A worried DM: Player dosent want his char to die [Archive] - Wizards Community

A worried DM: Player dosent want his char to die [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Fantastic_Mr_Fox
11-30-07, 04:19 PM So one player I have is very attached to his character, he has mentioned in passing several times how he would feel if his char were to die, he has even said, though not directly to me that should his char die his identical twin brother will suddenly arrive and join the party. I don't think he would be happy unless his char died in the course of some epic level, world ending cataclysm, or in combat with a Daemon Lord or some such.

However out of the group he is the only one who thinks this way. Everyone loves their chars but they seem to accept that they may die, and they know there are worlds of other races/classes/builds/personalities they can play. In fact I know they would not be happy if they thought there was never any real peril during their adventures.

As new players overall I feel as though we are now reaching the point where I as DM can introduce more difficult and perilous situations. I have fudged some rolls and played some enemies in a certain way in the past, because we are all still in the process of learning, but I feel that time is about to pass. How can I broach this subject with this player and how can I help him change his mind?
JuniperTree
11-30-07, 04:44 PM Whenever I have new players, I always make sure I explain that the first, second, even third character you play will probably die early on. That's part of learning to play. Therefore I encourage them to play characters they think are fun and cool but not ones they will be upset about if they die.
You could point this out to eveyone and give this player the option of making up a new character for a little while, until he is better at the game.
But really, he needs to understand that this is a game and characters die sometimes. Period.
Worst comes to worst, you might need to remove that charry before he gets more attached. You do not have to kill him off, you could turn him to stone or have him be kidnapped or something and he doesn't get back to the party until the newbie has more experince.
Fantastic_Mr_Fox
11-30-07, 04:53 PM Thats a good idea but it won't work. I didn't realize he felt this way until now, the party just reached level 5 and have been playing for weeks. He would not want to roll a new one. Its not that he is worried that his char will die because we are new to the game, he just does not want him to die full stop. He wants to play this particular char to a very high level and like I said I can only see him happy with his death in a very epic encounter.

I suppose I could suggest this to him and see how he takes to the idea.
E. Ravenwood
11-30-07, 05:01 PM Well, I can only say that if he loves his character, then that is awesome, but you should tell him that it is his responsibilty to keep his character alive. Don't make stupid rash decisions in game, obtain a steady flow of healing spells of potions, instruct other party memeber that in the event of your death that you would like to be resurrected. He will need to spend a lot of money on all of these things in game, but if he is truly tied to his character, that he will do what he has to. If he walks the fine line, there is no reason why he should ever have to lose his character...

...on the other hand, in the event of his death, I have also DM'd PC's who had a close tie to their character and immediatelty made a the same character with a different name right on the spot. I have also done this when the assassin I was playing died at the hand of his own party member.

One thing I have discovered that keeps PC's from growing so attached to their PC's that they will never play a different character is to keep a steady flow of ideas for diverse characters afloat throughout the group. If they get an idea of all the different classes, races, prestige classes, etc. there is, they may think twice once their PC dies...

...as a word of warning, this can backfire on you. In some cases, some PC's want to play a new character so bad, they'll try to kill their current characters off as quickly as possible.
Fantastic_Mr_Fox
11-30-07, 05:16 PM Thanks everyone, I will just have to talk with him and explain that I will not be (under normal circumstances) fudging rolls to keep his or any other characters alive, that if they want to stay alive in a very dangerous situation (like the ones they will soon be facing in my campaign) they had better be careful and play well.
kelvinaw273
11-30-07, 05:22 PM If your character is indestructible, playing isn't much fun.

On the other hand we all get attached to characters. It happens. My advice is to be level with him and explain that twin brothers are a bit cliched.

On the other hand, the DMs job is in some ways to keep the characters alive while convincing the players he is out to get them ...
Jarsallen
11-30-07, 05:47 PM Because someone has to do it...

wow, you can't link to chick.com off this website...weird.

Well, you know which chick tract I'm referring to. The one with the text "No Marcie! You didn't have to do it!"
Dragonsblood
11-30-07, 06:01 PM Is raise dead not allowed in your game? Death is rarely permanent in DnD once you get past level 5 or so.
AKA_Bait
11-30-07, 06:29 PM I would be careful here. Take some time to gauge your player and just how attached they are to the character. Players can get attached to a character is ways and to levels that are psychologically unhealty. Make sure your player isn't one of those folks. If he is, ignore the advice in the following paragraph and attempt to convince him to switch characters.

