the bard has used his wish. Play around with it if he has potential for wish abuse. On the flipside of the gp, he has already made a wish for his wish to be granted at a later time. He made a wish for a wish, so give him a Limited Wish as his wish.
Nani? 07-10-06, 08:08 AM	Sounds like some people here are way too hung up on the mechanics. Get over it and grant his wish latter, and sure as heck don't penalize him or pullout out crap like limited wish etc (unless he is a munchkin, which he doesn't sound like). Don't worry about an item or things like that. In other words, play it straight. All the best, Nani?
kelvinaw273 07-10-06, 08:11 AM	Myself, I would make it a Limited Wish usable at any time - still enough to save everyone's bacon, not so powerful as to be unstopable. make him aware of this so he doesn't waste the limited wish: If up against a BBEG you can't hurt, he could wish for a weapon that would hurt the BBEG, but not to kill them.
runestar 07-10-06, 08:18 AM	I would grant him the ability to use wish as a SLA once. :)
Renvale999 07-10-06, 08:39 AM	Be careful, he could use the wish to destroy a BBEG later on in the game, I had a wish once and I used it to destroy the main bad wizard villian that the DM was very, very proud of. We went on a similar quest, got a wish to be used at anytime (DM figured we would save them to be resurrected or something). I simply didn't have a use for mine until we fought the main bad guy. I simply wished that the wizard, at that moment, would un-memorize his spells without having a chance to cast them....needless to say it was a short battle. DM allowed it since there were such things as spell-thieves and other abilities/creatures that can take/un-memorize spells in the D&D universe. Just be careful and prepare for him to use it later when you least expect it.
Lokathor 07-10-06, 09:00 AM	To the people who are worried he'll just "wish a guy dead", would you allow a wizard casting wish to just wish a BBEG dead? no? well then why are you worrying about the bard doing it? yes? well then why isn't every BBEG just wish'd dead in the first place, before the PCs even have to step in and handle it? The bard is aware that he doesn't get what he asks for if he asks for too much, and if he tries anyway then and only then should you say "no dice" and throw him in a pot of hot water. Before that, just chill and let him keep his wish in reserve like most people are saying.
Aufenshauft 07-10-06, 09:09 AM	Unless you give him a magical item (which looses a little 'specialness'), or give him a way to contact this guy at any time (which is loosable or dispellable), there is no really good mechanical way to solve this one. There is a strong danger with such a smart player having a Wish on tap. I wouldn't put it past some of my better players to ruin an entire campaign with their wisdom. So.... Wish with limits. Perhaps the caster looks perplexed as to how to word his wish spell himself and takes him into his parlor over wine to discuss what he really had in mind. Some possibilities for the actual effects of the spell. Get out of Trouble Free... once: The Bard is given a phrase that effectively triggers the wish effect in the most simple but effective manner. Since the Wish spell isn't technically anywhere, it is no longer dispellable. This allows you, the DM, to remove a threat in a manner that doesn't ruin the game. An example of this would be in TLoTR movie where Arowyn (sp?) summons the river spirits to wash away the ring wraiths. A PC in that situation would use the wish to destroy them outright and removing a DM's favorite enemy from the field. Another is removing the BBeG's +15 sword of annihilation for one minute just as he is about to be killed and forcing him to draw and fight with just his backup +5 sword. Lastly, if the players are in deep to the point of just being stupid, you can remove them from the situation altogether with a generic "You don't know how, but you 'aint there now". Power spell on Tap: You are allowed through a special rhyme to summon a magical effect in the future. This spell has all the limitations of a limited wish but is chosen by the player. Gives more flexibility, but is a little weaker than the wish technically. Others have had this opinion. One die roll is guaranteed... Once: Sort of like the get out of trouble, but defensive or offensive. Careful that this one can guarantee a failed save by the BBeG for that death spell cast by your party mage. However, this could also be used by the Bard for that once-in-a-lifetime speech that causes the army to rally, or get his way in to see the king. Really, it depends on the player. How much do you trust him, and will he try and make a better game with the power, or will he find a way to squeeze every last drop of power out of the easter egg you gave him?
Bulletproof_Condom 07-10-06, 09:16 AM	Give him wish as a spell-like ability, useable once.
