About level adjustment [Archive] - Wizards Community

About level adjustment [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Animorphic
03-10-06, 07:01 PM So I have a problem with level adjustments.

What is it? The ECL (does that stand for Effective Character level?) for a minotaur is +2, so i naturally think that for a new character, you add the level adjustment to your level, and that's how high the level of the other members of your party is.

My DM said no, it's from CR. so i have to calculate what level adjustment +2 for CR is. So my question is, what the hell?

If the function of CR is what he says it is, what is level adjustment for? Is he wrong?
OGS-Remix
03-10-06, 07:08 PM LA adjustment is used to calculate ECL or Effective Character Level. The equation is Racial HD + Class levels + LA = ECL.

Your ECL should be equal to the normal levels in your party. So a minotaur with 1 level of fighter is: 6 + 1 + 2 = 9 ECL and should adventure with 9th level characters.

CR has nothing to do with LA, so your DM is wrong.
A_monk_00
03-10-06, 07:08 PM Your Effective Character Level is racial hit die plus level adjustment.

In the case of a Minotaur, it would be 6 (racial hit die) + 2 (level adjustment) = 8 ECL.
Zombayz1
03-10-06, 07:09 PM OK, ECL is Effective Character Level (ie: ECL 8= Character level 8).
You add the Hit Dice and the Level ajustment together and then you get the ECL!

So both you and your DM were a little off.
Novacat
03-10-06, 10:23 PM This subject is, from my observations, the single most misunderstood mechanic of D&D. I have no confusions about it, and haven't for a very long time, but it seems like half the players of this game just don't get it. Even when trying to explain it to people, I get the feeling their brains just aren't designed to understand it. Not sure why that is.
WCH
03-11-06, 12:38 AM This subject is, from my observations, the single most misunderstood mechanic of D&D. I have no confusions about it, and haven't for a very long time, but it seems like half the players of this game just don't get it. Even when trying to explain it to people, I get the feeling their brains just aren't designed to understand it. Not sure why that is.
Ditto. Seems straightforward to me, but my players seem to have trouble with it. :confused:

http://www.taoofgeek.com/archive.php?date=20051115 -- here's an example of a webcomic where the rule is completely misunderstood, too. Granted, the author doesn't play 3.5, but she just assumed on seeing "level adjustment" in the description that it meant you got more levels. :eek:
monkeyintux
03-11-06, 01:20 AM Ditto. Seems straightforward to me, but my players seem to have trouble with it. :confused:

Geez same here, I remember joining in a game that had been running for 6 or so sessions long. The DM was inexperienced and was running one of those rediculous "everyone can be anything you want" games (I didnt know this till I was playing.)
So here I am surrounded by 2 vampires,a half dragon, and a weretiger rogue. :blink:
The rogue starts bragging how he killed a NPC rogue that was 5 lvs higher than he was in one round. :uh-huh:
Turns out the DM didnt know how the ECL of a lycanthrope works and only did the +2 LA for the weretiger without adding the 5-6 racial HD of the tiger. So the weretiger was ripping through everything that they came across. This same group witnessed the DM allowing the same weretiger to GRAPPLE a red dragon 3 size catagories higher than him. Thats a different storty though.
Nom
03-11-06, 05:19 AM The easiest way to think of level adjustment is a handicap.

You're actually level 4, but because of your extra racial abilities you have a +2 LA (handicap). Thus, I'm going to treat you as level 6 with regards to XP awards and how much XP you need to gain a level.
scott644
03-11-06, 07:33 AM Ok, evberybody's talked about what LA is. Now about CR. CR is the guide to the effective power level a monster has against a balanced party of four PC's. In other words, a CR 4 monster, is considered a resonable challenge for a party of four level 4 PC's. CR is NOT LA; items that adjust CR do so with an eye toward making the monster more challenging in the encounter with the party, while items that adjust LA do so with an eye toward overall playability. This is why the two items are different.

The problem in the OP is the DM is confusing the CR for the ECL - which is a simple misunderstanding.
Animorphic
03-11-06, 02:01 PM Thank you. You've all been a big help.

The easiest way to think of level adjustment is a handicap.

And yes, Nom, i knew it was a handicap. But thank you anyways. :D
Animorphic
03-11-06, 09:59 PM Oh wait and one more thing. What is advancement?

I was recently trying to create a minotaur of legend. and i was just curious what the ECL is. But the monster of legend template is. All i got was the advancement is "same as base creature". Help?
runestar
03-11-06, 11:19 PM Monster of legend is +7LA, so a legend minotaur is ECL15. :)
monkeyintux
03-11-06, 11:29 PM Oh wait and one more thing. What is advancement?

I was recently trying to create a minotaur of legend. and i was just curious what the ECL is. But the monster of legend template is. All i got was the advancement is "same as base creature". Help?

In the back of the MM you will find the rules for advancing a monster, be it HD size BA and so on. Also usually in the monsters stats towards the bottom it will tell you how to advance it, basically if you want to make it bigger than the one in the entry. Like an extra big wolf or so. So use the advancement rules for whatever creature you add the template to if you want to make the creature bigger.
Sounds more complicated than it is, I think you are thinking to hard on this.
scott644
03-12-06, 12:49 AM Oh wait and one more thing. What is advancement?

I was recently trying to create a minotaur of legend. and i was just curious what the ECL is. But the monster of legend template is. All i got was the advancement is "same as base creature". Help?

