Post/Author/DateTime	Post
moscher 01-13-05, 03:59 PM	A warning to all: Do not take it TOO seriously… Getting away from reality is one thing, mixing the two realities quite another! A group I have been DMing for years has more or less split up. Why? While most of the players and me have always done it for pure enjoyment, one of the players has gotten more and more into it, (includes life role playing and pretty much everything else...) and a nice weekend ended in PERSONAL disputes which had very little to do with D&D... I read a few threads in this forum... this problem is not unique. DMs complaining about players’ ego trips, people spending more time to think about the morals of paladins than about their own affairs...the list goes on... I am truly sad to have experienced what TOO excessive role playing can do. Please forgive if this mail offends any truly dedicated players and DM (and I am sure there are loads of you here...) just keep the balance right and enjoy playing...
Shadow DM 01-13-05, 04:20 PM	Well, here is my two cents... There is a certain type of personality that can become obscessed with anything. Be it D&D, a movie, and actor(hence stalkers), a person, a love interest, a game, ect... It's not really D&D, it's this type of personality that causes this problem to arise. AKA It's not the knife who kills someone, it's the person stabbing with the knife. So yeah, the thing is D&D is something that is easy to get hooked on...hence this huge forum and all the books and the biggest role-playing game in the world yatta yatta. It's up to each of us individually to not let D&D become just a little too important to us. It is only a game, meant to be played for fun. And it's perfecly fine to get really into a game, role-play well, ect... Even having arguments about alignment and personal views of your characters is fine as long as it does not end friendships. D&D is meant to be enjoyed and give us dorks a reason to be social...lord knows we need it sometimes. So yeah, lots of love and keep the faith fellow DMs!
moscher 01-13-05, 04:36 PM	well said dude, earned that xp in real life? :) still, I'd rather be obsessed with a real person than some imaginary character. mmh? second thought: this excludes a lot of people...
Razoreface 01-13-05, 07:29 PM	still, I'd rather be obsessed with a real person than some imaginary character. I'd rather people be obsessed with an imaginary character... you can't hurt a character sheet, and it doesn't need to get a restraining order if you try to. Group problems are group problems, most of the posts complaining about a GM or a player aren't really related to the game, it's only the game that brings those people together. They could be doing a LAN party or playing paintball, and they'd probably still be conflicting.
Son of Khoron 01-13-05, 10:00 PM	A warning to all: Do not take it TOO seriously… Getting away from reality is one thing, mixing the two realities quite another! A group I have been DMing for years has more or less split up. Why? While most of the players and me have always done it for pure enjoyment, one of the players has gotten more and more into it, (includes life role playing and pretty much everything else...) and a nice weekend ended in PERSONAL disputes which had very little to do with D&D... I read a few threads in this forum... this problem is not unique. DMs complaining about players’ ego trips, people spending more time to think about the morals of paladins than about their own affairs...the list goes on... I am truly sad to have experienced what TOO excessive role playing can do. Please forgive if this mail offends any truly dedicated players and DM (and I am sure there are loads of you here...) just keep the balance right and enjoy playing... Bringing the RPG into reality? Or...thinking everything is a RPG? Reminds me of that old Tom Hanks movie MAZES AND MONSTERS, good movie, bad for the reps of RPGs. Home life, work, sex life, whatever...to them reality is a drag that is unfulfilling and boring, RPG enters their life, something new, something they can act out their fantasies through...why escape it when the DM says WE ARE DONE FOR THE NIGHT? It becomes an obsession, a fix and almost like a psychoactive induced drug like state...its moments and people like these that RPGs are not proud of.
Ze_Mighty_Vegetable 01-14-05, 01:21 AM	, one of the players has gotten more and more into it, (includes life role playing and pretty much everything else...) and a nice weekend ended in PERSONAL disputes which had very little to do with D&D... Did the dispute start around D&D issues? Or just because you stayed togheter all weekend? 48 hours with the same people in the same space can lead to problems (sometime). Maybe you should do a pause in your gaming weekend? I don't counsel avoiding gaming weekends, for they are some of my best gaming memories. If the player takes the game too personnal, tell him. He's your friend (or at least hopfully a decent person), he should understand that it's a GAME. A friend of mine tended to think of himself as persecuted by the rest of the group (and at times, the whole world). He took everything that happened in the game way too personnal. I told him that A): it's a game and I don't want our friendship to suffer because of something happening to a fictional character. B): Bad things happen to the characters in EVERY story, movie or book. They don't mean it's the end of the adventure. The hero always manage to find something to make things work out in the end. He should do the same thing. It took some work, but he understood. If all else fails, don't game with him anymore. It's sad to lose a player that way, but if the choice is between risking to lose a friend over a game and not playing with said friend, well... I can lose a gaming buddy. I don't want to lose a friend.