BloodDragon 07-10-06, 09:37 AM	The problem was the group's bard... ...he simply wished to be granted his wish at a later time of his choosing. He hopes to save it for a time that might be absolutley crucial to the group's success and/or survival. Bravo! I applauded your bard! Don’t worry about game mechanics. Like previously stated just have the bard repeat the sages name to have his wished granted at any time or something to that affect. Be careful, he could use the wish to destroy a BBEG later on in the game. ... Just be careful and prepare for him to use it later when you least expect it. If you may be worried that he wish the BBEG away instead of having the BBEG simply disappear have a powerful magic item appear in the Bards hands, nothing says ‘Epic’ more then a major artifact appearing and having your PCs going toe to toe with the Final Villian. Then once the Villian is vanquished the weapon disappears because the wish is complete.
risner 07-10-06, 04:32 PM	I would grant him the ability to use wish as a SLA once. :) /agree
FeceMan 07-10-06, 04:53 PM	I am dumbfounded by the retardedness of this thread. OMG HE COULD WISH THE BBEG WAS GONE Nuurh, a level 17 wizard could wish that there was world peace. Doesn't mean it's going to happen (at least, not how he wants it). Cripes. Get the rulebooks out of your asses, think a little, and don't try and screw the bard over for what is a very good choice.
Zheon 07-10-06, 05:06 PM	:confused: why not scrap mechanics for this one? mechanics screw flavor over, majorly. spell like abilities might get rid of the.. feel of the wish. instead of having him will a wish into existance once, have him say something along the lines of "(insert sages name), i wish myself and my party were protected from harm for 24 hours!" .. etc. this will provide a very nice climax, as well as interesting possibilities for you. chances are, if he's saving the party's skin, he wont spend an hour wording the wish. have them be teleported away, randomly. maybe they appear in some old hermits house, and break a magical item he was working on. now they need to repay him, and go find a unique ingredient.. good hook, right there. maybe the BBEG wants the ingredient/artifact as well. good twist, right there. starting to get the point? just.. scrap the mechanics. it'll flow better, and it'll have better flavor.
Vanguard 07-10-06, 05:34 PM	I had a sitiuation just like this in my game. First I say this, If your going to make your players go on a quest to EARN the wish...dont screw him over when he uses it. Why give him something only to mess with him. Secound...screw the mechanics of it. Have fun, make it something awsome that the players will talk about for days to come. When my players used there wish they were being overrun by an attacking army of undead and couldn't hold...so the Fighter of the group wished that the party was somewhere safe. Next thing they know...There in a nice clearing in the forest with a lovely spring in the center to provide cold water that healed any poisons or stat drans or something like that....And fruit that healed HP. And there were unicorns. The felt a sense of peace over take them as the slept silently and without the bad dreams there last battle surely would have left them with. And they slept peacefuly knowing that they were being watched over by the Unicorns of the Grove. And the fighter, she got to cuddle with one to keep warm. Does it make sense in the game Mechanics...prolly if i looked hard and long enough...but i didnt care. They worked hard for that wish and when they used it, It was for the good of the party. And they talked about there stay with the Unicorns for a good week or two while at work. So spice it up a bit and reward your players....they'll love you for it. Trust me.
pangalactic 07-10-06, 06:20 PM	He's not really Wishing for more Wishes though, is he? In effect he's just asked the sage if he can make a decision later; the words "I wish..." need never have been uttered. So I say allow it.
Ogmug 07-10-06, 06:48 PM	Just have him return in <insert craft time here, Then have the sage craft the single wish ring. It isn't so climatic as just handing it to him. On a related note, (this did not happen to me), would you allow a wish to create a ring of three wishes? after all the rules state 25,000 gp limit on mundane things, but doesn't state anything for magical (at least that was the arguement given).
Tormsskull 07-10-06, 07:27 PM	I would grant him the ability to use wish as a SLA once. :) I 2nd this, and I'd even go a step farther and award the Bard a little bit of bonus exp for (presumably) unselfishly retaining his wish to help the party at a later time.
