Aaargh! Too much resting!! What to do!?? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Aaargh! Too much resting!! What to do!?? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
brunswick
09-11-05, 05:29 AM Hello everyone,

I have been running a campaign for the same player characters since 2001 and they have now all reached 17th level. Now that they have got to this level, they have become ultra paranoid about encounters and persistently insist on buffing themselves to the max before taking on pretty much anything.

Because of this persistent buffing (and their insistence on launching their strongest offensive spells as soon as creatures (no matter what they are) appear, they run out of most of their most potent spells after a combat or two).

This necessitates (as far as they are concerned) resting and, they teleport off to a safe haven, rest for 24 hours, restock all their spells and then return "fully buffed" for the next encounter. So, in game terms, you have the ridiculous situation when the PCs travel the dungeon for, say, 10 minutes of game time and then scarper for 24 hours, return for 10 minutes, scarper etc.,

There are four PCs in the group (a wizard, a cleric, a paladin and a rogue). The two spellcasters are, not surprisingly, the ones clamouring for the constant rests and the paladin and rogue (both in and out of character) are complaining about it.

The spellcasters argue that they dont know whats around the next corner and have to "be prepared". The others (and me) argue that they dont need to be 'ultra buffed' or need to launch their most potent spells for EVERY encounter. Not to mention the fact that it's unrealistic 'in game terms' what they do.

Since they insist on always teleporting away from the dungeon to rest, I cannot interrupt their constant resting with wandering encounters. Also, I have tried running 'time limit' scenarios as well but, after a few of these in a row, the spellcasters complained that they were "never getting a chance to rest".

I would welcome any suggestions fellow DMs might have to solve this over-resting problem.

Thanks,

Bruns. :)
Jancarius
09-11-05, 05:37 AM Just how 'safe' is this safe haven? Have enemies, whoever's in charge of the dungeon, for example, scry them out [Are the Mind Blanked the whole time they are resting, or otherwise protected?] and attack them after they use up all their powers.

Out of curiosity, what were you throwing at them to make them so paranoid? 17th level spellcasters ought to be laughing at what the Paladin and rogue are fearing.
Arcen
09-11-05, 06:00 AM When they clear these dungeons are they staying cleared? Because if I were a BBEG and I got attacked by a group of adventurers not only would I send a replacement for whatever they killed I'd double it for the next month or so.
Gort32
09-11-05, 06:01 AM So they bust into the dungeon slinging fireballs, make it through one encounter, then leave for 24 hours and come back? What were the dungeon's inhabitants doing during this time?

24 hours is plenty of time to prepare an ambush... :devil:
Fedaykin
09-11-05, 06:56 AM You could also give the dungeon a time constraint. Let them know the BBEG is going to complete his evil spell in 2 days for example. That means they can use their trick once instead of every encounter.

Also, maybe the BBEG re-locates after the PC's leave. When they return, the dungeon is empty. Except for a few traps.
Radijs
09-11-05, 07:01 AM If the BBEG is a bit smart he can indeed look for a pattern.

Do the players port back to exactly the point where they left after the encounter. A nice spell "greater anticipate teleportation"(complete arcane) Will make for a nice extra surprise round and readied actions.

Or even more simple. Ward the dungeon against extradimensional travel. Some kind of improved dimensional anchor thats powered by some kind of fiendish (plot) device.
Jancarius
09-11-05, 07:12 AM An Eldritch Machine or those Dimensional Lock things from Eberron would serve these purposes nicely.
Rhomphaia
09-11-05, 07:13 AM Good in game stuff.
However, this sounds like a problem that must be handled out of game, unfortunately.
It seems to me that the spellcasters are action hogs. They wants to have a hand in everything combat related, from buffing to slinging direct damage to healing.
You need to talk to them in particular about this, but also to your group as a whole about tactics.
If they fear what they might run into, have them hang back with the paladin while the rogue scouts ahead. When the rogue does see a potential problem, he/she can report back and the casters can choose the right spells to use to deal with it or to buff the paladin to deal with it.
Alternatively, add more puzzles and traps to the dungeon, thus shifting away from combat and giving the rogue some time to be useful. Same goes for a paladin. put in situations where only a warrior would be useful.
As a final tactic to get them to save their spells (only use if nothing else works) drop an anti-magic zone in there. It's cheap, but if they don't get the hint, maybe they need a good thwack upside the head, and AMZs do that for casters very effectively.
Jancarius
09-11-05, 07:40 AM I'm still really curious how this situation evolved over a group traversing 16 levels and 4 real life years.
gorion
09-11-05, 07:44 AM I agree with the tips other posters wrote.

