Post/Author/DateTime	Post
BloodDragon 06-12-06, 11:05 AM	This morning I checked in at the boards and I find myself reading not one, not two, but three different threads for keeping Paladin Alignment. So I thought of a little advice that helped me out. When playing through one of the expansions for Neverwinter Nights I noticed right at the beginning of the game it starts asking you alignment problems. One of them was along the lines of “What would you if you found a Goblin mother & Child drowning in the river?” To my surprise a NPC Paladin near by shout out to let them die because they were creatures of evil. The ‘Good’ answer was to save them obviously. So this gave me a little idea I kept locked away until a time I was DMing with a paladin (with questionable alignment that is). So eventually a Paladin bordering his alignment restriction came along, and after they’ve achieved rescuing a large town from a threat. The church of the Paladin’s Deity (Can’t remember who it who this was some time ago.) was very pleased with this “Excellent Example of how a defender of justice should be!” the church was not told the actually methods of how this paladin went about his job, simply the outcomes. SO the church sent an Adept-Paladin to train under the PC’s Pally. The PC was thrilled to have his very own student he could ‘boss around’. The Paladin-in-training I made out to be a reckless character and as soon as he detected evil or saw a creature that is stereotypically ‘evil’ he attacked. The idea behind this was it got the PC’s Paladin more inline. Instead of randomly attacking anything ‘evil’ he pulled the student back and lectured him about right and wrong. This also gave me some insight on how the player himself views his alignment. I would occasionally object to something he said but generally since he was teaching someone he was more on his toes himself. Although looking back I shouldn’t have objected at all and only offered suggestions if anything at all. After all it’s the PC character. After a few adventures the church recalled the Trainee and based on how well the Pally taught what it ment to be a Paladin, I rewarded him. In my case I gave him a “Sword of the Teacher” which had the holy property, for such a good job because he really did do an outstanding job, I was impressed. He was so happy and I rarely had to worry about him being so reckless or breaking oath anymore. The few occasions he did do something out of alignment I could bring something that he himself had taught. So he was more inclined to agree since it was his own lesson. I highly recommend this method to other DM’s since it worked so well for myself. Though be warned because it can swing both ways the Paladin may join in on the recklessness which is what I was afraid of happening. If that does turn out to be the case I guess you’d have more then reasonable ground to take his divine powers but hopefully it shouldn’t come to that. Anyway the Trainee should level like a Paladin with no spells, or maybe a Fighter or NPC warrior class, but if you have groups like mine be sure to give him ‘Some’ use or else he’s just dead weight. I gave to trainee max rank in Healing and cooking. Nothing makes a party happier then being health and full, other then hoards of treasure that is.
LCD2YOU 06-12-06, 11:11 AM	In other words, the DM and the player need to sit down and with written instructions (that is a way to simulate the years of training a paladin recieves) and go over them, together. The DM, especially on a Paladin Newbie, should also "remind the neophyte" of "lessons their character learned when they squired/trained/ went to fetch more ale for that Paladin, the great/mentally unbalanced/jaded/freaking insane Sir Robin.
wrecan 06-12-06, 11:15 AM	The answer to all alignment threads: The DM and player need to discuss what is appropriate behavior for [alignment-restricted class] at some point, either remote or close in time, before [the alignment-restricted character] is punished in-game for inappropriate behavior.
BloodDragon 06-12-06, 11:20 AM	Ofcourse you should sit down and talk to the player first :\ But haven't you ever had a player where you explain a situation and they 'still' continue to go against it. I personally think there is a difference to knowing something and actually doing it. Besides this method was much more fun. No one likes to be lectured about how their playing 'their' character wrong.
LCD2YOU 06-12-06, 11:24 AM	Ofcourse you should sit down and talk to the player first :\ But haven't you ever had a player where you explain a situation and they 'still' continue to go against it. I personally think there is a difference to knowing something and actually doing it. Besides this method was much more fun. No one likes to be lectured about how their playing 'their' character wrong.There's more than just talking: There are examples. There are written instructions. Like with my daughter, I say something like "No", and she hears, "It's okay to go to your friend's house for the weekend and to the beach with her and her 18 year old brother and his friends". Sometimes you have to have them read it with you what you are saying exactly. If they come into a situation that you didn't have written down, the next course on what happens depends on: The player's age. The player's ability to RP. The player's past characters. If the player had always played the CN Barbarian, they'll need more help than not. Reminders is never a bad option.
Arganis 06-12-06, 11:28 AM	This morning I checked in at the boards and I find myself reading not one, not two, but three different threads for keeping Paladin Alignment. Four now.
wrecan 06-12-06, 11:29 AM	But haven't you ever had a player where you explain a situation and they 'still' continue to go against it. Then the consequences of the action are the consequences. I don't "lecture" the fighter when he swings his heavy mace at the rust monster rather than picking up a wooden club, after the monster ate his longsword. Why should alignment be different... once the players and DM agree on the rules.
KJW 06-12-06, 12:00 PM	BloodDragon, personally, I think what you did is a good idea and kudos for it. I have used the technique before with Jedi PCs in Star Wars (d6 & d20) and cleric PCs in D&D before, give someone a student and they start roleplaying to a higher moral standard and in general their roleplaying improves. And, yes, all DMs have had players who don't get it (or ignore it) after rigorous explanation, sure you can use consequences, but like kids some players aren't that good with connecting consequences to their actions. Your method is a more subtle and effective way of DMing, especially as next time you will just let the PC teach without objections and just roleplay the student's reaction. So, once again, good job.
danielinthewolvesden 06-12-06, 12:33 PM	It the DM has strong ideas of Alignment, or the Player doesn't... then two things are needed- a "talk " (IC or OOC) about what is expected of a Pally in that campaign, and a requirement that the Pally have a Phylactery of Faithfulness. In fact, it wouldn't hurt game balane a bit if Paladins got the Feat which duplicates that item as a Bonus Feat @ 1st level. The Phylatery is the 100% perfect solution to all these 'my pally did thuis, should I remove his powers?" :rolleyes: threads. Of course, the other perfect solution to many of such threads is closing down all of those started by trolls. :P
LCD2YOU 06-12-06, 01:10 PM	Four now.The day is still young.