Dowjin 07-10-06, 08:32 PM	The danger lies in how subtle or wise the bard is. Its not "I wish the BBEG was dead!" if he says that, I'd have the wish spell replicate "Finger of Death" complete with save, which in no way ENSURES that the BBEG dies, but drives towards that end under the maximum ability and power of the wish. It should directly and to the best of its ability, follow his command in effect. Screwing him over by saying "bad wording, a thousand bunnies balefully teleport into your stomach" should /only/ be reserved if he wishes for something that would break reality on an obscenely stupid scale, or if the phrase just /begs/ for it. Such as "I wish for a million bucks!" :nonono: "I wish the BBEG was gone!" Teleport. Plane Shift. Baleful Teleport at best. "I wish the BBEG would turn inside out!" Harm. ... The danger lies in "I wish the <plot device the BBEG is relying upon> doesn't exist anymore" Moderating the wish isn't gypping him, if the Sage has to put in extra effort to make this happen, appropriately, it can be a Limited Wish, or a full Wish one spell level down. Even if you allow a fully powered Wish without restriction, remember that it can replicate only up to 9th level spells. Similarly only allow extreme effects that would be allowed as 9th level spells. Take a look at the Epic Handbook. Any damage dice or effect listed in there he wants to wish for, is unattainable. This isn't to gyp him, this is to give him the full range of exactly what he wants, without "Yeah, it happens, you win DnD." And have the Sage explain to the Bard beforehand, so he /doesn't/ feel gypped, exactly what limits are on even a Wish.
Xzamuel 07-10-06, 09:23 PM	The wording of the Bard's wish... doesn't that take it out of the Sage's hands? seeing as the sage presumably fulfills his wish in granting him his next wish... won't the next wish just come from some sort of cosmic force or whatever? Just a thought, though personally if it were me I'd have the sage give the bard a mundane looking coin or something which the bard had to spin while he made his wish, or something... I'd also have some thief pickpocket said coin in the next tavern, and have the PCs track the coin down through a chain of fences, merchants, bankers, noblemen, etc as an interesting diversion :D
SOPI 07-10-06, 10:36 PM	I would grant it. Don't worry about rules, just have the sage give him the wish. No magic device, no thought bond. Just make it as if the bard can cast wish at any time ONCE and only ONCE. That is basically what he is saying he wants.
Xykon 07-11-06, 12:45 AM	I wouldn't allow it. I would allow him (the bard) to come back on a later date to get his "wish" if i have good reason to, but as a wise sage, i believe he would not want to be summoned any time in the future to grant a PC's wish and then teleport back. Think of it, In the future the sage may be in the middle to doing some delicate magic (no, not those 1 standard action ones), i don't think he would like it to be summoned at that time. Or just anything that cannot be disturbed i.e. in the middle of negotiating with an djinn in exchange for something. But again this is just me. I think the wise sage does something from time to time other than meditating in his sanctum and when he is doing whatever he does, maybe he doesn't want to be disturbed... Just my 2 cp
Trobon the Orange 07-11-06, 01:11 AM	Let the bard have it. It was a move that seems selfless (as he will be using the wish for the entire party rather than himself) and was good thinking. Remember Rule 0 is there to help the game along not to punish players.
JayDubya 07-11-06, 01:16 AM	Have him be able to cast wish at a time of his choosing. A wish can produce any one of the following effects. * Duplicate any wizard or sorcerer spell of 8th level or lower, provided the spell is not of a school prohibited to you. * Duplicate any other spell of 6th level or lower, provided the spell is not of a school prohibited to you. * Duplicate any wizard or sorcerer spell of 7th level or lower even if it’s of a prohibited school. * Duplicate any other spell of 5th level or lower even if it’s of a prohibited school. * Undo the harmful effects of many other spells, such as geas/quest or insanity. * Create a nonmagical item of up to 25,000 gp in value. * Create a magic item, or add to the powers of an existing magic item. * Grant a creature a +1 inherent bonus to an ability score. Two to five wish spells cast in immediate succession can grant a creature a +2 to +5 inherent bonus to an ability score (two wishes for a +2 inherent bonus, three for a +3 inherent bonus, and so on). Inherent bonuses are instantaneous, so they cannot be dispelled. Note: An inherent bonus may not exceed +5 for a single ability score, and inherent bonuses to a particular ability score do not stack, so only the best one applies. * Remove injuries and afflictions. A single wish can aid one creature per caster level, and all subjects are cured of the same kind of affliction. For example, you could heal all the damage you and your companions have taken, or remove all poison effects from everyone in the party, but not do both with the same wish. A wish can never restore the experience point loss from casting a spell or the level or Constitution loss from being raised from the dead. * Revive the dead. A wish can bring a dead creature back to life by duplicating a resurrection spell. A wish can revive a dead creature whose body has been destroyed, but the task takes two wishes, one to recreate the body and another to infuse the body with life again. A wish cannot prevent a character who was brought back to life from losing an experience level. * Transport travelers. A wish can lift one creature per caster level from anywhere on any plane and place those creatures anywhere else on any plane regardless of local conditions. An unwilling target gets a Will save to negate the effect, and spell resistance (if any) applies. * Undo misfortune. A wish can undo a single recent event. The wish forces a reroll of any roll made within the last round (including your last turn). Reality reshapes itself to accommodate the new result. For example, a wish could undo an opponent’s successful save, a foe’s successful critical hit (either the attack roll or the critical roll), a friend’s failed save, and so on. The reroll, however, may be as bad as or worse than the original roll. An unwilling target gets a Will save to negate the effect, and spell resistance (if any) applies. You may try to use a wish to produce greater effects than these, but doing so is dangerous. (The wish may pervert your intent into a literal but undesirable fulfillment or only a partial fulfillment.) You can't just wish a bad guy dead. It doesn't work like that. If you tried, I'd imagine it would backfire in a terrible way. If it DID work like that, spellcasters would destroy the universe. Which reminds me... "I wish that this wish will not be granted."
