A troubling predicament [Archive] - Wizards Community

A troubling predicament [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
MasonMurdoc
05-07-07, 02:54 PM Problem solved. But I'd still like to hear what people have to say.

I've recently been a campaign that my entire group wants to play
Except I'm not sure I want to and they'll ge all annoyed with me

Firstly it's already been decided that they're 6t level due to how the whole thing starts.
Next, they want it to be set around them hunting Demons and Devils and though I had some ideas i enjoyed playing around with for a while, I'm always coming up with ideas that don't fit with the Demons/Devils theme so I'm unable too implement the into the campaign.
Third problem, I have SEVEN players.

This was thought up by all the players when I asked them what kind of campaign they wanted to play in, and eventually one of said players ending up DMing. He ended up bored so tried to kill us off. Then I took over again

I was in the middle of planning my own campaign with four players an they were all level 1.
I like level 1, it lets you get to know the characters.

Besides, this is my second campaign, you could even say first.

I think I've mentioned everything I need to. Plus some.
What would any of you do in a situation like this.
Kerin
05-07-07, 03:20 PM First off, welcome to DMing!

And second off, you need to get your act together. DMing isn't all about appeasing the players - if they only fight stuff they want to, exactly how is it any fun for anybody? Nobody in real life knows what they'll have to deal with tomorrow; there's no reason why your players should, either. You're running the game, plan it how you like.

I'm sensing that you're having a little bit of trouble asserting yourself; this is normal, but it's absolutely something you'll need to get over. As the Dungeon Master, they can expect you to be fair and reasonable; beyond that, what you say goes. If what you say is unreasonable, they'll leave; if what you say is reasonable and they leave, that's their problem and you should find someone else to game with.

Force of personality is a very integral part of running a good game of D&D, so stick up for yourself!

And finally, censoring swearwords with asterisks doesn't exactly fly here. Might want to fix that, mon ami!

Edit: Seven players is fine if you've got the focus to handle it. You'll just need to throw harder stuff at them.
MasonMurdoc
05-07-07, 05:22 PM Thanks, Kerin. Problem solved.
One player reacted badly but that makes things a tad easier.
I'm still curious to what other DMs would do though.
Fraser1986
05-07-07, 06:13 PM I am glad you have solved the problem, what would I do in your place? Firstly, if I was uncomfortable running a game with 7 players (and I am uncomfortable with the idea) i would not do so. I would either suggest that some people play in a seperate game or try to enlist one of the players as a co-dm. I've co-dmed before and it can work well, although it has challenges all of its own.

Secondly, the issue of campaign theme. Normally, I am all for campaigns that are not simply designed by the DMs. Too often DMs come up with ideas and adopt a "like it or lump it" policy to players playing in it. Your situation seems to be the opposite, if the players really like the idea of a game focusing on hunting demons and you don't, it is unfair of them to expect you to run it. The best solution here is for one of the players who likes the Demons theme to run the game, if the DM doesn't like the theme the game isn't going to be much fun anyway.

Finally, the issue of what level to start on. You like level 1, they want to start at level 6. A compromise can be worked out here. They obviously want to start out a little more powerful, you like the character development that comes with playing from level 1. So if you can find some other way of developing characters, they could start at 6 and you'd all be happy right? Why not have a sort of "accelerated" level 1-5, sort of like an introduction. You maybe play 2 sessions or so where the characters very quickly progress to level 6, the idea being these sessions provide a background to the campaign.

Hope that helps, and once again I congratulate you on dealing with the problem
Brian_Link
05-07-07, 10:08 PM Well I'm fairly new to DMing myself. I'd personally go for starting at Level 1 as well. It allows you to know what your characters are doing and don't have to deal with wierd CRs. CRs aren't that hard to figure out, but they can still be messy when you are trying to mix multiple enemies of different types (which you will be doing if you have Demons and Devils).

But I can definitely see for the story having the war between the armies of Baaxtor and the Abyss flood over into the Material Plane. If you have that happen, you may want to pick up Heros of Battle. Which will be good with seven people, as I can not see a serious role-play experience happening unless you get a CoDM and have points where the group splits into two.

