Aasimar / tiefling Question [Archive] - Wizards Community

Aasimar / tiefling Question [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Myer Lynk
02-16-05, 11:48 AM now they are basically assuming in the books these are all plane touched humans, could this happen with an elf (same stats as a normal plane touched of course) just an extended like span like that of maybe a half elf or a normal elf ... ?? and maybe low light vision becuase all elves have it?

would you as a DM accept ??
Santrilla
02-16-05, 12:25 PM No reason why not. I'd apply the elven racial adjustments to the existing Planetouched.
Valdar
02-16-05, 01:01 PM Check out Fey'Ri from Monsters of Faerun- they're elf/tieflings. You can't really just apply the aasimar/tiefling templates to elves and have it be balanced- both Elves and Planetouched have advantages in exchange for the default Human feat, skill points, and versatile favored class, so if you are playing an elf/planetouched with traits of both, you're giving up your human advantages once and gaining racial advantages twice. Think about it- if you can play an elf/planetouched and get all the advantages of both, can I play a human/planetouched and get all the advantages of both (i.e. any favored class, skill points, feats)? I would say no- I assume that all planetouched PCs are of some PC race (you can specify whatever you want), but your traits are just that of the planetouched that you pick. Otherwise, who would play a normal human planetouched if they could play a half-elf planetouched, and get the bonuses to saves and immunity to sleep for free?
Board_Rider
02-16-05, 02:11 PM I would allow it and make it a a LA+1 Race.
MARKIMO
02-16-05, 02:32 PM Assimar and Tiefling are already a LA +1. So, make it a level adjustment of +2.
Black Kitten
02-16-05, 03:44 PM I'd rule that a planetouched would only look like a member of such a race, but not have any different stats, especially with thieflings. The blood of these creatures has been mingled with that of others. The only difference I might allow is to have one become small when applied to gnome/halfling creatures.
Myer Lynk
02-16-05, 03:54 PM Check out Fey'Ri from Monsters of Faerun- they're elf/tieflings. You can't really just apply the aasimar/tiefling templates to elves and have it be balanced- both Elves and Planetouched have advantages in exchange for the default Human feat, skill points, and versatile favored class, so if you are playing an elf/planetouched with traits of both, you're giving up your human advantages once and gaining racial advantages twice. Think about it- if you can play an elf/planetouched and get all the advantages of both, can I play a human/planetouched and get all the advantages of both (i.e. any favored class, skill points, feats)? I would say no- I assume that all planetouched PCs are of some PC race (you can specify whatever you want), but your traits are just that of the planetouched that you pick. Otherwise, who would play a normal human planetouched if they could play a half-elf planetouched, and get the bonuses to saves and immunity to sleep for free?

well I was actually saying that we leave the racial adjustments alone and just alter the aging of the character and maybe add low light vision since all elves have that... the racial adjustments for the elf would not apply becuase of what the assimar already gets
Valdar
02-16-05, 04:10 PM well I was actually saying that we leave the racial adjustments alone and just alter the aging of the character and maybe add low light vision since all elves have that... the racial adjustments for the elf would not apply becuase of what the assimar already gets

That's a start, but that begs the question of what the character gives up in exchange for the free extra stuff? If an Elf Aasimar gets all the advantages of a plain old Aasimar, plus low-light vision and longevity, why would anyone play a Human Aasimar? (Or, more accurately, why are you punishing the Human Aasimar by making him inferior to the Elf Aasimar?) Board Rider and MARKIMO suggested giving them all the bennies and bumping up the LA, but I'm not sure the elf advantages are worth another +1 LA (but then again, I think most LAs are a little harsh, so that might be appropriate).