DarkKestral 07-11-06, 01:25 AM	Actually, fundamentally, there is precedent for "wish-ing an opponent dead" in the form of the Tarrasque, which requires a wish to successfully kill.
Trobon the Orange 07-11-06, 01:32 AM	Doesn't the tarrasque just require a wish in order so that it can be killed. ie. The wish spell doesn't kill it, but you can't kill it until you wish that it can be killed. EDIT: Looked it up and I was more or less right. The tarrasque can be slain only by raising its nonlethal damage total to its full normal hit points +10 (or 868 hit points) and using a wish or miracle spell to keep it dead.
Whisper_Swiftblade 07-11-06, 02:08 AM	as long as the sage is not hurt or needs saveing (Idea for a side quest *hint hint*) the bard made a verry good chois, also I don't think what he did was wishing for an extra wish because at the end of the day he still has only had one wish.
Demon Lightfoot 07-11-06, 02:21 AM	I have this image of the Bard contacting the Sage to get his wish granted and interrupting him while bathing, napping, eating, making out with his girlfriend, getting progressively angrier...
Raven Dark 07-11-06, 02:36 AM	Alright, here is how it went down earlier tonight. We started the game by completing the final wish and then moving on to the new story arc which introduced the BBEG (in a combat role) for the first time. SAGE: I shall grant you your request just as I promised I would. At any time hereafter, all you need do is utter the words "I wish..." followed by your stated desire. It shall then be fullfilled. BARD: Wha--really!? *Begins singing happily* FIGHTER: What a stupid wish. Why couldn't you have asked for something cool, like a magical lute that blasts things when you play it? BARD: *Stops singing* What use is a magical lute if it blows up your paying audiance? FIGHTER: *Shakes head in disagreement.* Outside of the game I explained to the player that it would be treated as a one time use spell-like ability. Later on in the game when the party encountered the BBEG (a ruthlessly min/maxed cleric) and his henchmen the battle got off to a really bad start. The party mopped up the minions easily enough, but they protected the BBEG long enough for him to get off a laundry list of buffs (in addition to the dozen or so he already had). After mopping up the last of the minions the fighter charged the BBEG fruitlessly only to have the magical wards deflect his attack completely. The cleric followed up with a melee attack that nearly killed the party fighter outright--leaving him unconscious on the floor at his feet. Next was the wizard's turn. He could see all the BBEG's buffs thanks to his arcane sight spell. He tried casting greater dispel magic only to fail on a roll of 19 (the BBEG had already taken steps to defend against dispel magic and greater dispel magic). At that point I informed the party that the BBEG was raising his sword over the helpless fighter in preperation for a coup de grace when his initiative count came up again. Next was the bard's turn. Care to guess what he did? I wish... *dramatic pause by the player* ...that the great sage, Cadeus Harkon, was here to help us now in our time of dire need! BWAM! The great sage magically explodes into being behind the BBEG (who screams in surprise) and proceeds to blast him in the back with a powerful blast of magical energy (Mordenkainen's disjunction) before shouting "The bargain is fullfilled!" and dissapearing again in a blast of lightning (teleport). The group's cleric then cast a potent homebrew paralyzing spell which allowed the rogue to rush in and deliver a vicious critical hit with lots of extra sneak attack damage. When the BBEG's turn came around again, he made his save against the paralysis and broke free, but was so badly wounded by the rogue at that point that he ignored the helpless fighter and fled back to his lair via magical aid to lick his wounds. The cleric then healed the fighter and explained to him all that had transpired. FIGHTER: *Walks over to the grinning bard with the intention of thanking him* BARD: Still think we needed a lute of audiance detonation? FIGHTER: *Barely controlling his tempor* No...I...suppose...not. All in all a great introduction of the BBEG. With his immunity to nearly every attack form the party possessed and his ability to drop the fighter in one hit really put the fear into the players. Even so, the bard's clever planning allowed the party to prevail against the impossible odds. Now the campaign is really going to get going now. The player characters were once interlopers without names, but have now become the target of the BBEG's all encomposing hatred and lust for revenge). In the next game, I intend for the party to find the sage's body--ruthlessly murdered by the BBEG. A magical messege left by the sage in his last moments of life will replay the battle for the party to see as well as provide clues that will hint that, thanks to the damage done by the party in the initial conflict and the battle shortly thereafter shown in the recording, the BBEG has lost much of his power and that the time to strike is now. Thank you all so very much for your help. It has made for some wonderful gaming. EDIT: Our group now uses the term L.O.A.D. (Lute of Audiance Detonation) when referencing bad or wrong decisions. ROGUE: *To the fighter who wants to charge down the dungeon hall at the bad guys* Want a L.O.A.D.? Then go on ahead down that hall and step on the pressure plate trap!