But either way remember, at Level 1, Kobolds: Easy XP, unless they're Pun-Pun.
MasonMurdoc
05-08-07, 07:22 AM The 7 player problem has possibly been solved
Me and 3 of the players are in another campaign
So those three will be leavng
This might not work because the one who threw a hissy fit about me changing mine is one of those three
So I may end up leaving tha one to avoid hassle for the DM
So I may go back to 6
terrainmonkey
05-08-07, 08:46 AM i know this might be difficult to do, but here's some suggestions to make it easier. use pre written adventures. if the characters want to fight demons and devils, the current Dungeon AP, savage Tide, is perfect. the villains are great, the dungeons are tough, the monsters are fantastic, and the adventures take them from a large city to the gates of the abyss and beyond, all from level 1-20. starting groups should ALWAYS start at level 1, using core books ONLY! the more splat books you have, the more confusion and rules it brings up. 3.5 is a rules heavy game, and while it may make it easier to play, there are a lot of times when rules discussion takes up time. be prepared to make decisions on the spot.

remember, YOU ARE THE DM! What you say goes. period, end of sentence! if a player starts getting mouthy, don't be afraid to take some XP away from him. if a player starts to question you about the rules, or questions your calls period, smack him with an xp penalty, or take a level away, or just outright kill his PC. that'll teach 'em. don't take any guff from your players, stand firm, and if they start whining, tell them to shut up or find the door. that's the old school way. (sarcasm, of course.)

actually, it all comes down to "let the wookie win."

don't get attached to NPCs. you may have that great villain you've worked hard on and want to protect, but the PCs WILL manage to kill him before he's "supposed" to be killed. don't worry, give it to them. just make the next bad guy better. amp up the stakes. also, don't be afraid to let the dice fall where they may and if you end up with a PC death, or a TPK because of the dice or whatever gods of luck fail the party, go with it. have them make up new PCs. death is a part of adventuring, and i've DMed more than my fair share of TPKs over the years. they always end up being fun for everyone. never, ever, be afraid to kill a PC. don't hold back, don't pull punches or fudge the dice. your players will respect you for it. if you don't let your PCs die when they should the players take advantage of the situation and keep pushing the wall with more and more absurd actions that SHOULD kill them, only to be saved by the miraculous hand of the OVERDIETY (DM). if, by their own stupidity, they get into a situation that should kill them, by all means do it.

sorry to be so long winded here, just giving you perspective from a 27+ yr. DM
MasonMurdoc
05-08-07, 09:09 AM i know this might be difficult to do, but here's some suggestions to make it easier. use pre written adventures. if the characters want to fight demons and devils, the current Dungeon AP, savage Tide, is perfect. the villains are great, the dungeons are tough, the monsters are fantastic, and the adventures take them from a large city to the gates of the abyss and beyond, all from level 1-20. starting groups should ALWAYS start at level 1, using core books ONLY! the more splat books you have, the more confusion and rules it brings up. 3.5 is a rules heavy game, and while it may make it easier to play, there are a lot of times when rules discussion takes up time. be prepared to make decisions on the spot.

remember, YOU ARE THE DM! What you say goes. period, end of sentence! if a player starts getting mouthy, don't be afraid to take some XP away from him. if a player starts to question you about the rules, or questions your calls period, smack him with an xp penalty, or take a level away, or just outright kill his PC. that'll teach 'em. don't take any guff from your players, stand firm, and if they start whining, tell them to shut up or find the door. that's the old school way. (sarcasm, of course.)

actually, it all comes down to "let the wookie win."

don't get attached to NPCs. you may have that great villain you've worked hard on and want to protect, but the PCs WILL manage to kill him before he's "supposed" to be killed. don't worry, give it to them. just make the next bad guy better. amp up the stakes. also, don't be afraid to let the dice fall where they may and if you end up with a PC death, or a TPK because of the dice or whatever gods of luck fail the party, go with it. have them make up new PCs. death is a part of adventuring, and i've DMed more than my fair share of TPKs over the years. they always end up being fun for everyone. never, ever, be afraid to kill a PC. don't hold back, don't pull punches or fudge the dice. your players will respect you for it. if you don't let your PCs die when they should the players take advantage of the situation and keep pushing the wall with more and more absurd actions that SHOULD kill them, only to be saved by the miraculous hand of the OVERDIETY (DM). if, by their own stupidity, they get into a situation that should kill them, by all means do it.

