Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Link182 11-03-03, 05:02 AM	I just read in a post that ability enchancements don't stack. Can anyone point me to the page that has this info (3.5). I think this info is going to freak out my 19th level PCs.
Palin the Wizard 11-03-03, 05:11 AM	You mean from tomes, I presume? You can't read a +1 manual of gainful exercise and a +2 manual of gainful exercise then get +3 STR, if that's what you mean. You'd get +2. Wish spells, however, can be made to "stack". You make five wishes, each time wishing for the bonus to be one higher (from +0 to +1, +1 to +2, etc.). I know this isn't really answering your question, only clarifying, but I don't have the page numbers. I believe this is for both 3E and 3ER, by the way.
Rabe 11-03-03, 05:59 AM	You find it in the DMG, check the index for it. Bonuses with same name do not stack, so if someone is wearing two items and having three spells on himelf, which all grant an enhancement bonus to STR for example, only the highest one counts (they overlap, so if the highest one is taken out, the second kicks in). In the same vein: do not allow items to be created with say a divine bonus to STR, because the cleric is enchanting it...the munchkins can get really creative here to break the rules. Rabe
primemover003 11-03-03, 06:11 AM	Correct. A Belt of Giant Str +6 doesn't stack with Gauntlets of Ogre Power (+2)... Unless you get a dwarven thrower hammer which is completely irrelevant! Ability increases from levels obviously add up and you can gain up to +5 inherent ability bonuses from wishes per each ability score.
Link182 11-03-03, 03:07 PM	Ah I see. It's just that I've got a 19th level fighter/ranger/deepwood sniper with a 30 dexterity. (max stats, gloves of dex, etc) and a 19th level druid with an extremely high wisdom due to character age, maxing, magic items, tomes of whatever. Just wondering how to take the sting out of these guys.
MightyMightyThundarr 11-03-03, 03:56 PM	Force them to deliniate which parts of their stats are coming from which bonuses. For instance, with the ranger: How much of the dexterity is natural? (his original stat roll + ability score increases every 4 levels) How much comes from enhancement bonuses? (the gloves of dexterity, for instance) How much comes from inherent bonuses? How much from racial bonuses? ... and lastly, does he get the same TYPE of bonus from more than one source? For instance, does his total dex come from adding together the bonuses of the gloves of dexterity and a cat's grace spell? Any time two bonuses of the same type are used at the same time, only the more extreme of the two is used. (a +2 enhancement bonus trumps a +1, a -3 enhancement penalty trumps a +2, etc). Exceptions are for dodge bonuses and most circumstance bonuses, which can stack with one another. Basically the rule is there to keep a low level druid from turning the party's fighter into Thor by casting bull's strength on him over and over.
Link182 11-03-03, 05:09 PM	I know about the bonus types. I even plugged his character in Etools. It comes out correctly. I believe it came from the following path 18 Dex FR Moon Elf +2 Dex 4 ability points due to levels all in Dexterity Gloves of Dex +6 =30
Optimus Prime. 11-03-03, 05:36 PM	the same kind of enhancements don't stack that's right, but what is the problem with a stat of 30 around 19th level...... :uh-huh:
Link182 11-03-03, 06:51 PM	Nothing really. His AC is 30 and the other characters are a bit lower. Honestly, I've been DMing 1st and 2nd edition for years and this is the first time we've been playing/DMing characters of this level for an extended campaign. Guess I'm just not used to the massively high ability scores and bonuses that come from it. I've got a druid PC that will probably never fail a Will save. My players are strange, instead of putting together a stronghold or group of followers or buying hardcore magic items and spells, they've been blowing money on expensive ability score enhancing items almost exclusively. Whatever. I'm just the DM.
illiterate 11-03-03, 10:47 PM	well, if they're having fun, what's your problem? and 30 dex at 19th level? an AC of 30 isn't such a problem against things with CRs in the early 20s. also, if you're having trouble running a game of that magnitude, maybe it's time to run an end of the world plot, immortalize them if they save it, and have them start new characters in the strange new world that results.. or not.
Kalrin 11-03-03, 11:02 PM	heh.... Try my Enchanter, Keldor the Incredibly Annoying... he was only level 12, but he could throw out a Heightened (6th) Hold Person with a DC of 28.... At Level 20 I think it'd be around 33 or so at least... .
Rabe 11-04-03, 05:48 AM	Dont worry about stats and an AC of 30 at 19th level, it could be a lot worse (your player does not even have an inherent bonus yet) :) My tanks are running around in an AC of up to 54, when fully buffed, using defending weapons, defensive feats and whatever there is granting a shred of AC (standard AC is 40-45 for them). They have also stats around 24-32 in their primary ability, some even in a second stat. As long as they have fun there is nothing to worry about. The game is just changing again around level 20, which requires some adaptation on our part. Rabe