Post/Author/DateTime	Post
ShadowDragon8685 12-21-04, 04:33 PM	Okay, bear with me here, this is a strange, half-baked idea I formed while walking through a veteran's cemetary to place a wreath on the grave of one of my uncles. Oh, and if anyone has any stupid and sarcastic things to say about it, kindly keep it to yourself. The idea I had was, what if a crazy necromancer was plane-hopping and wound up in modern-day America, in some semirural area, and started raising the dead. This would naturally entail the kind of chaos that a night of the living dead scenario would bring, what with police emptying clip after clip into the dead and failing to stop them. (At least until the shotguns and chainsaws get hauled out, hehe.) Enter: Player X. Player X is playing as a small-to-medium town kid who's never been terribly popular and is kind of a geek and a nerd (And has no knowledge of D&D, except for one tidbit: You burn trolls or soak them in acid to stop them, heheh,) and is pretty much... Well, like any of us who're in the 15-22 bracket really. And our current player finds himself in the middle of this, witnessing one of the rising of the deads in the local cemetary, and is forced to run. It's up to the DM to engineer the machinations that get our teenager here to the veteran's cemetary (this should be no more than one or two solo sessions,) where the necromancer is again attempting to raise the dead. This time however, our lone protagonist is ready for him. There's always been a feeling of calm and order in this cemetary, as if it were watched over by something - and it is. When the necromancer raises dead, he dosen't raise thralls, he arouses the vengeful war dead, angry at the death this outsider has sown, and angry at disturbing their slumber. And all of them armed as they were during the wars they fought in - Springfields, Garands, Thompsons, M14s and M16s, the works. The necromancer thinks that the kid is responsible, somehow some kind of cleric of the new age or something, and vows a curse that if he's going down, he's taking the kid with him. One short, bloody burst of gunfire later, it's over. Necromancer dead in a pool of blood - and the kid is trapped in a whirling vortex. The necromancer was right, but one thing steps in to save our hero - the spirit of his or her grandfather, who fought in WWII. Thrusting a rifle (Springfield Sniper, Garand M1, Thompson Subgun or Browning Automatic Rifle, player's choice) into the kid's hand, the grandfather says that he can offer little more aid, but will do what can be done to aid our new protagonist on this adventure. This is where our kid joins the regular D&D party, who's been chasing (surprise surprise,) a necromancer responsible for much death and destruction. The party should be in their mid-early levels, like 4-7, and the kid about three levels behind their average, having gained an instant two levels of soldier. (Pretty much meaning that he's got Fighter BAB and HP, no Fighter feats, skills mostly including running, jumping, swimming and climbing, but gains 4 skill points per level, has bonus class skills (from civilian life) equal to inteligence modifier, and gains automatic 'fighter' style ranged feats for use with the small arms of choice - which include both the rifle and an M-1911 pistol. Now, you may ask, where does our person get his ammo? Well, it's simple. He starts play with three clips for his primary rifle (15 rounds of .30-06 caliber for use in the Sprinfield Sniper, 24 rounds of .30-06 in three stripper clips for the M1 Garand, or 90 rounds of .45 caliber for use with the Thompson. In addition (If the player chose a long arm, and not the Tommy gun,) the player gets an M1911 pistol with 42 rounds in 6 clips, (The reason is that, using the same ammunition, there is no reason the player could not simply remove the .45 ACP from the pistol's clips and use them in his Thompson... Besides, having two weapns which have the same specification for CQB is stupid.) How does the player gain more ammunition, you ask? That's the trick, and therein the balance for the game. Every morning, the player wakes up with a new full clip for the pistol (unless he was carrying his maximum of six,) or gains 7 rounds in a clip for the tommy gun, if he didn't have a rifle, again, not to exceed his original maximum in this manner. At every levelup, the player gains the original number of rounds he started play with, in addition to whatever he had on him - this includes pistol and rifle rounds. However, he still cannot afford to use his strange and alien powers in every situation. This leads to him possibly being in a pickle - open fire, or go to melee. As far as melee, the player is not totally screwed - Both Garand and Springfield have bayonets and can strike with the butt, while the tommy gun can still strike with the butt. These are considered to be short spear and club attacks respectively, excepting that both are being used two-handed, so as to gain 1.5x str damage. There is no penalty to doing this - soldiers are trained to use their rifles as a melee weapon if nessessary, and our kid inherits this. (As an aside, a Limited Wish could produce a single clip for the rifle or two for the sidearm, and a Wish/Miracle could produce 3/6.) So, what do you think? Obviously, our kid is supposed to think that tracking down and stopping the necromancer, along with his strange and fantastical new friends (despite that they should be thinking the same thing about this apparently ordinary human commoner who can run and jump and keep pace with the Fighter, and has this wierd spear that shoots fire,) is the key to getting home - but it's not. This could be an interesting game, though the DM should take steps (Probably acomplished at the beginning by starting him at a lower level, without any wealth or gear besides his warm-weather coat, armament, and clothes, while the rest of the party has magical stuff by now,) to prevent the stranger from stealing the show. Which he shoulden't do, either in roleplay or battle.