sorry to be so long winded here, just giving you perspective from a 27+ yr. DM

Thanks, for the advice.
I'll look into that Savage Tides thing.:)

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
MasonMurdoc 05-07-07, 02:54 PM	Problem solved. But I'd still like to hear what people have to say. I've recently been a campaign that my entire group wants to play Except I'm not sure I want to and they'll ge all annoyed with me Firstly it's already been decided that they're 6t level due to how the whole thing starts. Next, they want it to be set around them hunting Demons and Devils and though I had some ideas i enjoyed playing around with for a while, I'm always coming up with ideas that don't fit with the Demons/Devils theme so I'm unable too implement the into the campaign. Third problem, I have SEVEN players. This was thought up by all the players when I asked them what kind of campaign they wanted to play in, and eventually one of said players ending up DMing. He ended up bored so tried to kill us off. Then I took over again I was in the middle of planning my own campaign with four players an they were all level 1. I like level 1, it lets you get to know the characters. Besides, this is my second campaign, you could even say first. I think I've mentioned everything I need to. Plus some. What would any of you do in a situation like this.
Kerin 05-07-07, 03:20 PM	First off, welcome to DMing! And second off, you need to get your act together. DMing isn't all about appeasing the players - if they only fight stuff they want to, exactly how is it any fun for anybody? Nobody in real life knows what they'll have to deal with tomorrow; there's no reason why your players should, either. You're running the game, plan it how you like. I'm sensing that you're having a little bit of trouble asserting yourself; this is normal, but it's absolutely something you'll need to get over. As the Dungeon Master, they can expect you to be fair and reasonable; beyond that, what you say goes. If what you say is unreasonable, they'll leave; if what you say is reasonable and they leave, that's their problem and you should find someone else to game with. Force of personality is a very integral part of running a good game of D&D, so stick up for yourself! And finally, censoring swearwords with asterisks doesn't exactly fly here. Might want to fix that, mon ami! Edit: Seven players is fine if you've got the focus to handle it. You'll just need to throw harder stuff at them.
MasonMurdoc 05-07-07, 05:22 PM	Thanks, Kerin. Problem solved. One player reacted badly but that makes things a tad easier. I'm still curious to what other DMs would do though.
Fraser1986 05-07-07, 06:13 PM	I am glad you have solved the problem, what would I do in your place? Firstly, if I was uncomfortable running a game with 7 players (and I am uncomfortable with the idea) i would not do so. I would either suggest that some people play in a seperate game or try to enlist one of the players as a co-dm. I've co-dmed before and it can work well, although it has challenges all of its own. Secondly, the issue of campaign theme. Normally, I am all for campaigns that are not simply designed by the DMs. Too often DMs come up with ideas and adopt a "like it or lump it" policy to players playing in it. Your situation seems to be the opposite, if the players really like the idea of a game focusing on hunting demons and you don't, it is unfair of them to expect you to run it. The best solution here is for one of the players who likes the Demons theme to run the game, if the DM doesn't like the theme the game isn't going to be much fun anyway. Finally, the issue of what level to start on. You like level 1, they want to start at level 6. A compromise can be worked out here. They obviously want to start out a little more powerful, you like the character development that comes with playing from level 1. So if you can find some other way of developing characters, they could start at 6 and you'd all be happy right? Why not have a sort of "accelerated" level 1-5, sort of like an introduction. You maybe play 2 sessions or so where the characters very quickly progress to level 6, the idea being these sessions provide a background to the campaign. Hope that helps, and once again I congratulate you on dealing with the problem
Brian_Link 05-07-07, 10:08 PM	Well I'm fairly new to DMing myself. I'd personally go for starting at Level 1 as well. It allows you to know what your characters are doing and don't have to deal with wierd CRs. CRs aren't that hard to figure out, but they can still be messy when you are trying to mix multiple enemies of different types (which you will be doing if you have Demons and Devils). But I can definitely see for the story having the war between the armies of Baaxtor and the Abyss flood over into the Material Plane. If you have that happen, you may want to pick up Heros of Battle. Which will be good with seven people, as I can not see a serious role-play experience happening unless you get a CoDM and have points where the group splits into two. But either way remember, at Level 1, Kobolds: Easy XP, unless they're Pun-Pun.