aaron3579 01-14-05, 02:06 AM	As a person who started D&D in the ugly shadow of suicidal players in the news, I feel that people taking D&D too seriously are some of the biggest dangers to the game. Does anyone here remember the headlines I'm talking about? Something like, "Youths Fall Victim to Ritualistic Suicide, D&D Suspected Culprit." There were actually some high school kids that lived in the town where I grew up that were involved in one such headline, and as far as local politics was concerned, D&D was Lucifer incarnate. Has anyone ever read this book? http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0840730349/qid=1105685361/sr=1-11/ref=sr_1_11/102-8023018-5932130?v=glance&s=books In the table of contents, the chapter "Ghoulish Games?" That’s talking about D&D. I read it. Just terrible stuff, really. I blame people that can't separate D&D from reality for books like this one. I hope I haven't posted anything too racy, just trying to stay on topic really. I have really strong feelings on this issue, and I've given it alot of thought. Had to, considering that the mainstream attitude towards D&D that almost everyone in my community harbored was so negative. :(
brainsplitter 01-14-05, 03:17 AM	I have really strong feelings on this issue, and I've given it alot of thought. Had to, considering that the mainstream attitude towards D&D that almost everyone in my community harbored was so negative. :( same here, about 80% of the community is anti-Dungeons & Dragons, especially one of my players' parents, she overheard him talking about some violent stuff, and she pulled him out, luckily, i knew the parents and persuaded them to just play, or at least watch, a small amount of the game, POOF, problem fixed lol its just a general outlook on D&D, can't blame 'em though, with all the stuff that was going on at the time, sorta left a bad taste in all thier mouths, silly old supersticious people, D&D doesnt make people crazy, Crazy people make people crazy, not to mention that drow that lives next door ;)
moscher 01-14-05, 06:34 AM	sorry for late reply (posting from Germany...) some replies took the problem a bit too far... (my fault: mixing two realities does imply sth. too serious...) Son of Khoron, you bring it on: I think the problem is that everyone needs a little success here or there. Be it a good day at work, a new girl (boy) friend, or even a victorious paintball game... it's what most people define themselves with. these things, however, occur in real life, while success in role playing really doesn't. Ze_Mighty_Vegetable: obviously, we had breaks, be it eating together, a little frizbee game... the thing is that this person has over the years become quiter and quiter during the breaks but louder and somewhat realer during the gaming.... anyway, I spoke to some of the players and we'll probably make this dude DM, I enjoy both and he'll be the unequaled authority...