DecepticonHQ 07-11-06, 03:42 AM	Very, very nicely handled. I'm saddened that you're going to kill the sage off, but I suppose it prevents the party from using him as a Wish fountain. "Hey, we need more firepower! Let's go see if Ol' Sagey needs a favor..." But aside from the sad demise of the sage, I love how that turned out. Very cool.
Zyphus 07-11-06, 11:50 AM	Personally, I would say the wish was used, and once in his life he can do some gesture or say something and save everyone/undo one recent effect. My sister allowed us to save wishes. This was well and good until the evil fighter among us grabbed the Drow female and during his Intimidation of her said "I wish you were pretty". Boom, wish granted! Either works, decide which your players will abuse less.
Sulaco 07-11-06, 11:57 AM	Everyone else got table-service, the bard got take-out. No biggie. Screw the mechanics.
Andorxor 07-11-06, 12:12 PM	I don't fell sorry for the sage,he deserves to die for the stupid action of annoying a atleast as powerfull as him enemy and than not finishing him.
starfire311 07-11-06, 12:23 PM	I don't fell sorry for the sage,he deserves to die for the stupid action of annoying a atleast as powerfull as him enemy and than not finishing him. Yeah, I hope the bard is happy, he got the sage killed.
BrokenClock 07-11-06, 12:24 PM	Wouldn't wishing un-balance anyones game? I wouldn't want my PCs walking around with millions of gp in their pocket or with plus *some crazy number* to strength bracers.
Sulaco 07-11-06, 01:47 PM	Wouldn't wishing un-balance anyones game? I wouldn't want my PCs walking around with millions of gp in their pocket or with plus *some crazy number* to strength bracers. Which is why the Wish spell has limitations well-defined in the PHB. Any DM who does not read and understand those limitations has only themself to blame for any unbalance caused.
Nani? 07-11-06, 02:30 PM	Cripes. Get the rulebooks out of your asses, think a little, and don't try and screw the bard over for what is a very good choice. :cheer: :w00t: :w00t: :cheer: :clap: :clap: :clap: :cheer: :w00t: :w00t: :cheer: I think I want to add this to my signature. All the Best, Nani?
Sulaco 07-11-06, 03:53 PM	Get the rulebooks out of your asses... ...put them on the table, and read them. The limitations of the Wish spell are detailed in the core rulebooks. A Bard with a Wish can no more wish someone dead that can a Mage of high enough level to cast the spell himself.
Sulaco 07-11-06, 04:02 PM	I don't fell sorry for the sage,he deserves to die for the stupid action of annoying a atleast as powerfull as him enemy and than not finishing him. I don't feel sorry for the Sage cos he is an NPC and of not value or purpose beyond his limited use a s aplot device. Like all NPCs, even the most artfully portrayed and fully rounded of them, he is a tool to be used by the DM to enhance the game and advance the story. If this can be best accomplished by killing said NPC then he dies. Period.
Sulaco 07-11-06, 04:03 PM	I don't fell sorry for the sage,he deserves to die for the stupid action of annoying a atleast as powerfull as him enemy and than not finishing him. I don't feel sorry for the Sage cos he is an NPC and of not value or purpose beyond his limited use a s aplot device. Like all NPCs, even the most artfully portrayed and fully rounded of them, he is a tool to be used by the DM to enhance the game and advance the story. If this can be best accomplished by killing said NPC then he dies. Period. If you have done your job well then the PCs (and players) will feel sorry for him and seek to bring his killer to justice.