Advancement is how the creature typically advances to become bigger and nastier. Say for a dragon, they tend to advance in dragon racial HD and gain size as they do so. So in the case of the minotaur of legend, you'd look up the base creature, see how it advances, and simply use that.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Animorphic 03-10-06, 07:01 PM	So I have a problem with level adjustments. What is it? The ECL (does that stand for Effective Character level?) for a minotaur is +2, so i naturally think that for a new character, you add the level adjustment to your level, and that's how high the level of the other members of your party is. My DM said no, it's from CR. so i have to calculate what level adjustment +2 for CR is. So my question is, what the hell? If the function of CR is what he says it is, what is level adjustment for? Is he wrong?
OGS-Remix 03-10-06, 07:08 PM	LA adjustment is used to calculate ECL or Effective Character Level. The equation is Racial HD + Class levels + LA = ECL. Your ECL should be equal to the normal levels in your party. So a minotaur with 1 level of fighter is: 6 + 1 + 2 = 9 ECL and should adventure with 9th level characters. CR has nothing to do with LA, so your DM is wrong.
A_monk_00 03-10-06, 07:08 PM	Your Effective Character Level is racial hit die plus level adjustment. In the case of a Minotaur, it would be 6 (racial hit die) + 2 (level adjustment) = 8 ECL.
Zombayz1 03-10-06, 07:09 PM	OK, ECL is Effective Character Level (ie: ECL 8= Character level 8). You add the Hit Dice and the Level ajustment together and then you get the ECL! So both you and your DM were a little off.
Novacat 03-10-06, 10:23 PM	This subject is, from my observations, the single most misunderstood mechanic of D&D. I have no confusions about it, and haven't for a very long time, but it seems like half the players of this game just don't get it. Even when trying to explain it to people, I get the feeling their brains just aren't designed to understand it. Not sure why that is.
WCH 03-11-06, 12:38 AM	This subject is, from my observations, the single most misunderstood mechanic of D&D. I have no confusions about it, and haven't for a very long time, but it seems like half the players of this game just don't get it. Even when trying to explain it to people, I get the feeling their brains just aren't designed to understand it. Not sure why that is. Ditto. Seems straightforward to me, but my players seem to have trouble with it. :confused: http://www.taoofgeek.com/archive.php?date=20051115 -- here's an example of a webcomic where the rule is completely misunderstood, too. Granted, the author doesn't play 3.5, but she just assumed on seeing "level adjustment" in the description that it meant you got more levels. :eek:
monkeyintux 03-11-06, 01:20 AM	Ditto. Seems straightforward to me, but my players seem to have trouble with it. :confused: Geez same here, I remember joining in a game that had been running for 6 or so sessions long. The DM was inexperienced and was running one of those rediculous "everyone can be anything you want" games (I didnt know this till I was playing.) So here I am surrounded by 2 vampires,a half dragon, and a weretiger rogue. :blink: The rogue starts bragging how he killed a NPC rogue that was 5 lvs higher than he was in one round. :uh-huh: Turns out the DM didnt know how the ECL of a lycanthrope works and only did the +2 LA for the weretiger without adding the 5-6 racial HD of the tiger. So the weretiger was ripping through everything that they came across. This same group witnessed the DM allowing the same weretiger to GRAPPLE a red dragon 3 size catagories higher than him. Thats a different storty though.
Nom 03-11-06, 05:19 AM	The easiest way to think of level adjustment is a handicap. You're actually level 4, but because of your extra racial abilities you have a +2 LA (handicap). Thus, I'm going to treat you as level 6 with regards to XP awards and how much XP you need to gain a level.
scott644 03-11-06, 07:33 AM	Ok, evberybody's talked about what LA is. Now about CR. CR is the guide to the effective power level a monster has against a balanced party of four PC's. In other words, a CR 4 monster, is considered a resonable challenge for a party of four level 4 PC's. CR is NOT LA; items that adjust CR do so with an eye toward making the monster more challenging in the encounter with the party, while items that adjust LA do so with an eye toward overall playability. This is why the two items are different. The problem in the OP is the DM is confusing the CR for the ECL - which is a simple misunderstanding.
Animorphic 03-11-06, 02:01 PM	Thank you. You've all been a big help. The easiest way to think of level adjustment is a handicap. And yes, Nom, i knew it was a handicap. But thank you anyways. :D
Animorphic 03-11-06, 09:59 PM	Oh wait and one more thing. What is advancement? I was recently trying to create a minotaur of legend. and i was just curious what the ECL is. But the monster of legend template is. All i got was the advancement is "same as base creature". Help?
runestar 03-11-06, 11:19 PM	Monster of legend is +7LA, so a legend minotaur is ECL15. :)
monkeyintux 03-11-06, 11:29 PM	Oh wait and one more thing. What is advancement? I was recently trying to create a minotaur of legend. and i was just curious what the ECL is. But the monster of legend template is. All i got was the advancement is "same as base creature". Help? In the back of the MM you will find the rules for advancing a monster, be it HD size BA and so on. Also usually in the monsters stats towards the bottom it will tell you how to advance it, basically if you want to make it bigger than the one in the entry. Like an extra big wolf or so. So use the advancement rules for whatever creature you add the template to if you want to make the creature bigger. Sounds more complicated than it is, I think you are thinking to hard on this.
scott644 03-12-06, 12:49 AM	Oh wait and one more thing. What is advancement? I was recently trying to create a minotaur of legend. and i was just curious what the ECL is. But the monster of legend template is. All i got was the advancement is "same as base creature". Help? Advancement is how the creature typically advances to become bigger and nastier. Say for a dragon, they tend to advance in dragon racial HD and gain size as they do so. So in the case of the minotaur of legend, you'd look up the base creature, see how it advances, and simply use that.