Razoreface 01-14-05, 06:50 AM	As a person who started D&D in the ugly shadow of suicidal players in the news, I feel that people taking D&D too seriously Are you a person who went to highschool in the last decade or so? If you are, do you feel people take highschool too seriously, because that leads to a whole lot more death. Something like, "Youths Fall Victim to Ritualistic Suicide, D&D Suspected Culprit." There were actually some high school kids that lived in the town where I grew up that were involved in one such headline And if you look into it, it was probably a falacy. Look up Bink Pulling. He was that stupid movie. Has anyone ever read this book? http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0840730349/qid=1105685361/sr=1-11/ref=sr_1_11/102-8023018-5932130?v=glance&s=books By the definition of the law, that book actually borders on a hate crime, but written under the guise of a christian book, it's left alone. Laws against that sort of thing were a lot less stringent back in the 80's, too. It's an extremely old book, it's entirely garbage, and has even been denounced on www.religioustolerance.org. Did you know, that in all real truth that one of the oldest anti-D&D guys, Jack Chick, actually was a satanist? :) If someone anti-D&D was a satanist... Another interesting thing to note is that those boys from Columbine, and old Bink Pulling were big on Hitler. A good self-proclaimed christian, born and raised catholic. (and cutely, Jack Chick's anti-D&D tract includes a nifty book burning!) I blame people that can't separate D&D from reality for books like this one. Try blaming ignorance, it's far more correct. There is more evidence that this kind of thing is always intentionally falsified or purely ignorance than there is evidence that gaming is unhealthy. http://www.rpg.net/sites/252/quellen/stackpole/pulling_report.html http://www.religioustolerance.org/d_a_d2.htm http://pc.gamespy.com/articles/539/539635p1.html Things like that are better for your brain. D&D as a scapegoat is a trend. In the early 80s it was blamed for suicide, in the late 80's it was murder, into the 90's it was MPD and other severe mental disorders that simply can't be brought on from basically any social activity. After that, it basically filtered off, because when it comes up, eventually someone looks at the claimed situation objectively, points out the truth, and people go on their way. The anti-D&D people don't like looking like idiots, so they've tended to keep their heads down. The anti-roleplaying BADD association has gone inactive. Moscher, you actually can succeed in roleplaying... because roleplaying is an activity that in your life, you do. Just like a job or a game of baseball, if you do well and have fun with it, you're succeeding. I, personally, tend to think that anti-RPG people border on mental instability. A radio show in 98 called Adventures in Odyssey included a bit from a doctor Dobson, who he felt that RPG players actually become the characters. They also tend to actually believe magic is real and that gamers can somehow manipulate magic, and talk to demons. They have medication for that. I'm on it, so I know.
aaron3579 01-14-05, 12:46 PM	Are you a person who went to highschool in the last decade or so? If you are, do you feel people take highschool too seriously, because that leads to a whole lot more death. I was born in 1983 in Louisiana. I graduated class of '01. Without a doubt in my mind, I can say that there are a host of other things that cause suicide besides D&D. But D&D gets dragged through the mud not because it is linked to a disproportionate number of suicides, (it isn't) but because it is easily isolated as alien, a counter-culture that is often misunderstood and attacked for being different. People are most afraid of the things of which they are ignorant, and are most likely to attack that which they fear. Try blaming ignorance, it's far more correct. There is more evidence that this kind of thing is always intentionally falsified or purely ignorance than there is evidence that gaming is unhealthy. I do blame ignorance. But do not discount the fact that it is possible for people that play D&D to fall victim to ignorance as well. Let me be absolutely clear, I'm not attacking D&D; I'm attacking the people that are too weak-minded to separate fantasy and reality (don't hate the game, hate the player). These players are few and far between, but they do exist. And they are dangerous, not because D&D is any more likely to cause suicide than high school, but because D&D is a viable scapegoat on which society can blame a great deal of its problems at the drop of a hat. It’s our responsibility to make sure that those hats never hit the floor. This should be (I feel) the first and foremost mission of any dungeon master, not only for the sake of the game, but to a greater extent, for the sake of those involved.
Tuneless Bard 01-14-05, 12:51 PM	:twitch: what? D&D is real man... my friend, the loremaster told me so...I have traveled a great deal, parntered only with my fists, for I am Gerald Windersleeve, master monk... Every week I meet with a group of worthy allies...Last week, Gorban the Barbarian Half-Orc consumed my entire container of dip in less than three rounds, then cast "Major Fart" on my face...the DC was too high, 25....I fell unconscious...Thankfully my beautuful enchantress wife was there to administer the extract from mountain dew...which acts an aweful lot like cure light wounds potion....i havent found the true ingredients to brew a true cure light wounds potion at the local alchemist shop.... After having recovered from my unconscious state, I grabbed a magic stone of d12edness and made a ranged attack roll against the rude Half-Orc...thankfully i caught him flat-footed, and happened to crit the poor bastard by sinking the stone into his cheek for 10 points of damage... Once hit, I could tell that he was beginning to enter his beserker rage...thankfully i made initiative and was out the dining room door before he was able to stand...