Kill his character in the next session. Outright. Some save or die effect. Have the option in there for him to be raised or rezzed. Do not allow him to just bring in a clone. One of the things as a player, especially a new player, that he needs to come to terms with is a) characters die, b) he is not the DM.
Kiioro
11-30-07, 06:47 PM Since D&D isn't like a videogame where you can finish it and then everything's all right (or fscked up, but you did what you could and had endless retries), he must know that his character can die.

He's an adventurer. That means taking risks. If every adventurer survived, 60% of the NPCs would be adventurers and not normal commoners. The adventurers gain wondrous items, cool weapons and armors because they have a job that implies risking their lives. It sounds harsh, but adventuring without taking risks is... well, not adventuring. Wizards and artificers make strange stuff in their labs and are way more safe than out there blasting yuan-ti, but first they had to risk their lives to get what they have now.

And having a twin character is actually worse, because he would have to do so without metaplaying. He wouldn't know the other characters, nor what happened in the past, he wouldn't have the same bonds because he didn't save X's life like his "twin" had. The party, if roleplaying correctly, would be unnerved like hell when they see an exact replica of their dead comrade joining them, a guy they saw die and wasn't resurrected. They might even think he's an undead sent to them to kill the party.

I mean, if I saw Fighty McFighter get chopped into bite-sized chunks and our cleric wasn't powerful enough to get him back, I doubt his god said "Oh, Fighty, I'll send you back because you're so cool." If I saw a replica or his blond-haired version come to join the party, right after his death, I'd think a necromancer or an evil guy who we defeated restored his life and sent him to hunt us.

If he wants a character that is very unlikely to die, have him play a high class commoner in a safe city where nothing happens, ever. Hopefully, he'll understand.
Toran_A_Sunder
11-30-07, 06:48 PM Because someone has to do it...

wow, you can't link to chick.com off this website...weird.

Well, you know which chick tract I'm referring to. The one with the text "No Marcie! You didn't have to do it!"

Thats because referring to him or his tracts is against CoC. I suggest reading it so you inderstand the what and the why ;)

RE: OP - explain to him hat its a game, its not the end of the world if the character dies. Dont go out of your way to kill him, but dont fudge the rolls either or the other players may think you're playing favs. no one ever wants their loved chracters to die. but its a part of the game. he needs to get over it, and not follow up with some clone.

If he dies and brings up a clone to replace him with, veto it. Thou art the DM. Use thine power!
IAmTheScum
11-30-07, 09:01 PM It's a doppleganger! Kill it!
kuonji
12-01-07, 02:38 AM A friend of mine once said "Death in DnD is alot like you or I getting stitches." There are magics out there to bring characters back, sure you might end up a level behind for a little while, but the xp system is designed to balance this out and allow someone who falls behind to catch back up in level. So like getting stitches, it sucks for a little while, but eventually you get better and get over it.

Now if you don't allow raise dead type magics, that's a different story.
Etarnon
12-01-07, 06:44 AM Tell him, "Everyone dies. It's a character in a story. If you don't want him to die, you want him to be safe, he'll have to retire, because adventuring is dangerous."

My opinion: He's got to take the danger with the loot or your game is broken.
If the guy knows he has script immunity, the game, and adventure loses it's teeth, and might as well be a fairy tale "Happily ever after."

If there is no risk of death, there is no drama.

If he's saying that his identical twin brother /cousin, etc will "Arrive, identically", then what you'll have to do is have the player generate a family tree, with all the names, stats, etc of different characters.

Have a scenario where some of those people get killed off, and he's got to risk his character's life to save them. If he doesn't he's disowned or something.

I know all about the idea that characters are meant to be played, and not to kill them off willy nilly. But there has to be a challenge or it's just flat.

Challenge that PC, to the point of death.

And don't allow an Identical carbon copy. If the PC is gone, he is. It's your game, not his. Don't allow him to guilt / bully you with his "Identical character" crap.

It's undermining you as a DM, fairly ruling a dead PC, due to combat / whatever.

"No, he is right here identical." [No, he';s not dead, DM, I say so, he's my PC and I don't respect your rulings when they don't go my way.]

Total BS. If he doesn't change his tune consider ejecting the player, because he's gonna be a whiner if he isn't already.
Tiruvel
12-01-07, 07:39 AM Just thought I'd give my two electrum pieces. :)

Although it may seem that he will freak out if his character is killed off, there's a good chance he'll be ok with it once he gets over the initial shock. ("I-LOST-MY-PC! NOOOO")
DwarvenArcher
12-01-07, 09:13 AM should his char die his identical twin brother will suddenly arrive and join the party.

