Post/Author/DateTime	Post
ArchmagusXar 07-18-06, 03:58 PM	Okay, so I'm going to start running a campaign pretty soon and I've encouraged all of my players to design really unique-themed characters. I've developed new rules for the ones that need it, but one is giving me some trouble. And so, I'm turning to you guys for some advice. The rundown: This character is planning on being a Wizard/Cleric/Mystic Theurge who has come across a rather powerful book. The book is going to be an intelligent artifact that wishes to form a symbiotic relationship with the Theurge. What I'm thinking is that every couple of levels, the book offers the character some advantage that comes with a cost. Problem is, I'm not so sure what to offer the character, and even less sure what the penalties will be. For first level, what I'm thinking is the book offers its encyclopedic knowledge (translating into a +5 to all Knowledge checks) in exchange for shared senses with the character so that the book can once again see and hear the world around it. Not really a drawback, but that's just the taste to get him hooked. This is where you guys come in. What else should the book offer? What should the drawbacks to these gifts be? All ideas and suggestions are appreciated!
Cifer 07-18-06, 04:14 PM	For drawbacks, read up on items of legacy. About advantages, look at the archivist class.
Deathmond 07-18-06, 04:20 PM	make sure if he somehow loses the book he takes a rather large hit to something. maybe int/wis? have it get worse as they've been together longer. with that bond it'd be kind of like losing a familiar, only you've tied it more strongly to your mind. let him scribe wizardly spells into the book like a spellbook, except halve the time it takes and negate the gold cost. hey, it's an intelligent item that's linked to his mind, it actually scribes directly from his mind. now, if he happens to mistreat or willingly tries to rid himself of the book...every spell he put in it will be cast on him and anyone near him. like em?
stargate525 07-18-06, 04:29 PM	Perhaps at higher levels give them to option of 'switching' minds, letting the book run the body and the player run the book, or even having them both in one vessel.
pierow37 07-18-06, 04:44 PM	mayb the book wants to speak. So at 4th level the player looses 5 languages. [if not that many, then 3, if not that, then 1.] The player gets in exchange the abilty to magicly transport 50 feet, 5/day. as a free action [can be used right before an attack, to dodge it] There is no resisting the book. If he denies it, then the book will cast EVERY spell the player knows on him at the same time.
Black_Puffin 07-18-06, 05:17 PM	Sounds like a Savage Species Symbiotic critter with an awakened permency-ed animated object or an intellegent item. The book could take over the character with the symbiotic template. Legacies are probably the way to go. I believe the Feindish Familiar graft, in the Fiend Folio, granted higher caster level and spells but made the char weak vs good spells and could not cast good spells. You could do something like that.
WoT Fan 07-18-06, 10:45 PM	Uhh all of those bonuses seem strong for their drawback... +5 to ALL knowledge skills is BEASTLY, especially if it is miscilaneous, so he can still load skillpoints in it. Teleporting 50 feet 5/day is just rediculous, no offense meant. I think encyclopedic knowledge is a good idea, but I would make it only +2 or +3, and make a drawback... Like maybe the book tries to possess him when he has the chance. An example would be "No! There are too many enemies! And they have fire! They'll burn me! We must run!" and try to take over the body to run. The book isn't evil, so never do anything to try and kill the player though. If you have ever read the Wheel of Time books, I think that making him like Lews Therin affecting Rand would be a good idea. He sees someone he hates, he tries to attack him. Once again, even if the book attacks someone using his body, never make it an impossible challange, or have the consequences too harsh. Maybe as payback the guy won't press charges, but they have to do something for him. Using this method, I would suggest that he only tries to take control for a reason, such as fear or anger, not just randomly. Good luck, happy gaming
Morka 07-19-06, 08:06 AM	The Theurge should always have the book in his possession. Problem is, the book weight something like 10-20 lbs. Given a wizard don't use to have a strenght over 10 or 12, he won't be able to carry much more stuff.