evilgenius 01-14-05, 01:13 PM	As a person who started D&D in the ugly shadow of suicidal players in the news, I feel that people taking D&D too seriously are some of the biggest dangers to the game. ... Aaron 3579, this isn't the first time I seem to I find myself in wholehearted agreement with you. These people are dangerous not only to the game's reputation, but also to other gamer's reputations and even to themselves and other gamers... If that made any sense. I play once a week for arround 5 -6 hours. No more. I know some dudes who take the game to far, play too often, and whatnot. I moved to a new town recently, and one of the things I did when I posted online looking for players was I ensured that none of these dudes I was meeting were "too" into it. Despite what I have said above, I am by no means pointing the finger at D&D. It's obsessive PEOPLE, and we live in an obsessive CULTURE. For every kid who's a little too "into" his character, there's ten thousand mindless twits who are a little too "into" television, or are too "into" whomever their most hated / loved celebrity is currently bedding. No, D&D isn't the cuplrit, it's obsession in general. Anyways, if you wanna laugh your pants off, check out my good ole ideological nemisis, Jack Chick. Razorface, I am surprised that you indicate he's a Satanist - what's your source of information on that? Younger gamers might not know him, so check out his "comics", they're actually quite entertaining (on an eyebrow raising level). Anyways, back on topic, game-obsessed dudes just fuel this kind of paranoia: We don't link to Jack Chick because it just upsets people and never leads to any good. Thanks Hmmm... Link doesn't work, Wizards must be blocking it to prevent lawsuit or something. L8er evilgenius
Razoreface 01-14-05, 10:33 PM	because it is easily isolated as alien, a counter-culture that is often misunderstood and attacked for being different. The odd thing is, while that's true, the opposite is also true... video games are incredibly popular and prevalent, but they're constantly blamed for all manner of crime. On the news last night, a theft of an extremely active car thief netted the guy just after he broke into an electronic store and he "had thousands of dollars worth of video game consoles in the stolen car, including Grand Theft Auto". I think it's more a matter of convenience than anything... because that guy didn't steal GTA because he's a car thief, he stole those because he can sell them. It’s our responsibility to make sure that those hats never hit the floor. This should be (I feel) the first and foremost mission of any dungeon master, not only for the sake of the game, but to a greater extent, for the sake of those involved. I might not try to tell people you're a dungeon master when trying to convince them that D&D isn't evil.. they might get confused and think you have a dungeon or something. I play once a week for arround 5 -6 hours. No more. I know some dudes who take the game to far, play too often, and whatnot. I moved to a new town recently, and one of the things I did when I posted online looking for players was I ensured that none of these dudes I was meeting were "too" into it. I know a lot of people who hover on chat programs hoping to jump into a pickup game, not because they're obsessed with a character (because they can't use the same character in all the games), but because they really don't have anything else in the way of a social life. :) Anyways, if you wanna laugh your pants off, check out my good ole ideological nemisis, Jack Chick. Razorface, I am surprised that you indicate he's a Satanist - what's your source of information on that? An article that's fairly old now, and I can never find it when I need it. I think it was actually written by Stackpole, but it might not be, which might explain why I can't find it. It generally details the life of Jack Chick back in the 70's when he first encountered D&D. He was apparently someone who was peripherally present when D&D writers were doing some kind of research. There are actually a lot of hardcore born-again people who call themselves christians who are actually former satanists or wiccans who were really big in the anti-RPG stuff. The stranger thing is, most satanists tend to be incredibly good people, and by large, don't worship the devil the way most god-oriented religions worship their god. It's more like being religiously agnostic than anything.
Ze_Mighty_Vegetable 01-15-05, 12:33 AM	Ze_Mighty_Vegetable: obviously, we had breaks, be it eating together, a little frizbee game... the thing is that this person has over the years become quiter and quiter during the breaks but louder and somewhat realer during the gaming.... . By breaks, I meant breaks from each others, not break for the game. You'd have to be mighty addicted to forgo food for a 48 hour game. :D By what you're telling me, this guy got a problem. When someone's withdrawing while taking rpgs too seriously, he could be very down and looking to his character as his ideal self (you know, the "I have no life so my PC's life is my surrogate life" syndrome. Talk to him.