I think what you should do, if you want the Elf/Planetouched to have his own "character" without upping the LA, is to create a new race (similar to the route Wizards took with the Fey'Ri and Tanarruk)- just take the Planetouched, and add some Elf bonuses, but also add some Elf drawbacks or remove some Planetouched benefits to balance it out. I would think that adding sleep immunity, low-light vision, longevity, and -2 Con to the existing Planetouched package would be balanced, and not warrant a bump to the LA. You might also consider a bonus to Dex in exchange for one of the attribute bonuses that the planetouched normally gets.

Most importantly though, you should decide on the traits of the new race without getting your player's approval, or it may lead to your player min-maxing by picking and choosing the best attributes that fit his character concept (Not that I'm opposed to a little min/maxing to make your character more effective, but if you're making up new rules in order to min/max, I'd say that lies firmly in the territory of munchkinism).
Board_Rider
02-16-05, 08:33 PM Assimar and Tiefling are already a LA +1. So, make it a level adjustment of +2.

I wouldn't think so. You simply take the +/- to the attributes that the elf already has and substitute them with what the Tieflings/Assamirs +/-'s are. Elfs being a non LA Race and Tieflings/Assamirs being a +1 LA should still only be a +1LA.
Myer Lynk
02-17-05, 09:52 AM That's a start, but that begs the question of what the character gives up in exchange for the free extra stuff? If an Elf Aasimar gets all the advantages of a plain old Aasimar, plus low-light vision and longevity, why would anyone play a Human Aasimar? (Or, more accurately, why are you punishing the Human Aasimar by making him inferior to the Elf Aasimar?) Board Rider and MARKIMO suggested giving them all the bennies and bumping up the LA, but I'm not sure the elf advantages are worth another +1 LA (but then again, I think most LAs are a little harsh, so that might be appropriate).

I think what you should do, if you want the Elf/Planetouched to have his own "character" without upping the LA, is to create a new race (similar to the route Wizards took with the Fey'Ri and Tanarruk)- just take the Planetouched, and add some Elf bonuses, but also add some Elf drawbacks or remove some Planetouched benefits to balance it out. I would think that adding sleep immunity, low-light vision, longevity, and -2 Con to the existing Planetouched package would be balanced, and not warrant a bump to the LA. You might also consider a bonus to Dex in exchange for one of the attribute bonuses that the planetouched normally gets.

Most importantly though, you should decide on the traits of the new race without getting your player's approval, or it may lead to your player min-maxing by picking and choosing the best attributes that fit his character concept (Not that I'm opposed to a little min/maxing to make your character more effective, but if you're making up new rules in order to min/max, I'd say that lies firmly in the territory of munchkinism).

Well longevity is something the elves have always had over humans for sure as well as low-light vision, so maybe to help balance this because the elves are frail give them the -2 con along with the normal assimar/ tiefling racial traits.

but let me know what you think on that Idea..
MARKIMO
02-17-05, 05:11 PM The thing is you are getting all the Elf traits both +/-'s and Tiefling/Aasimar +/-'s. But for the regular Tiefling/Aasimar you are only getting there +/-'s and none for Human. So, the Elven Tiefling would in every way be superior to the standard Tiefling. I would say the best thing balance it out would to be write out all traits the Tiefling gets and remove/substitute traits. Like remove acid,fire, and cold resistance for the elven trait of +2 Dex, -2 Con or something along those lines.

But if all you are adding is age category and appearance of Elves I wouldnt worry about any other adjustments. Also the plane touched already get dark vision so, substitute low-light for dark vision instead.
Slider33
02-17-05, 05:40 PM I consider aasimar/tieflings to be a whole other race unto themselves in a way, mostly for keeping things simple. I guess the question is, are they a "race" or are they a "template"?

I don't really know since I probably won't incorporate them into my campaigns....

you'd have to apply the whole mess of skill points, feats, vision, stat adjustments, all that crap if you mingled it with a core "race" really. And I don't even pretend to know what that would be at the time.. I'd just take them for what they are and apply all the bonuses/strengths they already have, instead of meshing them with core attributes of another race. But that's my opinion.

