A Villain You Just Can't Let Go [Archive] - Wizards Community

A Villain You Just Can't Let Go [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Angelflesh
05-26-06, 12:29 AM Do you ever create a villain that you want to go up against the PCs but you like him/her so much that you don't want them to die?

Example: I was really fond of the Witch Slayer PrC in Tome of Magic. So... i decided to create a squad or group of Witch Slayers. The leader is a human named Gamov, and he has 4 team members, Fahuk; a half-giant, Jonah; a human and Gamov's right hand, Quinn; the scout and sometimes inside man, and finally, the villain i wanna hold on to, Clint; an azurin in his early twenties, head strong, ambitious, but arrogant and overconfident of his abilities. Pretty much the apprentice in the group.

Anyways, all that aside. I wanna make this Clint guy stick, but i dunno if i'll be able to let him be killed off by the PCs. Does anyone have any good ideas or explanations why a villain might not be defeated by the PCs? Ya know, besides turning over a new leaf and joining their ranks and such.
Uratoh
05-26-06, 01:51 AM well...one tip is to run him as a 'PC' and not some numbers. All my non-mook villains end up run that way...theyre not just there to be killed by the PCs, they're there to accomplish goals etc. the PCs interfere, they may run, try again...

One of my villains actually accomplished his goals (granted he wasnt a 'conquer the world muahaha!' villain) and has actually retired. Since he used the PCs so much (traveling in disguise with them) he may actually be someone that they can turn to in emergency in the future...if they're willing to lower themselves to asking for help...

with villains...think. What do they want, really? then set about helping them get it with the resources they have at hand!
BeerMan5000
05-26-06, 04:00 AM "I'll live to fight another day... now it's time to run away." - The motto of every recurring bad guy.

Good Arch-villain Bad-guys don't make it their missions to die, and are most effective when they directly avoid confrontation, preferring to work through assasins and mercenaries for dealing with "troublesome adventurers". Just because the bad guy is a high lvl wizard, cleric or black guard doesn't mean he will rush headlong into the lions den or stick around the fight people who manage to penetrate their camps and fortresses of doom. Those kinds of things are for when the stakes are extremely high and it is their only choice of action... which means it should always be the last choice of action.

So the players decide to pursue them... great, but there are lot's of ways that the BBEG can through them off the trail.

Things he can do to confuse the players and insure his continued survival: circulate the rumor that he's traveled to some distant dangerous kingdom... if the players follow then of course he can go about being evil again at his leisure.

Better yet, circulate the rumor that he's taken up residence in a very dangerous monster's lair or with some dangerous group of outlaws hoping that it will take care of them for him.

Still better yet, pit the players against one of his enemies or other of his foes (evil or not) in the hopes whatever happens the outcome will be in his favor regardless.

Additionally, the man can harry the prey... send multiple mercenaries against them at rapid intervals. Send mercenaries against their hometowns, their villages, the defenseless NPC's they've helped in the past, etc. Keep them guessing, keep them on their toes. Plant evidence on the mercenaries and assasins so that should they fail the players believe them to be the agents of another entity, such as a forged document indicating a benevolent nobleman or that leads them on a mistaken quest of some sort (preferrably one that aids the BBEG directly or indirectly).

If you want the BBEG to more directly assail the players... things get a little more dicey, but it's still very do-able. Reincarnation, resurrection, raise dead, etc are wonderful choices for bad guys who you'd like to keep around. Also, invisibility, teleportation, dimension door, planar travel, etc are quick get me out of a jam spells... he doesn't have to be a wizard just one with the right equipment (a ring of invis at mid lvl's is a sure fire way to increase a BBEG's survivability... along with a healthy desire to keep breathing.)

But you don't just have to rely on magic tricks. Keep the guy out of reach. Have him appointed sheriff of a small fief of land or county. For that matter have him appointed to almost any corrupted official's institution of government, church, or nobility and the player's will not be able to openly move against him as long as they have no solid proof of his misdeed's.

Even if they do have proof, it my not be enough if he's working for the right people. If a scrappy little dog bites you that happens to belong to a tough enough guy then you'll think twice about kicking him in public. This may not seem fair to players, but few problems that plague great heroes are fair. They either rise above them through cunning, luck or martial prowess... or they die valiant deaths and find their ways to the PC Valhalla.