aaron3579 01-15-05, 08:44 PM	The odd thing is, while that's true, the opposite is also true... video games are incredibly popular and prevalent, but they're constantly blamed for all manner of crime. On the news last night, a theft of an extremely active car thief netted the guy just after he broke into an electronic store and he "had thousands of dollars worth of video game consoles in the stolen car, including Grand Theft Auto". I think it's more a matter of convenience than anything... because that guy didn't steal GTA because he's a car thief, he stole those because he can sell them. I don't really see your point; are you suggesting a relationship between these two scapegoats? What is the relevance of such a relationship, if any exists, to our discussion? I might not try to tell people you're a dungeon master when trying to convince them that D&D isn't evil.. they might get confused and think you have a dungeon or something. I am afraid that you've misunderstood me. When I say that it should be the mission of every DM, I mean in relation to his or her own players. I am not suggesting that we should go on a crusade to rid the world of D&D bashers, I'm saying that we should deprive society at large of ammunition with which to attack our art; it is our job to ensure that our players can clearly distinguish between fantasy and reality.
sandgriffin 01-15-05, 09:33 PM	aaron3579: thank goodness others are saying what I'v been saying for YEARS, that people need to establish a strong mental barrior between fantisy and reality. Ever sense iv seen the media blaming video games, certain books, and D&D for murders, suicides, and so on, I've told every basher I can find, that these people are a tiny minority in a huge community, that the black sheep are few and far between, that almost every other person in that community knows the diffirence between real life and a game, and does not let the one interfear with the other. I'v been gaming for as long as I can remember, and I havent knifed or shot, a single person ever, something tells me anyone who reads this can say the same or somthing close to it. People throw blame around without thought, parents shout from the rooftops that thier childrens minds are being warped by bad music, violent videogames, and various tabletop games, but its never their bad parenting or thier childs lack of disipline, oh no, never that!
Edymnion 01-15-05, 09:49 PM	Hmmm... Link doesn't work, Wizards must be blocking it to prevent lawsuit or something. If you're interested, go to your browser and copy in the above URL, but replace the ten asterisks with the following:Wait, you found out that the boards do not allow you to link to his stuff, so you intentionally bypassed the censor so you could direct someone to a piece of hate speech? There is a REASON the URL was blocked. Like I said, anything he's ever done basically is considered Hate Speech by the CoC, and linking to it is a punishable offence. Discussing that tract alone is enough to get threads locked and warnings sent out. Seriously, you might want to edit that back out before the WizO's see it. JC ALWAYS leads to flames and religion bashing, and they're so sick of it they banned his website from even being linked to. Take the hint...
aaron3579 01-16-05, 02:43 PM	Wait, you found out that the boards do not allow you to link to his stuff, so you intentionally bypassed the censor so you could direct someone to a piece of hate speech? Take the hint... Can we please not resort to publicly attacking one another? Such warnings are far more prudent (and effective) when voiced as personal messages.
Razoreface 01-16-05, 05:53 PM	I don't really see your point; are you suggesting a relationship between these two scapegoats? What is the relevance of such a relationship, if any exists, to our discussion? Just what sandgriffin said; that people will look for any flimsy excuse to blame so that they don't have to blame any actual authority figures in the life of the kid who goes crazy. If someone is really that kind of screwed up, there are visible signs, and anyone who spends time with that person can see it. The first stop is of course the parents, but it does go well beyond that. But when something goes bad, nobody wants to ask the hard questions, and look for the closest possible excuse. Marilyn Manson did not make anyone kill people. it is our job to ensure that our players can clearly distinguish between fantasy and reality. I think it's more our job as people to ensure that people can distinguish between reality and fantasy. My mother went through a long phase where she believed the cause of all my problems were the result of my owning a computer, nevermind that I didn't own a computer or a game console until I was fourteen, and the first time she put me in therapy I was twelve. :) D&D bashers often have a bit of trouble with that distinction, but a lot of people do, to a lesser degree. It might be nicer to say that some people are "easily confused" about that particular line, though it's actually fairly proven that people who regularly play roleplaying games have less of a problem with that. I'v been gaming for as long as I can remember, and I havent knifed or shot, a single person ever, something tells me anyone who reads this can say the same or somthing close to it. Almost! I can say it for all but three of the probably sixty or seventy gamers around the world that I know, though the other three were completely unrelated to roleplaying. People throw blame around without thought, parents shout from the rooftops that thier childrens minds are being warped by bad music, violent videogames, and various tabletop games, but its never their bad parenting or thier childs lack of disipline, oh no, never that! What I like, is what I've heard on talk radio a few times, and on the news once or twice; Parents whining and complaining that all these violent incidents "involving video games" wouldn't happen if those games had warnings on the cover. News flash. Guess some parents haven't ever picked up Grand Theft Auto and even so much as looked at the cover. Video games, and even explicit music, has had warnings like that for a decade. It's time for parents to pick it up and be parents again. Edymnion was also doing something important, he was pointing out why you can't link to that particular website. WotC has a fair number of URL's it won't allow because those websites contain content that violate the CoC, so linking them is also a violation, even talking about that guy really is tenuous ground, most threads I've seen that do get locked, so my bringing him up was a pretty fair risk on my part.