Race or template? I don't know, I think they are a race myself...

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Myer Lynk 02-16-05, 11:48 AM	now they are basically assuming in the books these are all plane touched humans, could this happen with an elf (same stats as a normal plane touched of course) just an extended like span like that of maybe a half elf or a normal elf ... ?? and maybe low light vision becuase all elves have it? would you as a DM accept ??
Santrilla 02-16-05, 12:25 PM	No reason why not. I'd apply the elven racial adjustments to the existing Planetouched.
Valdar 02-16-05, 01:01 PM	Check out Fey'Ri from Monsters of Faerun- they're elf/tieflings. You can't really just apply the aasimar/tiefling templates to elves and have it be balanced- both Elves and Planetouched have advantages in exchange for the default Human feat, skill points, and versatile favored class, so if you are playing an elf/planetouched with traits of both, you're giving up your human advantages once and gaining racial advantages twice. Think about it- if you can play an elf/planetouched and get all the advantages of both, can I play a human/planetouched and get all the advantages of both (i.e. any favored class, skill points, feats)? I would say no- I assume that all planetouched PCs are of some PC race (you can specify whatever you want), but your traits are just that of the planetouched that you pick. Otherwise, who would play a normal human planetouched if they could play a half-elf planetouched, and get the bonuses to saves and immunity to sleep for free?
Board_Rider 02-16-05, 02:11 PM	I would allow it and make it a a LA+1 Race.
MARKIMO 02-16-05, 02:32 PM	Assimar and Tiefling are already a LA +1. So, make it a level adjustment of +2.
Black Kitten 02-16-05, 03:44 PM	I'd rule that a planetouched would only look like a member of such a race, but not have any different stats, especially with thieflings. The blood of these creatures has been mingled with that of others. The only difference I might allow is to have one become small when applied to gnome/halfling creatures.
Myer Lynk 02-16-05, 03:54 PM	Check out Fey'Ri from Monsters of Faerun- they're elf/tieflings. You can't really just apply the aasimar/tiefling templates to elves and have it be balanced- both Elves and Planetouched have advantages in exchange for the default Human feat, skill points, and versatile favored class, so if you are playing an elf/planetouched with traits of both, you're giving up your human advantages once and gaining racial advantages twice. Think about it- if you can play an elf/planetouched and get all the advantages of both, can I play a human/planetouched and get all the advantages of both (i.e. any favored class, skill points, feats)? I would say no- I assume that all planetouched PCs are of some PC race (you can specify whatever you want), but your traits are just that of the planetouched that you pick. Otherwise, who would play a normal human planetouched if they could play a half-elf planetouched, and get the bonuses to saves and immunity to sleep for free? well I was actually saying that we leave the racial adjustments alone and just alter the aging of the character and maybe add low light vision since all elves have that... the racial adjustments for the elf would not apply becuase of what the assimar already gets
Valdar 02-16-05, 04:10 PM	well I was actually saying that we leave the racial adjustments alone and just alter the aging of the character and maybe add low light vision since all elves have that... the racial adjustments for the elf would not apply becuase of what the assimar already gets That's a start, but that begs the question of what the character gives up in exchange for the free extra stuff? If an Elf Aasimar gets all the advantages of a plain old Aasimar, plus low-light vision and longevity, why would anyone play a Human Aasimar? (Or, more accurately, why are you punishing the Human Aasimar by making him inferior to the Elf Aasimar?) Board Rider and MARKIMO suggested giving them all the bennies and bumping up the LA, but I'm not sure the elf advantages are worth another +1 LA (but then again, I think most LAs are a little harsh, so that might be appropriate). I think what you should do, if you want the Elf/Planetouched to have his own "character" without upping the LA, is to create a new race (similar to the route Wizards took with the Fey'Ri and Tanarruk)- just take the Planetouched, and add some Elf bonuses, but also add some Elf drawbacks or remove some Planetouched