Try also to explain to your players that you don't need to be over prepared for each and every single fight!
I used to play a level 16th wizard before DMing and most of the time in dungeons I was only giving an hand to main fighters.

We were a 4 man party with a Cleric, a Wizard (me) a Rogue-type character and a Monk.

No great first liners, as you can see.. but we always managed to defeat each and every enemy, mainly because me and the cleric weren't wasting powerful spells with low CR encounters.

I can't remember how many times I simply casted my Haste scroll, or casted Polymorph to the Rogue to make him more resistant.
Sometimes I was just flying around shooting with my crossbow or a few 1st level spells.

However, when we finally reached the final encounter I usually never casted anything below level 5 spells, and I only needed to hold for 3 rounds while the Cleric was buffing himself to death(back in 3e when with my Haste he was able to cast 6 spells in 3 rounds) and then the encounter was 1 sided :)

We never died.
ShadowDragon8685
09-11-05, 08:20 AM Possibly because they've had the characters so long they're terrified of losing them?
Otto the Bugbear
09-11-05, 08:31 AM Sound like time to retire those characters and start over.

You may also want to redo the teleportation spells. Limit their range. By a lot.

Perhaps instead of yet another dungeon, switch to campaign to more intrigue/political, less battle/battle/battle. The Paladin and Rogue will be able to participate still, but if the Wiz and Cleric are just action fiends, then it'll show bright and clear. With levels that high, they should be forces to be reconed with in any land. Not in a battle sense, rather as people of import.

Cheers

Otto :)
tharivol266
09-11-05, 08:42 AM yea have them retire then start again with the main focus on rping rather than combat. for the first few levels the mages will be solid attack spells but then when they get usd to it they'll start having more rp type spells
Jancarius
09-11-05, 08:59 AM I disagree with the retirment suggestions. They should not have to retire after playing 1 character for 4 years.
deadDMwalking
09-11-05, 10:12 AM Retirement is up to the DM. If you're tired of the campaign, it's over.

However, I think a better suggestion (though there are some good ones here) is to "show them up" a little. Whatever reason they've gone into the dungeon (retrieve an item) etc, could be accomplished by a lower level NPC party in the time it takes them to port back and forth.

This is particularly true if the NPC group couldn't possibly win through the entire scenario, but because the PC group handled some of the bigger enemies they had their chance.

The PC group might not be willing to take an item by force from good aligned NPCs, so you can use that a time or two to shame them into action.

Also, the CR system is based on fighting 4 encounters each day. Since your PCs are making sure that doesn't happen, they're not really confronting the full CR of a monster. I'd start using creatures that are higher CR, but awarding less experience. With a ballpark figure, I'd say you can start using CR 20 creatures but award XP as though they were CR 16.
jukar
09-11-05, 11:18 AM Teleport spells are notorious for eliminating a lot of a dungeon's bite, and can be a headache for a DM.

However, there are ways to stop it. Two words. Dimensional. Anchor.

Also, I like the idea an above poster had about making the dungeon a time limited deal.

You could also present enemies resistant to magic, use antimagic fields, have enemies with rings of counterspelling and rings of spell turning.