MrkGrismer 12-21-04, 05:17 PM	1) I don't understand what this has to do with the Heinlen book the thread is titled after. 2) Been done. 3) To death.
Dash Branaghan 12-21-04, 05:41 PM	Okay, first off, I agree with the 1st point mentioned above...what does this have to do with Heinlein? As for the game...what is the purpose of doing this? I'm not going to decry it because I fail to understand the purpose of this. Is there someone in your group who is willing to play a D20 Modern character in a D&D game (I'm going to assume you are implementing D20 modern into the game to cover the mechanics of gunfighting)? Is this going to disrupt the game at all? After all, I don't see armor doing much as far as the bullets go, so it would seem to me to be a touch attack...and a flat footed touch attack for the first while since no one knows that this "spear" on a stick being held the way you aim a rifle is actually capable of inflicting damage on them. To me, it seems like a lot of work, a touch of a hassle, and while it is a fitting rememberance to your uncle in a way, it doesn't seem to work as far as the campaign goes. In a sense, it seems similar to the D&D cartoon...there was also a book where people who were D&D gamers wound up in a D&D world, though I can't remember the name of the book. Dash
MrkGrismer 12-21-04, 06:25 PM	there was also a book where people who were D&D gamers wound up in a D&D world, though I can't remember the name of the book. You may be thinking of Guardians of the Flame. Not D&D per se, the game was never named.
The Shaman 12-21-04, 06:40 PM	From the perspective of a player, this wouldn't appeal to me. The set-up is too linear for my tastes, and the ability is rather trivial, IMHO - I would much rather play a character integral to the fantasy setting than the "stranger" with a Garand. Someone who wants to play a fantasy alter-ego of himself or herself might enjoy this, but that's never really appealed to me - I prefer my characters to be unique and complete to themselves. BTW, MrkGrismer and Dash Branaghan, Heinlein's book had very little to do with Exodus 2:22: "And she bare him a son, and he [Moses] called his name Gershom: for he said, I have been a stranger in a strange land."
ShadowDragon8685 12-21-04, 07:24 PM	About the title: I didn't even realize except in a vauge way that there was a book title thusly. I was thinking more of "A Connitucuit (sp) Yankee in King Aurthur's Court." Of course, our Garand-wielding kid would be a stranger (to the fantasy characters) in a strange land (where there's hawt elves and ugly ass orcs) And while it is true that mundane Armor bonus to AC would be next to useless against the penetrating .30-06 round (making such attacks a ranged touch attack,) it would still apply to the .45 ACP round, making the character's pistol not a kill-all weapon. (Magical Armor bonus still applies.) And in a world rife with wizardry, it would be very little of a stretch for all but a 3INT orc to realize that this is some new kind of wand that is capable of shooting a very small sling bullet/arrow very fast, that can kill them. Again, remember, this kid hasen't got the versitility of a Fighter in his feats, probably is saddled with skills that are useless here (six ranks in Use Computer aren't going to be much help in a world without computers,) etcetera. So the rifle bullets/thompson and pistol would probably be the only resource that sets him apart from a similarly leveled Warrior with a short spear and a quarterstaff. While the .45 ACP round is heavy and quite capable of doing at least 1d10 damage, you'll go through ammo quite quickly if you start popping off rounds willy nilly at every orc. So he'd probably be resorting to butt smashing people with the rifle.