benefits to balance it out. I would think that adding sleep immunity, low-light vision, longevity, and -2 Con to the existing Planetouched package would be balanced, and not warrant a bump to the LA. You might also consider a bonus to Dex in exchange for one of the attribute bonuses that the planetouched normally gets. Most importantly though, you should decide on the traits of the new race without getting your player's approval, or it may lead to your player min-maxing by picking and choosing the best attributes that fit his character concept (Not that I'm opposed to a little min/maxing to make your character more effective, but if you're making up new rules in order to min/max, I'd say that lies firmly in the territory of munchkinism).
Board_Rider 02-16-05, 08:33 PM	Assimar and Tiefling are already a LA +1. So, make it a level adjustment of +2. I wouldn't think so. You simply take the +/- to the attributes that the elf already has and substitute them with what the Tieflings/Assamirs +/-'s are. Elfs being a non LA Race and Tieflings/Assamirs being a +1 LA should still only be a +1LA.
Myer Lynk 02-17-05, 09:52 AM	That's a start, but that begs the question of what the character gives up in exchange for the free extra stuff? If an Elf Aasimar gets all the advantages of a plain old Aasimar, plus low-light vision and longevity, why would anyone play a Human Aasimar? (Or, more accurately, why are you punishing the Human Aasimar by making him inferior to the Elf Aasimar?) Board Rider and MARKIMO suggested giving them all the bennies and bumping up the LA, but I'm not sure the elf advantages are worth another +1 LA (but then again, I think most LAs are a little harsh, so that might be appropriate). I think what you should do, if you want the Elf/Planetouched to have his own "character" without upping the LA, is to create a new race (similar to the route Wizards took with the Fey'Ri and Tanarruk)- just take the Planetouched, and add some Elf bonuses, but also add some Elf drawbacks or remove some Planetouched benefits to balance it out. I would think that adding sleep immunity, low-light vision, longevity, and -2 Con to the existing Planetouched package would be balanced, and not warrant a bump to the LA. You might also consider a bonus to Dex in exchange for one of the attribute bonuses that the planetouched normally gets. Most importantly though, you should decide on the traits of the new race without getting your player's approval, or it may lead to your player min-maxing by picking and choosing the best attributes that fit his character concept (Not that I'm opposed to a little min/maxing to make your character more effective, but if you're making up new rules in order to min/max, I'd say that lies firmly in the territory of munchkinism). Well longevity is something the elves have always had over humans for sure as well as low-light vision, so maybe to help balance this because the elves are frail give them the -2 con along with the normal assimar/ tiefling racial traits. but let me know what you think on that Idea..
MARKIMO 02-17-05, 05:11 PM	The thing is you are getting all the Elf traits both +/-'s and Tiefling/Aasimar +/-'s. But for the regular Tiefling/Aasimar you are only getting there +/-'s and none for Human. So, the Elven Tiefling would in every way be superior to the standard Tiefling. I would say the best thing balance it out would to be write out all traits the Tiefling gets and remove/substitute traits. Like remove acid,fire, and cold resistance for the elven trait of +2 Dex, -2 Con or something along those lines. But if all you are adding is age category and appearance of Elves I wouldnt worry about any other adjustments. Also the plane touched already get dark vision so, substitute low-light for dark vision instead.
Slider33 02-17-05, 05:40 PM	I consider aasimar/tieflings to be a whole other race unto themselves in a way, mostly for keeping things simple. I guess the question is, are they a "race" or are they a "template"? I don't really know since I probably won't incorporate them into my campaigns.... you'd have to apply the whole mess of skill points, feats, vision, stat adjustments, all that crap if you mingled it with a core "race" really. And I don't even pretend to know what that would be at the time.. I'd just take them for what they are and apply all the bonuses/strengths they already have, instead of meshing them with core attributes of another race. But that's my opinion. Race or template? I don't know, I think they are a race myself...