Or, if you really want to be mean, throw an Inevitable at them, who will try and geas them into completing their task without resting. This only works if the dungeon is part of some important task at hand. If they keep blowing off their obligations to defeat the BBEG/locate the ancient treasure/kill all the kittens in the world/etc, then have a few Kolyaruts pop up, and make sure they are as ****** as logically possible.
Treetrip Danglefoot
09-11-05, 11:19 AM The "constantly moving badguy" and the "race against time" routines are both really good ways to hamstring a group of PCs that do that sort of thing. If they rest for two a whole day, come back, fight two fights, rest two days, the BBEG should probably get up and go. Say he's on the run (from the PCs) and that way they have to go through all the work of finding him again. And again and again and again.

That and the race against time is a great one, that can culminate the moving BBEG. So they finally find him, only to hear from the barely alive orc, that it doesn't matter, because he'll be making the sacrifice at midnight.

And whatever you do, don't let them try the "Alternate dimension where time is so accelerated that one day becomes one material plane minute" thing. Just don't let that fly.
TheDoomBringer
09-11-05, 02:33 PM They're wasting far too much time. Most villains won't care if some group comes in, trashes a small part of the place, and leave.
If there isn't a BBEG, then anything they're facing at lvl17 would be more than smart enough to leave traps or set ambushes. Your party is far too predictable.
Soulman1990
09-11-05, 03:32 PM Let the villan complete his evil scheme, during the time they are resting. Everytime they go back to the dungeon after resting the monsters are restocked. Or just tell them to stop, being so damn paranoid.
brunswick
09-11-05, 04:40 PM Thank you everyone for all those replies. I'll certainly be taking a few of your suggestions on board. Cheers!

Bruns. :)
Norhg
09-11-05, 04:45 PM Thank you everyone for all those replies. I'll certainly be taking a few of your suggestions on board. Cheers!
Good manners would be reporting your success later. Or describing what you are going to do. Hope you do it!
brunswick
09-11-05, 04:50 PM No problem,

I will post later when I've worked something out (although my next game isnt for 3 weeks!).

Again, thanks for all the replies - I'll keep you posted.

Bruns. :D
Midas
09-11-05, 04:52 PM Try imprisoning the god of travel and denying any extradimensional spellcasting until the characters are able to create the proper circumstances to free the diety.

Clerics and mages are uber powerful at high levels with max spells. The balancing factor is that they are limited on spells per day. Explain to your players if they wine too much about whatever you decide to do, that resting between every encounter makes those spellcasting classes overbalanced and limitations need to be placed on them for resting opportunities.
Vaelan
09-11-05, 05:07 PM They teleport home to rest after dealing with the fodder.

BBEG's lieutenant teleports out to import more fodder for them to fight.

This repeats until one of these things happen...

1. They get tired of slaughtering fodder and decide to be more reasonable.
2. The BBEG's plan succeeds and bad things happen.
3. They exhaust the world's supply of fodder.

My preferred solution would be to reduce their spells/day. The current spells/day are balanced against having a certain number of encounters. If they want to partake it half as many encounters, they can have half as many spells. If they want to whine about the DM keeping the game balanced and fair, they can go to hell.
Soulman1990
09-11-05, 05:32 PM Also you could take them into undermountian where they can't teleport out. :) At 17th level they could make it threw a great deal of it anyways, and find some way out.
VirgilCaine
09-11-05, 05:50 PM They're wasting far too much time. Most villains won't care if some group comes in, trashes a small part of the place, and leave.
If there isn't a BBEG, then anything they're facing at lvl17 would be more than smart enough to leave traps or set ambushes. Your party is far too predictable.

Ditto that.
lordjulius
09-11-05, 07:49 PM Fedaykin mentioned adding a time constraint of the BBEG completing a spell in two days. Here are some more that could be used depending on the characters motivations.

The BBEG is summoning, creating or recruiting new creatures each day.
If they kill one dragon and come back the next day they find a diferent dragon (or worse) in the same room.

The BBEG is sending critters to disrupt the towns in the area.
The longer the characters take, the more inocents will be lost.

As the party is getting set to leave the dungeon an NPC party shows up and asks if they party minds if they "play through." When the party returns the NPC party has already vanquished the BBEG and gotten all of the glory.