psionichamster 12-21-04, 08:09 PM	first, its Connecticut...(just a little reminder from us up here in the NE :) ) second: forget the title, this sounds doable... interesting choices of weapons, too... i think this would be a nice way to introduce a new person into the DnD world...particularily if he/she was more familiar with modern tech and was coming into an ongoing game... as far as the zombies/angry undead...sounds plausible enough (at least in fantasy) for a decent backstory...god only knows i've gotten much worse and much less from "dedicated" players... i'm not sure just where you are planning on going with this, though...is this an intro. for a new char? did you want to "spice up" your current campaign? get bored with the dnd mechanics and wanna shake it up? go for it...use the D20 gun mechanics, and i'd say be even harsher...no reloads, unless the "kid" can retain the brass from his shots (dc15-25 search, i'd say, after each battle) and somehow come up with smokeless powder (since blackpowder would destroy the weapons in short order), fulminate of mercury (or its alchemical equivalent) for the primers, and lead (easy enough in DnD economies) for bullets... perhaps a quest to find an alchemist who can help him with the creation of these "magic cartridges" (or whatever you wanna call em) and some more "work" to get the $$$ to finance the manufacturing um...pay no attention to the nay-sayers...innovation always comes under fire (pun completely intended) at first... :P the hamster
ShadowDragon8685 12-21-04, 08:27 PM	Yes, but as has been yelled to death on other boards - it's a very short step from magically finding someone able to manufacture rifle rounds to someone who can then manufacture the rifle, and all of a sudden I have a party where the WIZARD is now toting a tommygun as backup. Then the kid's abilities that balance him Vs. the rest of the party (gunning) are gone, and the rest of the party is mowing down monsters in short order, spending brass like nobody's business. And no, I won't use D20 Modern gun mechanics. As someone who respects a firearm too much to use their craptacular methods. And as for the idea, I don't know. I'm just kind of BSing it around in my head, wondering what y'all think. I'm not running a game right now, but it's a thought that came to me.
Dash Branaghan 12-21-04, 09:09 PM	BTW, MrkGrismer and Dash Branaghan, Heinlein's book had very little to do with Exodus 2:22: "And she bare him a son, and he [Moses] called his name Gershom: for he said, I have been a stranger in a strange land." Well, Valentine Michael Smith did form his own religion. :D Dash
MrkGrismer 12-21-04, 10:15 PM	Indeed he did... ... so what does this have to do with exodus? :D All I am saying is that modern in a fantasy setting or fantasy in a modern setting has been done by - it seems at least - every group that has played the game for 5 years or more. Even 1st Ed had rules covering it (and yes, they were about as detailed as the current ones).
SearcherOmega 12-21-04, 10:30 PM	I like it. I would like to point out, however, that chainmail actually does defend against bullets in d20 Modern, just like bulletproof vests, undercover shirts, and forced entry units. No need to go all wild with 'touch attacks' and all. Just give the gun a good damage and it should still be terribly fearsome. (2d8 - 2d12 is average for a d20 Modern Machine Gun -- maybe 2d10 at most, just to be safe.) Still not as fearsome as the chainsaw. 3d6 baby! :D
Vaval 12-21-04, 10:52 PM	SearcherOmega is right, In a recent d20 modern camapign I GMed I had the PCs fighting some undead, they schreded them instantaniously from a good range and "poped a cap" into the necromancer from across the grave yard with a sniper rifle, not a single of the 15 skeleton or 10 zombies survived vs. 4 PCs, 1 with 2 Desert Eagles, 2 with 1 glock 17s, one with a some kinda SMG, oh and a Ford pickup truck. The Undead are terrably vulnerable to modern weapons, just like any thing lese, the PCs were level 3 and they took on a Large Winged like creature with fast healing 5 and insane HP and Attack damage, the same creature would have killed a group of level 5 D&D characters, oh and due to mist they missed half their attacks aswell, if there was no mist it would have been no contest.
ShadowDragon8685 12-21-04, 11:11 PM	I would think that zombies would be very hardy versus bullets. Think of any undead-fighting game. It should take several caps popped in a zombie to bring him down... Or one shotgun blast at point-blank. :) Or a chainsaw. Zombies are like 600% vunerable to chainsaw damage. Just 'cause. :) Still, as I said, this guy should have serious ammo shortage problems. Like a wizard who gets spells per level, he gets pistol rounds per day, and rifle rounds per level. So he has to be even more careful in stringing out his cap-popping. I would, however, say that chainmail has no hope of stopping a penetrating, pointed .30-06 round. For the same reason it won't stop arrows with long, very thin heads, the ones designed specifically to thwart chainmail.