Have the twin show up in the next game. And kill him. :D

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Fantastic_Mr_Fox 11-30-07, 04:19 PM	So one player I have is very attached to his character, he has mentioned in passing several times how he would feel if his char were to die, he has even said, though not directly to me that should his char die his identical twin brother will suddenly arrive and join the party. I don't think he would be happy unless his char died in the course of some epic level, world ending cataclysm, or in combat with a Daemon Lord or some such. However out of the group he is the only one who thinks this way. Everyone loves their chars but they seem to accept that they may die, and they know there are worlds of other races/classes/builds/personalities they can play. In fact I know they would not be happy if they thought there was never any real peril during their adventures. As new players overall I feel as though we are now reaching the point where I as DM can introduce more difficult and perilous situations. I have fudged some rolls and played some enemies in a certain way in the past, because we are all still in the process of learning, but I feel that time is about to pass. How can I broach this subject with this player and how can I help him change his mind?
JuniperTree 11-30-07, 04:44 PM	Whenever I have new players, I always make sure I explain that the first, second, even third character you play will probably die early on. That's part of learning to play. Therefore I encourage them to play characters they think are fun and cool but not ones they will be upset about if they die. You could point this out to eveyone and give this player the option of making up a new character for a little while, until he is better at the game. But really, he needs to understand that this is a game and characters die sometimes. Period. Worst comes to worst, you might need to remove that charry before he gets more attached. You do not have to kill him off, you could turn him to stone or have him be kidnapped or something and he doesn't get back to the party until the newbie has more experince.
Fantastic_Mr_Fox 11-30-07, 04:53 PM	Thats a good idea but it won't work. I didn't realize he felt this way until now, the party just reached level 5 and have been playing for weeks. He would not want to roll a new one. Its not that he is worried that his char will die because we are new to the game, he just does not want him to die full stop. He wants to play this particular char to a very high level and like I said I can only see him happy with his death in a very epic encounter. I suppose I could suggest this to him and see how he takes to the idea.
E. Ravenwood 11-30-07, 05:01 PM	Well, I can only say that if he loves his character, then that is awesome, but you should tell him that it is his responsibilty to keep his character alive. Don't make stupid rash decisions in game, obtain a steady flow of healing spells of potions, instruct other party memeber that in the event of your death that you would like to be resurrected. He will need to spend a lot of money on all of these things in game, but if he is truly tied to his character, that he will do what he has to. If he walks the fine line, there is no reason why he should ever have to lose his character... ...on the other hand, in the event of his death, I have also DM'd PC's who had a close tie to their character and immediatelty made a the same character with a different name right on the spot. I have also done this when the assassin I was playing died at the hand of his own party member. One thing I have discovered that keeps PC's from growing so attached to their PC's that they will never play a different character is to keep a steady flow of ideas for diverse characters afloat throughout the group. If they get an idea of all the different classes, races, prestige classes, etc. there is, they may think twice once their PC dies... ...as a word of warning, this can backfire on you. In some cases, some PC's want to play a new character so bad, they'll try to kill their current characters off as quickly as possible.
Fantastic_Mr_Fox 11-30-07, 05:16 PM	Thanks everyone, I will just have to talk with him and explain that I will not be (under normal circumstances) fudging rolls to keep his or any other characters alive, that if they want to stay alive in a very dangerous situation (like the ones they will soon be facing in my campaign) they had better be careful and play well.
kelvinaw273 11-30-07, 05:22 PM	If your character is indestructible, playing isn't much fun. On the other hand we all get attached to characters. It happens. My advice is to be level with him and explain that twin brothers are a bit cliched. On the other hand, the DMs job is in some ways to keep the characters alive while convincing the players he is out to get them ...
Jarsallen 11-30-07, 05:47 PM	Because someone has to do it... wow, you can't link to chick.com off this website...weird. Well, you know which chick tract I'm referring to. The one with the text "No Marcie! You didn't have to do it!"
Dragonsblood 11-30-07, 06:01 PM	Is raise dead not allowed in your game? Death is rarely permanent in DnD once you get past level 5 or so.