Bring the battle to the players. If they insist on picking hte BBEG guys home appart one room per day he may have to figure out where they go to hide at night. BBEGs can have crystal balls and Divination spells etc... Once he knows that they like to stay at the Laughing Dragon Inn 300 miles he may have a surprise waiting for them the nest time they go to sleep.
tompulsar
09-11-05, 08:15 PM Have you tried hitting them?

over and over?
mhr74
09-11-05, 09:23 PM Have you tried hitting them?

over and over?

Do this after what all the others suggested.

Restock dungeons, they don't stay clear especially if the BBEG has any brains at all.

Situational traps where they can't bail out.

Maybe some OOC chit chat about spell selection so the spellcasters aren't total "action hogs." (gr8 term) There are lots of spells the can use to help out in other ways.
Lord Gwydion
09-12-05, 12:59 AM The smart BBEG (and if they're the BBEG, they probably should be fairly smart) would probably do something like this:

Upon realizing that the pesky interlopers only fight one or two of his minions then teleport away, and teleport back in the next day to fight one or two minions, he would plan for this.

He'd set up ambushes in each room that the characters have been through already (because they have to teleport into one of them, or come in the main entrance after teleporting somewhere nearby). He'll set up these ambushes with traps and low level cannon fodder, since he's learned that the Wizard and Cleric blow the big spells first. So we have several rooms with ambushing kobolds (your typical 1st level dungeon encounter) to suck up the big spells. Then have a second wave of more powerful creatures to spring a double ambush once the party casters have used Meteor Swarm to kill some 1st level Warrior Kobolds.

Rinse and repeat.

While the "heroes" are wasting their time and spells blasting low level baddies, then having to scramble to fight something they might get some XP from, the BBEG and his toughest minions are using all the Divination spells and transportation spells they can get their hands on to track down the PCs' base where they teleport to rest, and plan to have the really tough minions all waiting there for the group to teleport in to rest.

It may take the BBEG a while to locate the group's home base, but once he does, he can be fairly certain that he'll catch the group off guard and low on spells. If you're a nice DM, make the encounter something that the Paladin and Rogue have a good chance of saving the day, while the Cleric and Wizard lament using a Prismatic Wall to trap a lowly Kobold on the off chance that he might have been a level 17 Kobold Sorcerer.
Venom of the Yuan Ti
09-12-05, 04:10 AM Goose and gander my freind.

Have the monsters teleport out, and then teleport BACK whilst the party is in another fight.
AcidAngel
09-12-05, 05:26 AM Ring of Sustenance: This ring continually provides its wearer with life-sustaining nourishment. The ring also refreshes the body and mind, so that its wearer needs only sleep 2 hours per day to gain the benefit of 8 hours of sleep. The ring must be worn for a full week before it begins to work. If it is removed, the owner must wear it for another week to reattune it to himself.
Faint conjuration; CL 5th; Forge Ring, create food and water; Price 2,500 gp.

So any 17th level PC could get one.
Merestil Haye
09-12-05, 06:59 AM Sadly this does not help.

Divine spellcasters can only refresh their spells at a specific time of day.

Arcane spellcasters must have eight hours of restful quiet to refresh spells even if they do not require any sleep at all.
SamiPeikko
09-12-05, 07:39 AM Do the characters have Knowledge skills? They might know that the first monster coming round the corner should be a pushover. Try somehow to give them more beforehand knowledge about encounters they are going to face. That might give them better feeling of security, and allow for planning beforehand what spells to use at what encounter.

Have someone give them equipment of Augury, that every time when someone comments about teleporting back to rest tells wether that is good or bad idea. :)

Nasty eye-opener can be Mirror of opposition: if they had continued with spells used, they would have better chance than against themselves fully stocked with save-or-dies and healing...