Kharmakazy 07-19-06, 09:03 AM	Is this going to be a positive, negative, or neutral symbiotic relationship? Im seeing alot of suggestions of the book taking him over... and thats not the flavor im tasting. Perhaps he begins to take on characteristics of the books previous owner. Sky is the limit there. Gaining a slowly increasing weakness to fire and fire based spells fits in with the idea of it being a book. Increased knowledge checks.. will saves perhaps. Decrease CHA/STR and increase INT/WIS... he spends more time with his book than talking to people or exercising... Just food for thought.
revnk 07-19-06, 10:19 AM	Not sure if this helps, but you may want to revisit the "intelligent item" rules in the DMG (or here (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/intelligentItems.htm). I'd make the book an intelligent item with high INT, WIS, and CHR scores and pick and choose item powers that seemed appropriate or use those powers as a starting point for any unique powers. I would also tie make sure the advantages were tied to the book: if the book has skill ranks or can cast a spell, the posessor may access that power at the book's discretion, unless the owner can force the book to act by exerting his will over the book (see this (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/intelligentItems.htm#itemsAgainstCharact ers)). Depending on the book's aims it might withhold knowledge or deny access to a power--indeed, a plot hook might involve the book deliberately sticking two pages together or smearing its own text so that the player finds out some dreadful piece of information the hard way, the book having lied to him or hidden a fact. Good luck.
Alynn 07-19-06, 10:43 AM	On these I'm assuming the book offers these things but doesn't tell them anything about the downsides... I also tried to base these on what a book could do (thematicly) Perk: Offered +3 bonus to all knowledge checks Drawback: -2 to all wisdom based sensory skills (look, listen, spot), book can now see and hear. Perk: Offers +2 on all fort saves Drawback: Book allowed to use a simple command on the character 3/day (no save) that they will HAVE to do.("run away" "dont fight" "Stab your buddy in the neck he dogeared one of my pages") Book thinks, I'll make him more hardy, but at the same time make sure that he doesn't run into some big ugly fire thing and get me burnt later on) Perk: Offers to give bonus spell slot of X level (no higher than 5) Drawback: Perminantly removes a spell slot of X+4 levels (5th level bonus spell for loss of a 9th level spell) The book thinks it's helping the caster out by giving him more spells, the book doesn't realize (and the wizard won't until later) that doing so messed up his higher level spells. Where you are going with it makes it seem that this intelligent item (which I would venture is some sort of odd djinn or perhaps a wizard whose experiment backfired) and wants to take over the character, I'm trying to think of ways that the book think's it's helping, or helps it and gives it a degree of control over the character, in order to keep it alive. Sensory perception that it normally doesn't have... things like that...
ArchmagusXar 07-19-06, 11:33 AM	Thanks for all the responses, guys! The biggest thing to keep in mind about this book is that it needs the player as much as the player needs it. Without somebody around, the book is incapable of moving, sensing the world around it, or even communicating. It requires several bonds to be formed before it is able to do anything on its own, which requires investment from the player. Of course, for whatever the player gives to the book, the book will return something of equal value. The book is not evil, and is not here to try and control the player. While it is a very powerful item in its own regard, it lacks the dominating ability so many intelligent items have. In fact, it is incapable of casting any sort of spells. It is only able to enhance the abilities of its symbiotic partner. I like the idea of -2 to Spot and Listen as the trade off for the bonus to Knowledge checks; it makes sense as the book tries to see and hear the world around it. Something else I was considering was kind of a blood pact, where the theurge will permanently reduce his Con score in return for a magical bonus (higher than what he gave up, of course) to his Con. Something I want is for the player to have an increasing need to keep the book with him, because if he loses the book, he loses all of the benefits it brings but keeps all of the penalties. Thanks again guys! Loving the feedback!
Black_Puffin 07-19-06, 03:15 PM	If that's the case, then legacies are indeed the way to go. Intelligent legacy would provide the intelligence of the book and the PC would reap the benefits and take penalties.