ShadowDragon8685 12-24-04, 01:32 AM	Just a :bump: And a question, I had another idea that kind of spun-off from this. And I admit this may be a bit cheesy, but hey, cheese can be good. (Or maybe I've been playing too much Call of Duty.) Anyway, the story goes that in our typical D&Dish land, a horde of evil the likes of which the world has never seen (at least since the last time something like this happened,) is gathering on the horizon. But this is a different sort of evil. This horde of evil is a twisted alliance of men, orcs and dwarves from the wildlands - many who are genuinely evil, but far many more who're 'conscripts,' peasents from the areas conquered who've been magically twisted to the evil ends by the BBEG. It is prophecised that no band of ordinary heros can stop this plauge, but only an extraordinary band of brothers... (Can you identify the cheese yet?) Meanwhile, as this is happening on this world, in another world, the year is 1944. World War II is raging across Europe, and once again the 101st Airborne is called upon to parachute behind enemy lines and save the day. Leaping out of perfectly good airplanes, mostly armed with M1 Carbines, Thompson submachine guns, a few with Browning Automatic Rifles and a few M1 Garands, our protagonists find themselves parachuting towards the Alps... When a huge fogbank rolls in. Parachuting through the fog, when they land, they are not in Kansas anymore... Okay, supercheese I know. Still, what do you think?
ShadowbladeFSB 12-24-04, 12:09 PM	Am I the only one that thought "Army of Darkness" with better guns?(and no chainsaw)
ShadowDragon8685 12-24-04, 12:33 PM	What was that? (What was Army of Darkness?)
The Shaman 12-24-04, 12:55 PM	Okay, supercheese I know. Still, what do you think? Reminds me of the Twilight Zone episode in which the U.S. Army tank crew on maneuvers ends up fighting alongside Custer at the Battle of the Little Bighorn. Army of Darkness was a comedy-horror movie starring Bruce Campbell, the third in a series that started with The Evil Dead. Ash (Campbell) is ent back through time to sometime around the Crusades and must locate a book in order to cast a spell that will return him to his own time. Hilarity ensues. Ash uses a shotgun and a chainsaw (among other things) in the movies to fight the various undead and other minions of Hell he encounters.
ShadowDragon8685 12-24-04, 02:06 PM	Hmmm... I didn't mean to rip anything, hehe.
Vaval 12-24-04, 02:46 PM	The WW2 troops would waste the entire army of twisted people from a long range, nothing would be able to stop them, their armor would be usless and a Pistol sidearm does the same damage as a geartsword at range, no contest who so ever. Dont give the in d20 modern armor gives AC bonus vs. guns because thats a differnt game, medevil armor can either defect or slow down bullets and thats why they stopped using it.
ShadowDragon8685 12-24-04, 04:06 PM	Well, they woulden't exactly waste an entire army. It's only one troop, and the enemy does have magic. My thought was that they would be the lynchpin - regular adventurers could slow the army, but you'd need these insertion specialists to sneak behind enemy lines and destroy the leadership.
