A worthy opponent [Archive] - Wizards Community

A worthy opponent [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
gastropod
06-29-05, 05:34 PM Hi All,

I was looking at the Invisible Blade PrC, and one of the requirements is the character must defeat a worthy opponent in single combat using daggers as your only weapons.

My question is, what qualifies as a worthy opponent? My first inclination is to say an opponent with a CR the same as your level. However, it looks like some classes would have quite an advantage defeating some monsters over others. So just because the CR matches, would this not make it a worthy opponent?

The illustration of the Invisible Blade shows the person fighting a minotaur (I assume for qualification to the class), but for a person at 4 level to defeat a minotaur all by them self seems like a near impossible task, as opposed to an Otyugh that seems like the fight would be easy and the possible sickness contracted from the creature after the fact is what bumps this creatures CR up.

What are your opinions?

Thanks
Colmarr
06-29-05, 05:58 PM Fighting an opponent with CR equal to your level is roughly equivalent to a 4 person party fighting a creature with a CR 4 higher than the party level. ie. It offers a 50/50 chance of losing.

That certainly qualifies as worthy, but I don't think it should be the threshhold for it. "CR equal to character level -1" seems more appropriate.
kaldrin
06-29-05, 05:59 PM I don't know... if I were an invisible blade and snobby I would probably say only another invisible blade would be worthy.

But any character with higher ECL than your own would probably be good enough for anyone else.
Dark_Tide
06-29-05, 06:31 PM Daggers, eh? Level 1 rogue/level 2 fighter might work for a 4th level character. Or maybe a monk/barbarian? I don't know, but a human or drow would be a good opponent... don't limit yourself to monsters.
MasterOfPsychic
06-29-05, 06:39 PM Fighting an opponent with CR equal to your level is roughly equivalent to a 4 person party fighting a creature with a CR 4 higher than the party level. ie. It offers a 50/50 chance of losing

NO!!!! A 4 person party in level 4 should be able to fight 4 CR 4 monsters as a equal opponent... I.E. equal chances of winning... (at least acording to theory)

So a creature of equal CR/Level would be good
Ekranoplan
06-29-05, 06:55 PM Susposedly, a one CR4 encounter should use up 1/4 of the resources of a level 4 group ( i think). So one level 4 person fighting a CR 4 encounter (in this case probably an NPC with 4 class levels) stands a chance of winning.

As for the illustration, I think its just a higher level invisible blade doing some fighting involving a local dispute over the sea turtle harvest.
celtredleg
06-29-05, 08:49 PM Definatly dont forget a cr equal charecter class opponenet.
Vaelan
06-29-05, 09:00 PM NO!!!! A 4 person party in level 4 should be able to fight 4 CR 4 monsters as a equal opponent... I.E. equal chances of winning... (at least acording to theory)

So a creature of equal CR/Level would be good

Nothing you said has refuted the point you were responding to.

4 CR 4 monsters is a CR 8 encounter. 8 = 4+4, and thus you have really done nothing but restated his point.

I would say the opponent's ECL has to be within 1 of the character's.
gastropod
06-29-05, 09:35 PM I have one more question regarding this requirement:

If all requirements are met, the minimum level a character would have to be to take a level of Invisible Blade is at 6th level. In this case is there a minimum level you would say the single combat should be taken at.

Like 1st level encounters are just as much about luck as skill, and when you start increasing levels the diversity of the challenges changes as well. So would you limit this test to a minimum level because of this fact, or do you think it is necessary?

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
gastropod 06-29-05, 05:34 PM	Hi All, I was looking at the Invisible Blade PrC, and one of the requirements is the character must defeat a worthy opponent in single combat using daggers as your only weapons. My question is, what qualifies as a worthy opponent? My first inclination is to say an opponent with a CR the same as your level. However, it looks like some classes would have quite an advantage defeating some monsters over others. So just because the CR matches, would this not make it a worthy opponent? The illustration of the Invisible Blade shows the person fighting a minotaur (I assume for qualification to the class), but for a person at 4 level to defeat a minotaur all by them self seems like a near impossible task, as opposed to an Otyugh that seems like the fight would be easy and the possible sickness contracted from the creature after the fact is what bumps this creatures CR up. What are your opinions? Thanks
Colmarr 06-29-05, 05:58 PM	Fighting an opponent with CR equal to your level is roughly equivalent to a 4 person party fighting a creature with a CR 4 higher than the party level. ie. It offers a 50/50 chance of losing. That certainly qualifies as worthy, but I don't think it should be the threshhold for it. "CR equal to character level -1" seems more appropriate.
kaldrin 06-29-05, 05:59 PM	I don't know... if I were an invisible blade and snobby I would probably say only another invisible blade would be worthy. But any character with higher ECL than your own would probably be good enough for anyone else.
Dark_Tide 06-29-05, 06:31 PM	Daggers, eh? Level 1 rogue/level 2 fighter might work for a 4th level character. Or maybe a monk/barbarian? I don't know, but a human or drow would be a good opponent... don't limit yourself to monsters.
MasterOfPsychic 06-29-05, 06:39 PM	Fighting an opponent with CR equal to your level is roughly equivalent to a 4 person party fighting a creature with a CR 4 higher than the party level. ie. It offers a 50/50 chance of losing NO!!!! A 4 person party in level 4 should be able to fight 4 CR 4 monsters as a equal opponent... I.E. equal chances of winning... (at least acording to theory) So a creature of equal CR/Level would be good
Ekranoplan 06-29-05, 06:55 PM	Susposedly, a one CR4 encounter should use up 1/4 of the resources of a level 4 group ( i think). So one level 4 person fighting a CR 4 encounter (in this case probably an NPC with 4 class levels) stands a chance of winning. As for the illustration, I think its just a higher level invisible blade doing some fighting involving a local dispute over the sea turtle harvest.
celtredleg 06-29-05, 08:49 PM	Definatly dont forget a cr equal charecter class opponenet.
Vaelan 06-29-05, 09:00 PM	NO!!!! A 4 person party in level 4 should be able to fight 4 CR 4 monsters as a equal opponent... I.E. equal chances of winning... (at least acording to theory) So a creature of equal CR/Level would be good Nothing you said has refuted the point you were responding to. 4 CR 4 monsters is a CR 8 encounter. 8 = 4+4, and thus you have really done nothing but restated his point. I would say the opponent's ECL has to be within 1 of the character's.
gastropod 06-29-05, 09:35 PM	I have one more question regarding this requirement: If all requirements are met, the minimum level a character would have to be to take a level of Invisible Blade is at 6th level. In this case is there a minimum level you would say the single combat should be taken at. Like 1st level encounters are just as much about luck as skill, and when you start increasing levels the diversity of the challenges changes as well. So would you limit this test to a minimum level because of this fact, or do you think it is necessary?