Ze_Mighty_Vegetable 01-16-05, 06:20 PM	The religious nuts are not that bad. Before they came, we gamers were thought of as nerds and geeks. now, we're demon-worshiping spawns of the anti-christ. Sure as hell get more street cred.
aaron3579 01-16-05, 06:36 PM	I think it's more our job as people to ensure that people can distinguish between reality and fantasy. My mother went through a long phase where she believed the cause of all my problems were the result of my owning a computer, nevermind that I didn't own a computer or a game console until I was fourteen, and the first time she put me in therapy I was twelve. :) D&D bashers often have a bit of trouble with that distinction, but a lot of people do, to a lesser degree. It might be nicer to say that some people are "easily confused" about that particular line, though it's actually fairly proven that people who regularly play roleplaying games have less of a problem with that. So, would you be willing to concede that being 'too into' D&D can be a dangerous problem? I see where you are coming from, I think: You are saying that the best way to remedy the problem is to educate people about what is and what isn't harmful to our society, right? If this is an accurate manner in which to describe your position, then... I'm reaching for you, but my arm is not quite long enough. I just don't harbor the same faith in society that you evidently do. I don't think that anyone will, in the foreseeable future, be able to convince enough of the people that really matter (white Anglo-Saxon protestants WASPs) that D&D isn't the devil (lets be honest, they made the rules in 1776, and they still do today). The best that we can hope for is to mute them with an absence of poster children to rally behind. :( Of course, educating people never hurt, either. Please don’t anyone take this the wrong way, we’re speaking in general, not specific terms here. Of course I know that minorities in American Society are represented today more than ever, but we still have a long way to go. We've come far, but we're not there yet. I don't think that anyone would dispute this.
Razoreface 01-16-05, 06:49 PM	So, would you be willing to concede that being 'to into' D&D can be a dangerous problem? You seem to be missing it.. when I say it's less of a problem for people who play roleplaying games, I mean people who roleplay have a tendency to have a lower than average rate of violence and suicide. Same actually goes for Goths. It stems from the fact that they enjoy social and intellectual hobbies, that they tend to feel less isolated, which causes a slight lesser tendency to negative behavior. You are saying that the best way to remedy the problem is to educate people about what is and what isn't harmful to our society, right? I'm more into punishing stupidity than trying to educate people. It's like zapping a rat in a maze for going the wrong way. Eventually they stop trying to go that way. I just don't harbor the same faith in society that you evidently do. I actually have no faith at all in society. Not positive faith anyway, what people tend to equate with "having faith." I have faith, that is, without significant evidence I believe it will happen that society, given the chance, will screw something up in the third worst way possible. Humans simply have an uncanny luck that lets them somehow routinely avoid the worst possible outcomes. I don't think anyone will ever be able to convince enough of the people that really matter (white Anglo-Saxon protestants WASPs) that D&D isn't the devil (lets be honest, they made the rules in 1776, and they still do today). ... I'm only going after that second part. Anti-RPGism is basically dead.. it fell in the face of far more popular "evil" creations; video games and the internet. The best that we can hope for is to mute them with an absence of poster children to rally behind. :( The only way to remove a stupid yet loud person's ability to find a false idol to rally behind is to remove their source of potential idols. That'd mean getting rid of anything people like that would find offensive, or stopping any kind of bad crap from happening around them. Nobody wants to fit into what a middle aged conservative mother would find inoffensive, and you definitely can't stop bad things from happening. Humans are just way too good at creating bad things.