Just a few nuggets of thought.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Angelflesh 05-26-06, 12:29 AM	Do you ever create a villain that you want to go up against the PCs but you like him/her so much that you don't want them to die? Example: I was really fond of the Witch Slayer PrC in Tome of Magic. So... i decided to create a squad or group of Witch Slayers. The leader is a human named Gamov, and he has 4 team members, Fahuk; a half-giant, Jonah; a human and Gamov's right hand, Quinn; the scout and sometimes inside man, and finally, the villain i wanna hold on to, Clint; an azurin in his early twenties, head strong, ambitious, but arrogant and overconfident of his abilities. Pretty much the apprentice in the group. Anyways, all that aside. I wanna make this Clint guy stick, but i dunno if i'll be able to let him be killed off by the PCs. Does anyone have any good ideas or explanations why a villain might not be defeated by the PCs? Ya know, besides turning over a new leaf and joining their ranks and such.
Uratoh 05-26-06, 01:51 AM	well...one tip is to run him as a 'PC' and not some numbers. All my non-mook villains end up run that way...theyre not just there to be killed by the PCs, they're there to accomplish goals etc. the PCs interfere, they may run, try again... One of my villains actually accomplished his goals (granted he wasnt a 'conquer the world muahaha!' villain) and has actually retired. Since he used the PCs so much (traveling in disguise with them) he may actually be someone that they can turn to in emergency in the future...if they're willing to lower themselves to asking for help... with villains...think. What do they want, really? then set about helping them get it with the resources they have at hand!
BeerMan5000 05-26-06, 04:00 AM	"I'll live to fight another day... now it's time to run away." - The motto of every recurring bad guy. Good Arch-villain Bad-guys don't make it their missions to die, and are most effective when they directly avoid confrontation, preferring to work through assasins and mercenaries for dealing with "troublesome adventurers". Just because the bad guy is a high lvl wizard, cleric or black guard doesn't mean he will rush headlong into the lions den or stick around the fight people who manage to penetrate their camps and fortresses of doom. Those kinds of things are for when the stakes are extremely high and it is their only choice of action... which means it should always be the last choice of action. So the players decide to pursue them... great, but there are lot's of ways that the BBEG can through them off the trail. Things he can do to confuse the players and insure his continued survival: circulate the rumor that he's traveled to some distant dangerous kingdom... if the players follow then of course he can go about being evil again at his leisure. Better yet, circulate the rumor that he's taken up residence in a very dangerous monster's lair or with some dangerous group of outlaws hoping that it will take care of them for him. Still better yet, pit the players against one of his enemies or other of his foes (evil or not) in the hopes whatever happens the outcome will be in his favor regardless. Additionally, the man can harry the prey... send multiple mercenaries against them at rapid intervals. Send mercenaries against their hometowns, their villages, the defenseless NPC's they've helped in the past, etc. Keep them guessing, keep them on their toes. Plant evidence on the mercenaries and assasins so that should they fail the players believe them to be the agents of another entity, such as a forged document indicating a benevolent nobleman or that leads them on a mistaken quest of some sort (preferrably one that aids the BBEG directly or indirectly). If you want the BBEG to more directly assail the players... things get a little more dicey, but it's still very do-able. Reincarnation, resurrection, raise dead, etc are wonderful choices for bad guys who you'd like to keep around. Also, invisibility, teleportation, dimension door, planar travel, etc are quick get me out of a jam spells... he doesn't have to be a wizard just one with the right equipment (a ring of invis at mid lvl's is a sure fire way to increase a BBEG's survivability... along with a healthy desire to keep breathing.) But you don't just have to rely on magic tricks. Keep the guy out of reach. Have him appointed sheriff of a small fief of land or county. For that matter have him appointed to almost any corrupted official's institution of government, church, or nobility and the player's will not be able to openly move against him as long as they have no solid proof of his misdeed's. Even if they do have proof, it my not be enough if he's working for the right people. If a scrappy little dog bites you that happens to belong to a tough enough guy then you'll think twice about kicking him in public. This may not seem fair to players, but few problems that plague great heroes are fair. They either rise above them through cunning, luck or martial prowess... or they die valiant deaths and find their ways to the PC Valhalla. Just a few nuggets of thought.