If you take them to Underdark, tell them that they have to clear "that and that group of monsters to guarantee safe rest", and if they risk it, roll 50% to have something threatening ta attack them.
Needle
09-12-05, 07:44 AM Maybe scale down the encounters for a few fights so they have a 'breather period' in which they'll drop their expectations of whats around corners.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
brunswick 09-11-05, 05:29 AM	Hello everyone, I have been running a campaign for the same player characters since 2001 and they have now all reached 17th level. Now that they have got to this level, they have become ultra paranoid about encounters and persistently insist on buffing themselves to the max before taking on pretty much anything. Because of this persistent buffing (and their insistence on launching their strongest offensive spells as soon as creatures (no matter what they are) appear, they run out of most of their most potent spells after a combat or two). This necessitates (as far as they are concerned) resting and, they teleport off to a safe haven, rest for 24 hours, restock all their spells and then return "fully buffed" for the next encounter. So, in game terms, you have the ridiculous situation when the PCs travel the dungeon for, say, 10 minutes of game time and then scarper for 24 hours, return for 10 minutes, scarper etc., There are four PCs in the group (a wizard, a cleric, a paladin and a rogue). The two spellcasters are, not surprisingly, the ones clamouring for the constant rests and the paladin and rogue (both in and out of character) are complaining about it. The spellcasters argue that they dont know whats around the next corner and have to "be prepared". The others (and me) argue that they dont need to be 'ultra buffed' or need to launch their most potent spells for EVERY encounter. Not to mention the fact that it's unrealistic 'in game terms' what they do. Since they insist on always teleporting away from the dungeon to rest, I cannot interrupt their constant resting with wandering encounters. Also, I have tried running 'time limit' scenarios as well but, after a few of these in a row, the spellcasters complained that they were "never getting a chance to rest". I would welcome any suggestions fellow DMs might have to solve this over-resting problem. Thanks, Bruns. :)
Jancarius 09-11-05, 05:37 AM	Just how 'safe' is this safe haven? Have enemies, whoever's in charge of the dungeon, for example, scry them out [Are the Mind Blanked the whole time they are resting, or otherwise protected?] and attack them after they use up all their powers. Out of curiosity, what were you throwing at them to make them so paranoid? 17th level spellcasters ought to be laughing at what the Paladin and rogue are fearing.
Arcen 09-11-05, 06:00 AM	When they clear these dungeons are they staying cleared? Because if I were a BBEG and I got attacked by a group of adventurers not only would I send a replacement for whatever they killed I'd double it for the next month or so.
Gort32 09-11-05, 06:01 AM	So they bust into the dungeon slinging fireballs, make it through one encounter, then leave for 24 hours and come back? What were the dungeon's inhabitants doing during this time? 24 hours is plenty of time to prepare an ambush... :devil:
Fedaykin 09-11-05, 06:56 AM	You could also give the dungeon a time constraint. Let them know the BBEG is going to complete his evil spell in 2 days for example. That means they can use their trick once instead of every encounter. Also, maybe the BBEG re-locates after the PC's leave. When they return, the dungeon is empty. Except for a few traps.
Radijs 09-11-05, 07:01 AM	If the BBEG is a bit smart he can indeed look for a pattern. Do the players port back to exactly the point where they left after the encounter. A nice spell "greater anticipate teleportation"(complete arcane) Will make for a nice extra surprise round and readied actions. Or even more simple. Ward the dungeon against extradimensional travel. Some kind of improved dimensional anchor thats powered by some kind of fiendish (plot) device.
Jancarius 09-11-05, 07:12 AM	An Eldritch Machine or those Dimensional Lock things from Eberron would serve these purposes nicely.