aaron3579 01-16-05, 07:07 PM	You seem to be missing it.. when I say it's less of a problem for people who play roleplaying games, I mean people who roleplay have a tendency to have a lower than average rate of violence and suicide. Same actually goes for Goths. It stems from the fact that they enjoy social and intellectual hobbies, that they tend to feel less isolated, which causes a slight lesser tendency to negative behavior. On this point, we can agree I'm more into punishing stupidity than trying to educate people. It's like zapping a rat in a maze for going the wrong way. If the purpose of this analogy is to equate a rat in a maze with WASPs, and role-players with the guys in the white lab-coats, then I think you may have the balance of power inverted. I'd be nice, though. ;) ... I'm only going after that second part. Anti-RPGism is basically dead.. it fell in the face of far more popular "evil" creations; video games and the internet. What state do you live in? The political climate must be very different there. The only way to remove a stupid yet loud person's ability to find a false idol to rally behind is to remove their source of potential idols. That'd mean getting rid of anything people like that would find offensive, or stopping any kind of bad crap from happening around them. Nobody wants to fit into what a middle aged conservative mother would find inoffensive, and you definitely can't stop bad things from happening. Humans are just way too good at creating bad things. I don't think that I can agree with a false idol being equated with a poster-child. There are a few similarities, but there are also some fundamental differences that are substantial enough to cause this line of logic to disintegrate.
Shadow DM 01-17-05, 01:20 AM	Anything in large doses is a problem... Being obscessed with anything is a problem... A knife is meant to cook and to be used as a tool...not to kill people...it's not the knife that kills it is the person swinging it... It's everyone's responsibility to guage their own involvement in a game, you dont have to become obscessed. Usually if someone is suicidal the problem goes much deeper than D&D. People will always ***** about things they don't understand. People can get as involved in D&D as much or as little as they want as long as it does not lead to self-destrutive behavior or destructive behavior towards others. People often blame what they don't understand for all their problems. But censoring movies, video games, role-playing games, and other such forms of entertainment won't help. Murder was around long before D&D was around, and people had wars and committed suicide long before video games, tv, or movies.
lonesoldier 07-22-05, 05:00 PM	A man goes home and kills his family. That sure as Baator is going to be on the news tonight. Millions of men go home tonight and have a normal day. I doubt that that is going to get even an article on page across from the used car ads in the newspaper.
Kuronue 07-22-05, 05:36 PM	I'm sure you've all seen this but... http://***************/reading/tracts/0046/0046_01.asp *giggles manically*
Farland 07-22-05, 05:50 PM	Actually you're right-- but everyone has his or her own limit, and no one can set it for him. What you consider to be "getting too into it" might be barely scratching the surface for me. So be your own judge.
Waldorf 07-22-05, 06:04 PM	A warning to all: Do not take it TOO seriously… Getting away from reality is one thing, mixing the two realities quite another! A group I have been DMing for years has more or less split up. Why? While most of the players and me have always done it for pure enjoyment, one of the players has gotten more and more into it, (includes life role playing and pretty much everything else...) and a nice weekend ended in PERSONAL disputes which had very little to do with D&D... I read a few threads in this forum... this problem is not unique. DMs complaining about players’ ego trips, people spending more time to think about the morals of paladins than about their own affairs...the list goes on... I am truly sad to have experienced what TOO excessive role playing can do. Please forgive if this mail offends any truly dedicated players and DM (and I am sure there are loads of you here...) just keep the balance right and enjoy playing... Face it, a number of people who play D&D have little to no social skills and have very few outlets for interaction other than this game. I have seen countless misanthropic, maladjusted malcontents who whine and complain and fight over this game because they have nothing else in their lives but D&D. To them, D&D is about as real as it gets, and it is real, but only to them. That's why I boot these people when they start taking things too seriously. I don't need such losers in my life. Yes, I said 'losers,' because that's what they are. Many of them will never marry, never know the joy of a family, never know what it means to have real friends because, at some point in their lives, they turned inward when they should have looked to those around them. They opted for a false reality instead of recognizing it as just a light-hearted pursuit. I play this game as a past-time, nothing else. Boot these people from your games, lest it come back to haunt you.
allenchan 07-22-05, 06:07 PM	Wow. Another one of these threads. Again. :rolleyes: Some people have issues, Some people fight. Some people are idiots. in no way does it connect to dnd. If you want to read all the point counter-points I'd suggest the wikipedia entry on dnd. ps: I do believe chick tracks are against the coc.
lonesoldier 07-22-05, 06:38 PM	*cough*They are, they are hate literature, or something. Linking to them is illegal. I think*cough*