ShadowDragon8685 02-15-05, 09:39 PM	Having gotten bored recently, I decided to start work on this idea again. At first I was going to use a generic Soldier class and 'kit' them with their training, but as I worked on which soldier types you could choose from, it occured to me that these are wildly different soldiers with specialized jobs. So this is what I have so far. I think I may end up either making seperate classes for them all, or making a boilerplate class and modifying it for each type. *Yanks* American Rifleman: Armed with the M1 Garand rifle, a sizable number of grenades and the Colt M1911 pistol, the American Rifleman was the most feared soldier of WWII, wielding the 'most perfect implement of battle ever devised.' The Garand is equipped with a bayonet. Equipment: M1 Garand 5 Grenades 1 Smoke Grenade M1911 American Staff Sergent: In WWII, the most prized weapon any soldier - Allied or otherwise - could have was the Thompson submachine. While expensive and heavy, the Thompson was overwhelmingly reliable, very durable, and capable of putting up a substantial volume of fire, quite accurately from a crouching or prone position. He carries less grenades than a Rifleman. In WWII, his most powerful asset were the men who would follow his grizzled ass into almost certain doom. Recieves Leadership as a free feat at level 6. (Sadly, does not acquire a squad of Riflemen.) Equipment: Thompson Submachinegun 2 Grenades 2 Smoke Grenades Combat Dagger American Support Infantry: Armed with the Browning Automatic Rifle, the chatter of this soldier's weapon struck fear into the hearts of Nazis and Japanese alike. Firing the heavy .30-06 round extremely accurately and rapidly from a prone position, he was extremely effective at keeping Jerry's head down. In this game, he's quite capapble of showing Drow and Illithids that being horrors from the deep conffers no protection from accurate surpression fire. Carries the same amount of grenades as a staff sergent, and a pistol. Equipment: Browning Automatic Rifle 2 Grenades M1911 Pistol Combat Dagger American Sniper: The Lone Wolf, a single sniper is quite capable of keeping the heads of an entire company of infantry down while they try to figure out where he's shooting from. Armed with a scoped Springfield '03, a pistol and a grenade, he's a long-gunner, pure and simple. The bolt action on his rifle makes repeated shots difficult, and not a good idea in close combat; at long ranges, he can be an overwhelming asset. Equipment: Scoped Springfield '03 1 Grenade M1911 Pistol Combat Dagger American Airbone: 101st Screaming Eagles. The very name strikes fear into the hearts of combat infantryman and guerilla fighters around the globe in this day and age. America's elite large-scale troubleshooters, the Screaming Eagles lead the way. Armed with the M1 Carbine, the M1911 pistol and a mess of grenades, an Airborne soldier is sure to give grief to anyone who faces him. M1 Carbine 5 Grenades 3 Smoke Grenades M1911 Pistol Combat Dagger *Brits* British Rifleman: Armed with the Lee-Enfield long rifle, the and plenty of grenades, these men answered Britain's call in her time of need. Taking to the field with a bolt-action rifle, a helmet and a grim determination to die before seeing England in Hitler's hands, these soldiers time and again proved that the British fighting spirit was more than strong enough to answer the Blitz on the field of battle. The Lee-Enfield is equipped with a bayonet. Equipment: Lee-Enfield Rifle 5 Grenades British SAS: Armed with a silenced Sten Mk. II, a Webley revolver and a few grenades, England's elite troubleshooters were commandos without peer; trained in small-unit tactics, stealth, reconnisence, parachuting, amphibious operations, and much more, England's elite served with distinction throughout the second world war. Equipment: Silenced Sten Mk2 Webley Revolver 3 Grenades 1 Smoke Grenade Combat Dagger British Support Gunner: Armed with a Sten LMG, Webley Revoler and a grenade, the British Support Gunner was often the cornerstone of the Glider-Rider's attacks, being capable of putting down a mobile volume of fire to surpress the enemy. Equipment: Sten Gun Webley Revolver 1 Grenade Combat Dagger British Sniper: What do you get when you combine an already highly-accurated and prized long rifle with a scope? The most feared sniper from World War Two. His Lee-Enfield carries twice the rounds a Springfield '03 or a Kar98 could carry, while retaining all of it's characteristic accuracy. Equipment: Scoped Lee-Enfield Rifle Webley Revolver Combat Dagger Anyone feel like helping? I'm trying to preserve some modicum of game balance, while not whacking anyone with the nerf stick.
Nomad4life 02-15-05, 10:17 PM	All I can say is this: The day we got D20 Modern we “test ran” Return to The Temple of Elemental Evil using a SWAT team in place of heroes. (No, there was no story or explanation for this, it was only a testing period to get used to the rules.) From what I remember, the firearms and explosives laid WASTE to everything… Until the team ran into something with magical DR. Then they were screwed. So, they ran the other way… Eventually, they came upon some spellcasters and were annihilated. One charmed member did most of the damage to his own unit. In short, you may want to consider things like magical DR and spells before introducing firearms into the campaign.
ShadowDragon8685 02-15-05, 11:47 PM	I was planning to make the character's weapons Masterworked, so that they could be magically enhanced. I did think that far ahead. And yeah, having a guy with a low will save and an automatic firearm is kind of a bad idea. Incentive for the wizard/cleric to drop buffs and other will-enhancing stuff on him, eh?
ShadowDragon8685 02-16-05, 06:22 AM	It'd be a lot of work, but... Does anyone have even ideas to help me get started? I mean, which would be a better way of doing this - making each soldier-type an individual class, or making one Soldier class and modifying it for each soldier type?