Rhomphaia 09-11-05, 07:13 AM	Good in game stuff. However, this sounds like a problem that must be handled out of game, unfortunately. It seems to me that the spellcasters are action hogs. They wants to have a hand in everything combat related, from buffing to slinging direct damage to healing. You need to talk to them in particular about this, but also to your group as a whole about tactics. If they fear what they might run into, have them hang back with the paladin while the rogue scouts ahead. When the rogue does see a potential problem, he/she can report back and the casters can choose the right spells to use to deal with it or to buff the paladin to deal with it. Alternatively, add more puzzles and traps to the dungeon, thus shifting away from combat and giving the rogue some time to be useful. Same goes for a paladin. put in situations where only a warrior would be useful. As a final tactic to get them to save their spells (only use if nothing else works) drop an anti-magic zone in there. It's cheap, but if they don't get the hint, maybe they need a good thwack upside the head, and AMZs do that for casters very effectively.
Jancarius 09-11-05, 07:40 AM	I'm still really curious how this situation evolved over a group traversing 16 levels and 4 real life years.
gorion 09-11-05, 07:44 AM	I agree with the tips other posters wrote. Try also to explain to your players that you don't need to be over prepared for each and every single fight! I used to play a level 16th wizard before DMing and most of the time in dungeons I was only giving an hand to main fighters. We were a 4 man party with a Cleric, a Wizard (me) a Rogue-type character and a Monk. No great first liners, as you can see.. but we always managed to defeat each and every enemy, mainly because me and the cleric weren't wasting powerful spells with low CR encounters. I can't remember how many times I simply casted my Haste scroll, or casted Polymorph to the Rogue to make him more resistant. Sometimes I was just flying around shooting with my crossbow or a few 1st level spells. However, when we finally reached the final encounter I usually never casted anything below level 5 spells, and I only needed to hold for 3 rounds while the Cleric was buffing himself to death(back in 3e when with my Haste he was able to cast 6 spells in 3 rounds) and then the encounter was 1 sided :) We never died.
ShadowDragon8685 09-11-05, 08:20 AM	Possibly because they've had the characters so long they're terrified of losing them?
Otto the Bugbear 09-11-05, 08:31 AM	Sound like time to retire those characters and start over. You may also want to redo the teleportation spells. Limit their range. By a lot. Perhaps instead of yet another dungeon, switch to campaign to more intrigue/political, less battle/battle/battle. The Paladin and Rogue will be able to participate still, but if the Wiz and Cleric are just action fiends, then it'll show bright and clear. With levels that high, they should be forces to be reconed with in any land. Not in a battle sense, rather as people of import. Cheers Otto :)
tharivol266 09-11-05, 08:42 AM	yea have them retire then start again with the main focus on rping rather than combat. for the first few levels the mages will be solid attack spells but then when they get usd to it they'll start having more rp type spells
Jancarius 09-11-05, 08:59 AM	I disagree with the retirment suggestions. They should not have to retire after playing 1 character for 4 years.
deadDMwalking 09-11-05, 10:12 AM	Retirement is up to the DM. If you're tired of the campaign, it's over. However, I think a better suggestion (though there are some good ones here) is to "show them up" a little. Whatever reason they've gone into the dungeon (retrieve an item) etc, could be accomplished by a lower level NPC party in the time it takes them to port back and forth. This is particularly true if the NPC group couldn't possibly win through the entire scenario, but because the PC group handled some of the bigger enemies they had their chance. The PC group might not be willing to take an item by force from good aligned NPCs, so you can use that a time or two to shame them into action. Also, the CR system is based on fighting 4 encounters each day. Since your PCs are making sure that doesn't happen, they're not really confronting the full CR of a monster. I'd start using creatures that are higher CR, but awarding less experience. With a ballpark figure, I'd say you can start using CR 20 creatures but award XP as though they were CR 16.
jukar 09-11-05, 11:18 AM	Teleport spells are notorious for eliminating a lot of a dungeon's bite, and can be a headache for a DM. However, there are ways to stop it. Two words. Dimensional. Anchor. Also, I like the idea an above poster had about making the dungeon a time limited deal. You could also present enemies resistant to magic, use antimagic fields, have enemies with rings of counterspelling and rings of spell turning. Or, if you really want to be mean, throw an Inevitable at them, who will try and geas them into completing their task without resting. This only works if the dungeon is part of some important task at hand. If they keep blowing off their obligations to defeat the BBEG/locate the ancient treasure/kill all the kittens in the world/etc, then have a few Kolyaruts pop up, and make sure they are as ****** as logically possible.