Dell Kallyan 07-19-06, 03:41 PM	Don't have my books for reference, but Unearthed Arcana (IIRC) has a feat that allows you to form a connection with an inanimate object. Once my DM house ruled that I could lose the familiar ability and get that feat for free when starting a new character, my Battle Sorceror (sorceror variant, also from Unearthed Arcana) bonded with a sword (he was multiclassed with fighter and eventually became an Eldritch Knight). However, the point of the feat is that it makes the object you bond with intelligent as you level up (it takes a bit before the object actually becomes intelligent, however). Pehaps he could start out with the book just being normal, but then take that feat and eventually have the book become intelligent? Maybe that isn't what you're looking for, but check the feat out anyway. Maybe one of the penalties could even be forcing him to take the feat.
AaronDireBear 07-19-06, 03:54 PM	Look in Wikipedia under Symbiosis... Symbiosis is when two creatures depend on one another for either sustenance or protection. There is no "drawback" to be precise. The drawback would be the risks involved in separating. One real life example is the birds that pick out food from a Croc's teeth. They get food, and the croc gets cleaner teeth. Without the croc, the bird starves, without the birds the croc is at the mercy of bacteria. An example in scifi is the Trill from Star Trek. The symbiant grants knowledge and experience in exchange for a place where it is protected from the elements. Removing the symbiant could mean death for the host AND the symbiant. If a trill host dies, the symbiant cans till be saved. (see wikipedia under Dax Symbiant) I would suggest making it something organic if you are going to call it a Symbiosis....otherwise, its just a weapon of legacy in book form. Just an idea if this happens to be a good aligned character: Wisdom Archon, Tiny Outsider, good, symbiant. This glowing starfish-like creature is imbued with the knowledge of previous hosts, and it grants a bit of that knowledge and experience to every new host. The amount of Hit Dice a Wisdom Archon Possesses represents how many hosts it has had. To gain a new HD, the host must have gained at least one level during its time AND placed skill points into any two Knowledge skills. Wisdom Archons are very frail, and their bodies do not produce blood naturally. They latch onto the neck or shoulder of their hosts painlessly, and forge a two way link between the circulatory system of the host and the Archon. Transferring hosts safely involves a ritual in which the archon is slowly moved to its new body, first by latching one of its arms to the new host and cycling some blood, then a second one. While the new and the old host each have two arms latched onto them, they experience a form of bonding in which not only blood but memories are shared through the archon. When the archon has grown accustomed to the blood of its new host, it latches it quickly detaches its underside from the old host and onto the new one. Before teh final tendrils detach, the archon casts a special Orison to painlessly and peacefully sever the emotional, physiological and mental bond between itself and the old host; this ensures that the old host will not feel any kind of separation anxiety or withdrawal symptoms after the archon is gone. Benefits: Bonus equal to all knowledge checks equal to 1/4 the HD of the archon. Risks: Intelligence OR Charisma OR Wisdom drain, 1d4 constitution damage, 1d6 damage per round until bleeding stopped. Symbiant Subtype: A symbiant can not survive on its own because it lacks either a certain nutrient it needs, or is unable to breathe the air it requires due to lack of a respiratory orifice. Unlike a parasite, a Symbiant grants something in return for the air and sustenance. Instead of taking penalties, symbiants have separation risks. If the host dies or if the symbiant is forcibly removed, the symbiant must make a fortitude save every hour (until a new host is found) or die itself. If the symbiant is forcibly removed from the host, the host also suffers certain consequences; often ability drain and in most cases will have a bleeding wound at the attachment point. Example Wisdom Archon: Claire Favored Personality: Female 40 HD Claire has been around for centuries, having been the symbiant to 40 hosts. She remembers being a mother 17 times, and a father 10 times. Most of her hosts were sorcerers, though she also had wizards, bards, clerics, Druids, rangers and even a Paladin as a host at one point. Every host she is implanted onto gains a bonus to his knowledge checks equal to 1/4 of her HD (+10). She prefers to be close to the heart under the warmth of her hosts' robe. Her latest host, an elven sorceress named Laina, has picked up the habit of drinking Kragg, which was the favorite drink of her predecessor of 120 years: a half-orc barbarian named Luz.