AKA_Bait 11-30-07, 06:29 PM	I would be careful here. Take some time to gauge your player and just how attached they are to the character. Players can get attached to a character is ways and to levels that are psychologically unhealty. Make sure your player isn't one of those folks. If he is, ignore the advice in the following paragraph and attempt to convince him to switch characters. Kill his character in the next session. Outright. Some save or die effect. Have the option in there for him to be raised or rezzed. Do not allow him to just bring in a clone. One of the things as a player, especially a new player, that he needs to come to terms with is a) characters die, b) he is not the DM.
Kiioro 11-30-07, 06:47 PM	Since D&D isn't like a videogame where you can finish it and then everything's all right (or fscked up, but you did what you could and had endless retries), he must know that his character can die. He's an adventurer. That means taking risks. If every adventurer survived, 60% of the NPCs would be adventurers and not normal commoners. The adventurers gain wondrous items, cool weapons and armors because they have a job that implies risking their lives. It sounds harsh, but adventuring without taking risks is... well, not adventuring. Wizards and artificers make strange stuff in their labs and are way more safe than out there blasting yuan-ti, but first they had to risk their lives to get what they have now. And having a twin character is actually worse, because he would have to do so without metaplaying. He wouldn't know the other characters, nor what happened in the past, he wouldn't have the same bonds because he didn't save X's life like his "twin" had. The party, if roleplaying correctly, would be unnerved like hell when they see an exact replica of their dead comrade joining them, a guy they saw die and wasn't resurrected. They might even think he's an undead sent to them to kill the party. I mean, if I saw Fighty McFighter get chopped into bite-sized chunks and our cleric wasn't powerful enough to get him back, I doubt his god said "Oh, Fighty, I'll send you back because you're so cool." If I saw a replica or his blond-haired version come to join the party, right after his death, I'd think a necromancer or an evil guy who we defeated restored his life and sent him to hunt us. If he wants a character that is very unlikely to die, have him play a high class commoner in a safe city where nothing happens, ever. Hopefully, he'll understand.
Toran_A_Sunder 11-30-07, 06:48 PM	Because someone has to do it... wow, you can't link to chick.com off this website...weird. Well, you know which chick tract I'm referring to. The one with the text "No Marcie! You didn't have to do it!" Thats because referring to him or his tracts is against CoC. I suggest reading it so you inderstand the what and the why ;) RE: OP - explain to him hat its a game, its not the end of the world if the character dies. Dont go out of your way to kill him, but dont fudge the rolls either or the other players may think you're playing favs. no one ever wants their loved chracters to die. but its a part of the game. he needs to get over it, and not follow up with some clone. If he dies and brings up a clone to replace him with, veto it. Thou art the DM. Use thine power!
IAmTheScum 11-30-07, 09:01 PM	It's a doppleganger! Kill it!
kuonji 12-01-07, 02:38 AM	A friend of mine once said "Death in DnD is alot like you or I getting stitches." There are magics out there to bring characters back, sure you might end up a level behind for a little while, but the xp system is designed to balance this out and allow someone who falls behind to catch back up in level. So like getting stitches, it sucks for a little while, but eventually you get better and get over it. Now if you don't allow raise dead type magics, that's a different story.
Etarnon 12-01-07, 06:44 AM	Tell him, "Everyone dies. It's a character in a story. If you don't want him to die, you want him to be safe, he'll have to retire, because adventuring is dangerous." My opinion: He's got to take the danger with the loot or your game is broken. If the guy knows he has script immunity, the game, and adventure loses it's teeth, and might as well be a fairy tale "Happily ever after." If there is no risk of death, there is no drama. If he's saying that his identical twin brother /cousin, etc will "Arrive, identically", then what you'll have to do is have the player generate a family tree, with all the names, stats, etc of different characters. Have a scenario where some of those people get killed off, and he's got to risk his character's life to save them. If he doesn't he's disowned or something. I know all about the idea that characters are meant to be played, and not to kill them off willy nilly. But there has to be a challenge or it's just flat. Challenge that PC, to the point of death. And don't allow an Identical carbon copy. If the PC is gone, he is. It's your game, not his. Don't allow him to guilt / bully you with his "Identical character" crap. It's undermining you as a DM, fairly ruling a dead PC, due to combat / whatever. "No, he is right here identical." [No, he';s not dead, DM, I say so, he's my PC and I don't respect your rulings when they don't go my way.] Total BS. If he doesn't change his tune consider ejecting the player, because he's gonna be a whiner if he isn't already.
Tiruvel 12-01-07, 07:39 AM	Just thought I'd give my two electrum pieces. :) Although it may seem that he will freak out if his character is killed off, there's a good chance he'll be ok with it once he gets over the initial shock. ("I-LOST-MY-PC! NOOOO")
DwarvenArcher 12-01-07, 09:13 AM	should his char die his identical twin brother will suddenly arrive and join the party. Have the twin show up in the next game. And kill him. :D