Treetrip Danglefoot 09-11-05, 11:19 AM	The "constantly moving badguy" and the "race against time" routines are both really good ways to hamstring a group of PCs that do that sort of thing. If they rest for two a whole day, come back, fight two fights, rest two days, the BBEG should probably get up and go. Say he's on the run (from the PCs) and that way they have to go through all the work of finding him again. And again and again and again. That and the race against time is a great one, that can culminate the moving BBEG. So they finally find him, only to hear from the barely alive orc, that it doesn't matter, because he'll be making the sacrifice at midnight. And whatever you do, don't let them try the "Alternate dimension where time is so accelerated that one day becomes one material plane minute" thing. Just don't let that fly.
TheDoomBringer 09-11-05, 02:33 PM	They're wasting far too much time. Most villains won't care if some group comes in, trashes a small part of the place, and leave. If there isn't a BBEG, then anything they're facing at lvl17 would be more than smart enough to leave traps or set ambushes. Your party is far too predictable.
Soulman1990 09-11-05, 03:32 PM	Let the villan complete his evil scheme, during the time they are resting. Everytime they go back to the dungeon after resting the monsters are restocked. Or just tell them to stop, being so damn paranoid.
brunswick 09-11-05, 04:40 PM	Thank you everyone for all those replies. I'll certainly be taking a few of your suggestions on board. Cheers! Bruns. :)
Norhg 09-11-05, 04:45 PM	Thank you everyone for all those replies. I'll certainly be taking a few of your suggestions on board. Cheers! Good manners would be reporting your success later. Or describing what you are going to do. Hope you do it!
brunswick 09-11-05, 04:50 PM	No problem, I will post later when I've worked something out (although my next game isnt for 3 weeks!). Again, thanks for all the replies - I'll keep you posted. Bruns. :D
Midas 09-11-05, 04:52 PM	Try imprisoning the god of travel and denying any extradimensional spellcasting until the characters are able to create the proper circumstances to free the diety. Clerics and mages are uber powerful at high levels with max spells. The balancing factor is that they are limited on spells per day. Explain to your players if they wine too much about whatever you decide to do, that resting between every encounter makes those spellcasting classes overbalanced and limitations need to be placed on them for resting opportunities.
Vaelan 09-11-05, 05:07 PM	They teleport home to rest after dealing with the fodder. BBEG's lieutenant teleports out to import more fodder for them to fight. This repeats until one of these things happen... 1. They get tired of slaughtering fodder and decide to be more reasonable. 2. The BBEG's plan succeeds and bad things happen. 3. They exhaust the world's supply of fodder. My preferred solution would be to reduce their spells/day. The current spells/day are balanced against having a certain number of encounters. If they want to partake it half as many encounters, they can have half as many spells. If they want to whine about the DM keeping the game balanced and fair, they can go to hell.
Soulman1990 09-11-05, 05:32 PM	Also you could take them into undermountian where they can't teleport out. :) At 17th level they could make it threw a great deal of it anyways, and find some way out.
VirgilCaine 09-11-05, 05:50 PM	They're wasting far too much time. Most villains won't care if some group comes in, trashes a small part of the place, and leave. If there isn't a BBEG, then anything they're facing at lvl17 would be more than smart enough to leave traps or set ambushes. Your party is far too predictable. Ditto that.
lordjulius 09-11-05, 07:49 PM	Fedaykin mentioned adding a time constraint of the BBEG completing a spell in two days. Here are some more that could be used depending on the characters motivations. The BBEG is summoning, creating or recruiting new creatures each day. If they kill one dragon and come back the next day they find a diferent dragon (or worse) in the same room. The BBEG is sending critters to disrupt the towns in the area. The longer the characters take, the more inocents will be lost. As the party is getting set to leave the dungeon an NPC party shows up and asks if they party minds if they "play through." When the party returns the NPC party has already vanquished the BBEG and gotten all of the glory. Bring the battle to the players. If they insist on picking hte BBEG guys home appart one room per day he may have to figure out where they go to hide at night. BBEGs can have crystal balls and Divination spells etc... Once he knows that they like to stay at the Laughing Dragon Inn 300 miles he may have a surprise waiting for them the nest time they go to sleep.
