Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Soichiro Arima 02-06-05, 02:05 PM	I was reading a thread on the General Boards about Charisma scores and that by the core rules a person can have 3 Int, 4 Wis and 18 Cha and still be able to use Diplomacy to convince people of anything. I know that any DM worth their books would give heavy penaties to the character depending on the situation they are trying to use the skill in if not then not allow a build like that in the first place. However my the core rules there is nothing keeping a bad DM from still allowing it by RAW. I belive there needs to be some kind of rules to deal with this. Also I was thinking about the relationship between Str and Con. You can have an personwith Str 18 and Con 8. How could they have ever reached that level of strenght with such low endurence, its just not how the body works. Likewise someone could have Con 18 and Str 8. How could they have so much physical reilence but such low musucle mass? Again, the body just doesnt work that way. I came up with this set of rules to deal with this problem. Firstly these do not apply to stats modifed by race, in those cases the bodies are designed that way however if the racial mod brings it to or past the limit it cannot go any further afterwards. Secondly temporary magic and psionic effects can push it past the boundery but only for the durnation of the effect, the effect causes the body to function beyond its normal abilites and afterwards is temporarily burntout. Permanent magical and psionic effects can push the ability score past the limit becuase it causes damage if no compensation is made with additional magical/psionic effects or only used as long as the spell used to create the item would last based on caster level of the items maker at the time of making. If it is used for longer it distabilise either the bodies matablizm or causes mental damage to the creature and they take permanent (only wish can restore) damage to the score(s) thats to low. This damage is 1 point per hour of over use. Str and Con must be within 3 bonus/penalty steps of eachother. So a Human fighter with Str +4 must have atleast Con +1 and visa versa. An Elf fighter with Str +4 only needs Con +0 but can go no lower. If the Human fighter takes 2 points of Con damage or drain is Str score is lowered to +3 until the damage or drain is repaired. Int, Wis and Cha must all be within 3 bonus/penalty steps of eachother. So a Human Wizard with Int +4 must have atleast Wis +1 and Cha +1. A Dwarf Wizard however can have Int +4, Wis +1 and Cha +0 but no lower. If the Human wizard takes 2 points of Wis or Cha damage or drain they must make a Will save (DC 10 + total bonus to mental stats not including penaties + the differnce between the origonal stat and new lower stat) every hour or permanetly loose enouph of the other ability scores to make it balenced again until the damage or drain is repaired. The physical and mental penalties above only apply if the drain or damage causes an inbalence so say a human cleric has Int +2, Wis +4 and Cha +2 and takes the damage and his Cha is now +1 no negative effect occer. So what does everybody think? I like them and plan on using them for now on of cause but wonder if anyone else would use them.
murte 02-06-05, 02:23 PM	First it's a game. Second, not only are all of your examples valid, there are several life examples to boot. Stalin was a moron, but he had a way of "convincing" his people. Disease or accidents can have a tremendous toll on the body. Take a parapalegic, their arm, chest, and back strength actually improves, but their overall health has been hampered. HIV is probally a better example of a crippled health with a strong body. I guess you plan on havign point buy, because one never knows what the dice will do, and it would really suck telling a player they couldn't arrange their stats how they wanted just because of a HR which has little basis.
allenchan 02-06-05, 02:27 PM	So what does everybody think? I like them and plan on using them for now on of cause but wonder if anyone else would use them. Nope, wouldn't use it. Doesnt strike me as being a big deal.
Soichiro Arima 02-06-05, 02:33 PM	First it's a game. Second, not only are all of your examples valid, there are several life examples to boot. Stalin was a moron, but he had a way of "convincing" his people. Disease or accidents can have a tremendous toll on the body. Take a parapalegic, their arm, chest, and back strength actually improves, but their overall health has been hampered. HIV is probally a better example of a crippled health with a strong body. I guess you plan on havign point buy, because one never knows what the dice will do, and it would really suck telling a player they couldn't arrange their stats how they wanted just because of a HR which has little basis. Stalin didn't use his Charisma score or abilities to be "convincing" though, people knew that they better listen and thats that. As far as the Disease thing goes dont get me started. I've never been a fan of 6 stats, I would personaly like 30 stats that were more spesific than the ones we have now that cover to many things at once. I'm trying to work with an nonperfect system.
Guy Humual 02-06-05, 02:50 PM	I'm afraid I disagree with your argument. Low Int and Wis with high Cha makes the character a moron, a likeable moron, but a moron none the less. This character is unlikely to come up with elaborate lies, but when it comes to shifting people’s perceptions, most people will find the idiot too adorable to hate. The idea of low Con with high Str isn’t impossible in my mind either. I think your putting to much stock into the meaning of the numbers. Are high level fighters really meatier then their lower level counter parts? Remember this is a game, for fun, it’s not a real life simulator. Here’s the thing about the rules: They’re like those 3D paintings from the 90s, you know the ones where you had to get let your eyes go out of focus to see the image? Well the rules are like that. You need to un-focus your mind.