MasonMurdoc 05-08-07, 07:22 AM	The 7 player problem has possibly been solved Me and 3 of the players are in another campaign So those three will be leavng This might not work because the one who threw a hissy fit about me changing mine is one of those three So I may end up leaving tha one to avoid hassle for the DM So I may go back to 6
terrainmonkey 05-08-07, 08:46 AM	i know this might be difficult to do, but here's some suggestions to make it easier. use pre written adventures. if the characters want to fight demons and devils, the current Dungeon AP, savage Tide, is perfect. the villains are great, the dungeons are tough, the monsters are fantastic, and the adventures take them from a large city to the gates of the abyss and beyond, all from level 1-20. starting groups should ALWAYS start at level 1, using core books ONLY! the more splat books you have, the more confusion and rules it brings up. 3.5 is a rules heavy game, and while it may make it easier to play, there are a lot of times when rules discussion takes up time. be prepared to make decisions on the spot. remember, YOU ARE THE DM! What you say goes. period, end of sentence! if a player starts getting mouthy, don't be afraid to take some XP away from him. if a player starts to question you about the rules, or questions your calls period, smack him with an xp penalty, or take a level away, or just outright kill his PC. that'll teach 'em. don't take any guff from your players, stand firm, and if they start whining, tell them to shut up or find the door. that's the old school way. (sarcasm, of course.) actually, it all comes down to "let the wookie win." don't get attached to NPCs. you may have that great villain you've worked hard on and want to protect, but the PCs WILL manage to kill him before he's "supposed" to be killed. don't worry, give it to them. just make the next bad guy better. amp up the stakes. also, don't be afraid to let the dice fall where they may and if you end up with a PC death, or a TPK because of the dice or whatever gods of luck fail the party, go with it. have them make up new PCs. death is a part of adventuring, and i've DMed more than my fair share of TPKs over the years. they always end up being fun for everyone. never, ever, be afraid to kill a PC. don't hold back, don't pull punches or fudge the dice. your players will respect you for it. if you don't let your PCs die when they should the players take advantage of the situation and keep pushing the wall with more and more absurd actions that SHOULD kill them, only to be saved by the miraculous hand of the OVERDIETY (DM). if, by their own stupidity, they get into a situation that should kill them, by all means do it. sorry to be so long winded here, just giving you perspective from a 27+ yr. DM
MasonMurdoc 05-08-07, 09:09 AM	i know this might be difficult to do, but here's some suggestions to make it easier. use pre written adventures. if the characters want to fight demons and devils, the current Dungeon AP, savage Tide, is perfect. the villains are great, the dungeons are tough, the monsters are fantastic, and the adventures take them from a large city to the gates of the abyss and beyond, all from level 1-20. starting groups should ALWAYS start at level 1, using core books ONLY! the more splat books you have, the more confusion and rules it brings up. 3.5 is a rules heavy game, and while it may make it easier to play, there are a lot of times when rules discussion takes up time. be prepared to make decisions on the spot. remember, YOU ARE THE DM! What you say goes. period, end of sentence! if a player starts getting mouthy, don't be afraid to take some XP away from him. if a player starts to question you about the rules, or questions your calls period, smack him with an xp penalty, or take a level away, or just outright kill his PC. that'll teach 'em. don't take any guff from your players, stand firm, and if they start whining, tell them to shut up or find the door. that's the old school way. (sarcasm, of course.) actually, it all comes down to "let the wookie win." don't get attached to NPCs. you may have that great villain you've worked hard on and want to protect, but the PCs WILL manage to kill him before he's "supposed" to be killed. don't worry, give it to them. just make the next bad guy better. amp up the stakes. also, don't be afraid to let the dice fall where they may and if you end up with a PC death, or a TPK because of the dice or whatever gods of luck fail the party, go with it. have them make up new PCs. death is a part of adventuring, and i've DMed more than my fair share of TPKs over the years. they always end up being fun for everyone. never, ever, be afraid to kill a PC. don't hold back, don't pull punches or fudge the dice. your players will respect you for it. if you don't let your PCs die when they should the players take advantage of the situation and keep pushing the wall with more and more absurd actions that SHOULD kill them, only to be saved by the miraculous hand of the OVERDIETY (DM). if, by their own stupidity, they get into a situation that should kill them, by all means do it. sorry to be so long winded here, just giving you perspective from a 27+ yr. DM Thanks, for the advice. I'll look into that Savage Tides thing.:)