tompulsar 09-11-05, 08:15 PM	Have you tried hitting them? over and over?
mhr74 09-11-05, 09:23 PM	Have you tried hitting them? over and over? Do this after what all the others suggested. Restock dungeons, they don't stay clear especially if the BBEG has any brains at all. Situational traps where they can't bail out. Maybe some OOC chit chat about spell selection so the spellcasters aren't total "action hogs." (gr8 term) There are lots of spells the can use to help out in other ways.
Lord Gwydion 09-12-05, 12:59 AM	The smart BBEG (and if they're the BBEG, they probably should be fairly smart) would probably do something like this: Upon realizing that the pesky interlopers only fight one or two of his minions then teleport away, and teleport back in the next day to fight one or two minions, he would plan for this. He'd set up ambushes in each room that the characters have been through already (because they have to teleport into one of them, or come in the main entrance after teleporting somewhere nearby). He'll set up these ambushes with traps and low level cannon fodder, since he's learned that the Wizard and Cleric blow the big spells first. So we have several rooms with ambushing kobolds (your typical 1st level dungeon encounter) to suck up the big spells. Then have a second wave of more powerful creatures to spring a double ambush once the party casters have used Meteor Swarm to kill some 1st level Warrior Kobolds. Rinse and repeat. While the "heroes" are wasting their time and spells blasting low level baddies, then having to scramble to fight something they might get some XP from, the BBEG and his toughest minions are using all the Divination spells and transportation spells they can get their hands on to track down the PCs' base where they teleport to rest, and plan to have the really tough minions all waiting there for the group to teleport in to rest. It may take the BBEG a while to locate the group's home base, but once he does, he can be fairly certain that he'll catch the group off guard and low on spells. If you're a nice DM, make the encounter something that the Paladin and Rogue have a good chance of saving the day, while the Cleric and Wizard lament using a Prismatic Wall to trap a lowly Kobold on the off chance that he might have been a level 17 Kobold Sorcerer.
Venom of the Yuan Ti 09-12-05, 04:10 AM	Goose and gander my freind. Have the monsters teleport out, and then teleport BACK whilst the party is in another fight.
AcidAngel 09-12-05, 05:26 AM	Ring of Sustenance: This ring continually provides its wearer with life-sustaining nourishment. The ring also refreshes the body and mind, so that its wearer needs only sleep 2 hours per day to gain the benefit of 8 hours of sleep. The ring must be worn for a full week before it begins to work. If it is removed, the owner must wear it for another week to reattune it to himself. Faint conjuration; CL 5th; Forge Ring, create food and water; Price 2,500 gp. So any 17th level PC could get one.
Merestil Haye 09-12-05, 06:59 AM	Sadly this does not help. Divine spellcasters can only refresh their spells at a specific time of day. Arcane spellcasters must have eight hours of restful quiet to refresh spells even if they do not require any sleep at all.
SamiPeikko 09-12-05, 07:39 AM	Do the characters have Knowledge skills? They might know that the first monster coming round the corner should be a pushover. Try somehow to give them more beforehand knowledge about encounters they are going to face. That might give them better feeling of security, and allow for planning beforehand what spells to use at what encounter. Have someone give them equipment of Augury, that every time when someone comments about teleporting back to rest tells wether that is good or bad idea. :) Nasty eye-opener can be Mirror of opposition: if they had continued with spells used, they would have better chance than against themselves fully stocked with save-or-dies and healing... If you take them to Underdark, tell them that they have to clear "that and that group of monsters to guarantee safe rest", and if they risk it, roll 50% to have something threatening ta attack them.
Needle 09-12-05, 07:44 AM	Maybe scale down the encounters for a few fights so they have a 'breather period' in which they'll drop their expectations of whats around corners.